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Post by The Doctor on Nov 20, 2007 20:02:09 GMT
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Post by legios on Nov 20, 2007 20:41:30 GMT
Ah, you beat me to it there. I am absolutely gobsmacked by this. To entrust data of this sort to even the internal mail in a non-trackable form.... that goes beyond the normal realms of stupidity. Some kind of special category like "aggravated stupidity" is required here I think. It is a very elementary error of information security, and one that puts 25 million identities out there somewhere in unknown hands. For a department of a government that keeps telling us how vigilant we all need to be in this "time of increased threat" to drop the ball this badly passes into the realms of black farce it really does. Karl |
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Nov 20, 2007 21:20:58 GMT
Are Labour reaching for some kind of new record for going from "comfortable majority" to "unelectable"? Odds are the discs are down the side of a post bin in a TNT processing centre somewhere, and as such completely outside the government's direct control, but the tories will milk this for everything it's worth and a damn sight more besides. It's like they're cursed.
Mind you, both opposition parties declared that it makes the case for compulsory ID cards weaker, so at least some good has come of it. I look forward to tomorrow's newspaper headlines with bated breath.
-Nick
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Post by legios on Nov 20, 2007 22:03:07 GMT
Mind you, both opposition parties declared that it makes the case for compulsory ID cards weaker, so at least some good has come of it. I look forward to tomorrow's newspaper headlines with bated breath. -Nick That doesn't mean they would vote against them in an actual Commons vote. Especially as any such vote would come with the added subtext of "If you vote against the bill we will paint you as being soft on terrorism come the next election". ID Cards are a complicated issue - "soft on evil terrorists" is an simple catch-phrase. I fear I tend to think the latter has more influence when it comes to election time. Karl |
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 20, 2007 22:20:19 GMT
Are Labour reaching for some kind of new record for going from "comfortable majority" to "unelectable"? -Nick Seems that way this week when you add the Nothern Rock fiasco on top. -Ralph |
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rurudyne
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Post by rurudyne on Nov 21, 2007 1:25:26 GMT
Since things of this nature happen from time to time, and since even hard drives are dirt cheap these days ... why, oh why does anyone put a whole (insert here) data base on ONE disk?
Speaking as someone who used to segment long WP files on the old Apple IIe (yeah, I'm old) it isn't that hard to keep straight.
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Post by KnightBeat on Nov 21, 2007 12:45:39 GMT
You'd be surprised how often public records are sent through the post. In my previous jobs I was amazed at the amount of public data handled by contractors, that did not follow the procedures required for government departments. Alternatively, you could look for the data on ebay. |
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Cullen
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Post by Cullen on Nov 21, 2007 13:47:47 GMT
I was amazed when I saw the news last night. I mean come on - why would anyone need to send the whole database in the post? Why isn't there secure remote access to it for anyone who needs to view it off site?
In a not-so-related story one of our clients got the CD containing their annual PEP/ISA submission data mixed up with a CD of their holiday snaps. They sent the photos to the Inland Revenue.
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Post by legios on Nov 21, 2007 20:34:58 GMT
I was amazed when I saw the news last night. I mean come on - why would anyone need to send the whole database in the post? Why isn't there secure remote access to it for anyone who needs to view it off site? Given the problems that other major government computer projects seem to run into (mostly due to always accepting the lowest bidder - even when they know from bitter experience that the company in question cannot deliver) then I'm not sure that an attempt to do so would be much more secure. It couldn't however be any less secure than sticking the database in the hands of TNT (they could only have done worse if they had trusted it to UPS). I mean, when we have to transfer sensitive hardcopy data (very rare, but sometimes there is stuff that has to go to our solicitor) we aren't even allowed to put it in the post. It has to be hand-carried and signed for at both ends of the transaction. Even doing that elementary level of security would have been better than what has been done here. In a not-so-related story one of our clients got the CD containing their annual PEP/ISA submission data mixed up with a CD of their holiday snaps. They sent the photos to the Inland Revenue. Heh - I can just imagine the Revenue's reaction - "amusing. Now give us the actual data or we will estimate your tax....." Karl |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Nov 22, 2007 12:40:45 GMT
It's so bloody stupid as to be unbelievable - the mind really boggles sometimes.
Did anyone catch any highlights of the commons debates about it by any chance? Now I hate the Tories - being Scottish it's sort of built in to you - but I shook my head at how much of a twat David Cameron was about it. Now if I was a politician and the opposition had fumbled the ball in such a fashion I would paint myself as the caring individual by continually looking to see what could be done to those affected. A major pr score in anyone's book.
Not so Cameron, he simply decided to mock and deride the government and critique the systems that were in place. No wonder the Tories are bloody unelectable.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 1, 2007 23:25:47 GMT
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rurudyne
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Post by rurudyne on Dec 2, 2007 0:23:54 GMT
"Unencrypted"
That's a word that stands out.
