Bank charges

[The Doctor]

newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7178766.stm

Banks are wankers! Or banks charge what they have to in order to provide a service? Have your say!

-Ralph

[Stomski]

Erm... T&C? You sign it, you pay it.

[Gav]

My last job was working for a bank, and to be honest it totally changed the way i look at bank charges. Not only are they nescessary, but should provide a deterrant to people using money they don't have. It's all in the T&C. I spent all day arguing with people over this. Argh!

[Dark Stranger]

Oh man, I've been sitting pissed off all day over this, over the past 3 months I've been stung for over £300 of charges, all connected to going over my overdraft (half of that total was in one day due to my wages going in late and 5 Paypal payments bringing me over my limit).

I hope this case gets rectified soon. Bollocks to banks.

[Stomski]

Erm... Who's fault is it your wages went in late?

You'll say it's your employers, but if they don't guarantee your wages will be paid on a certain day then you should take steps to prevent this from happening.

Or of course it could be the systems... Either way, you now know that the system fails and you can make sure you have a buffer there around pay day just in case.

I feel sorry for the bank, having to cover you for money you don't have. To be honest, it's nice of them!

[Dark Stranger]

Sure, but stinging me £30 per occurrence isn't. For a £1.33 Paypal payemnt? Fuck them. Thay'd have been better off refusing tp process it, but why bother when they can get big fees out of you?

[Stomski]

Is there not an option so that they do refuse it for you?

[Gav]

Not in every bank's case. With mine, there was no option unless it's a huge ammount. For smaller ammounts it's automatic. Only if it's going to push you waaaaay over your OD limit do they ever refuse it. Then they still charge you.

[The Doctor]

It's easy to say 'read the terms and conditions'. Of course it is. Sign up for a service, you have to accept what goes with it. And yes, there is personal responsibility. To generalise, I would assume most folk would not want to go into unauthorised overdrafts, etc.

But Real Life doesn't always work like that.

Not everyone has an income coming in to their account that allows for much of a 'buffer' if anything unexpected happens, ie a big bill etc. It's very very easy to get caught short. I'm thinking specifically of people on very low incomes, ie on benefits, which I have five years working experience of dealing with. If the money someone has coming in is small, then suddenly the value of a pound can seem like ten pounds. I knew many many conscientious individuals who, despite trying very hard to keep their account in balance, sometimes went over it by a small amount, just due to the mind-numbing reality of trying to live on small amounts of money. If you are on benefits and go overdrawn by a pound or two, you can be hit by charges of £30 or more. Which you can't pay due to your low income, which results in more charges, etc. This is penalising the more vulnerable members of society. I have seen the human side of the suffering and stress this causes and it can be devastating. I strongly believe individual circumstances should be looked at. Just because someone is overdrawn should not automatically result in heavy charges without consent. There's a world of difference between someone being overdrawn because they don't give a toss and life just dropping a ton of shit on someone. Let's show some compassion. Let's show some give and take. This does happen sometimes, but rarely, in my experience.

Something else to bear in mind: there are an awful lot of folk out there with mental health issues that can result in behaviour that could be described as being a bit 'hyper' and not entirely rational. Ever popped in to you bank and been asked if you want a loan or credit card? If you are well and rational, you can say 'no'. If you are mentally unwell and irrational, you may not be able to say 'no'. It's more common than is documented in the media for people to run up thousands of pounds of debt to banks while desperately unwell and be completely unaware of it until they are well. Again, let us show compassion. If someone is under medical care and it can be documented they where not of sound mind while running up charges etc, then the human thing to do is just drop the damn charges. These kind of problems can also happen for people with learning difficulties who may not understand what they are getting into. Come to think of it, do you understand all the terms and conditions of bank charges? I know I don't, and I'm educated to degree level. Another thing: I am a student. I have no income. The bank knows this. And yet my bank is often trying to sign me up for loans, credit cards, etc even though they know I have no possible way to pay them off. That strikes me as demented. And let me tell you, when I have down days and am depressed at my financial status, I have been tempted.

So, to sum up: banks are not evil. They provide a valuable service. I could not live without access to a bank account. My current bank (RBS) has mostly provided a very good service since I switched to them last year. But let's look at the human side of bank charges and not be so quick to judge. I don't expect banks to have detailed knowledge of the benefits system (though that would be a good idea) or to have mental health training (no, hang on, that's a good idea too) but to be less punitive and to listen to their customers. That's all.

-Ralph

[Gav]

I think both parties need to be better informed. In my last job it was my specific role to speak with customers regarding their bank charges.

My bank (Abbey) was the first to recently introduce a new system which charged certain ammounts based on the ammount you went over. If i remember correctly if you went over by less than a fiver it was alright, and it went