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 2, 2007 8:03:17 GMT
Being a family who's info was on the disk, the Shockprowl household was very angry about the 'lost' disk. Utterly utterly unbelievable. The responsible parties should be properly punished. The person who actually did the deed should be at least sacked, good to see the Director resign (before he was pushed). Ultimately it's the PM himself who should take the rap. This kind of STUPID mistake is unexceptable. Stupid mistakes like this really make me mad. It reflects a generic apathy in todays society. Without being dramatic about it, if I make a mistake at work a patient's condition worsens at best. I, therefore, don't make mistakes. I relay on my training and practiced judgement. I concentrate, I don't leave anything to chance, I'm methodical and consider carefully every discission I make, no matter how small. If I can manage to not make mistakes, surely an administrator, and his management, can instill basic common sense, COMMON SENSE for God's sake, and not sent sensitive information on an unencrypted disk through non-trackable delivery for no apparent reason. This society needs to get a grip of itself. Too many people (present company excluded I'd wager) live and breath apathy (I see it in the NHS all the time also). And the ones that actually WANT to do their jobs well are stopped by endless B.S. Rurudyne's little motto hits the nail right on the head: Obstructicons are everywhere! Sorry if this reads as a rant.
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Dec 2, 2007 13:04:48 GMT
"He said it would also call into question its aim to push through a national identity card scheme. The public would find it hard to back the scheme if government departments could not be trusted with sensitive information, he added."
Bing bing bing bing bing bing! Another nail in the coffin with any luck. As worrying as these reports are, if they end up preventing us pissing billions of pounds against a wall with this blatant play for fundraising disguised as a security measure then it might just work out for the best. Unless families' bank balances start disappearing and the government doesn't offer to cover their losses, of course, but that would be political suicide.
-Nick
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 2, 2007 20:06:04 GMT
I dunno, Gordon Brown's reign so far feels a lot like 'How to do Political Suicide in Ten Easy Steps'.
I've been wondering why I've been wanting to re-watch 'Yes, Prime Minister' recently.
-Ralph
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Post by andrewcrane on Dec 2, 2007 21:20:50 GMT
FWIW, Gordon Brown's always been unpopular amongst CLPs (Constituency Labour Parties) from my experience. Personally, there's no way I would have voted for him if Labour had a leadership election, and I wonder how much Gordo went and stitched things up behind the scenes...
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Dec 2, 2007 23:39:01 GMT
It does seem like a number of scandals that have been known about for variable lengths of time are all coming out at once. The signals picked up by my tinfoil hat reckon it's not a coincidence.
-Nick
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Post by panderson on Dec 3, 2007 12:53:47 GMT
Indeed, my itchy toes have the same feeling
I feel the press were all keyed for an election for xmas and when did not get it they went on a feeding rampage
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 17, 2007 17:01:52 GMT
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Post by legios on Dec 17, 2007 22:31:31 GMT
"She said the details were not sent in the post - but the hard drive had not been found where it had been expected to be, in the "secure facility" in Iowa." So... they managed to misplace a hard-drive and the data contained on it...... If this wasn't actual peoples personal data this would almost take on farcical proportions. Karl |
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Post by rurudyne on Dec 18, 2007 15:21:59 GMT
Look, I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist of anything ... but what do you folks think about the notion that someone might be targeting public records for theft?
It may sound far-fetched but is it really impossible? There has been a bit too much 'carelessness' to go around (such as when our VA records were lost).
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 18, 2007 17:17:55 GMT
Putting my tin-foil hat on, it is interesting that a clutch of 'Government loses people's data' stories have sprung up in a short timescale. Either this level of incompetance is a suddenly new phenomenon or some parties (possibly sections of the media?) have gone fishing.
Or it's just life.
-Ralph
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Post by rurudyne on Dec 18, 2007 18:55:59 GMT
Well, you can't go fishing in a pond with no fish. Unless you're Colonel Jack O'Niell, but then he never lost data in the post on SG-1.  |
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Post by legios on Dec 18, 2007 20:27:05 GMT
Well, you can't go fishing in a pond with no fish. Well, you can but you won't catch anything. (Which is sometimes the point of fishing). However, I would agree that it is possible that these things have been occuring previously but weren't "a story", in which case they wouldn't have been reported. But when hacks smell blood... now that is a different matter. True, but as Jack only had a vague approximation of an understanding of what data was....... :-) Karl |
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Post by gloriana on Dec 18, 2007 21:28:12 GMT
I would put money on someone trying for a no confidence vote in the government. Put it like this; the people who actually performed the act of losing the data will be removed from post. The Data Protection Act - which this government actually instigated - is being trampled on.
Rowan
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Post by rurudyne on Dec 19, 2007 19:02:07 GMT
Unless you're Colonel Jack O'Niell, but then he never lost data in the post on SG-1. True, but as Jack only had a vague approximation of an understanding of what data was....... :-) Karl Good point, he'd probably use the CDs as drink coasters anyway. |
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Post by legios on Dec 19, 2007 20:22:56 GMT
Aye, there about the right size to take a bottle of beer quite nicely.
Karl
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 23, 2007 12:00:03 GMT
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Post by rurudyne on Dec 23, 2007 16:59:26 GMT
Here's a thought: until only recently, relatively speaking, it has been much harder to misplace stuff like this.
The solution is obvious: bring back the early transportable computers (rather than lap tops) with their floppy disk for government services in all countries. Not only will they be able to loose less data in one go but carrying those things around should help with their physical conditioning too.
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Dec 23, 2007 17:32:14 GMT
Ah, that suggestion brings back happy memories of the latter days of my being an Amiga owner...
"Indiana Jones and the Chicken of Disappointment is available on 45 1Mb floppy disks or, for all you early adopters out there, one CD-ROM!"
No wonder game boxes were bigger back then.
-Nick
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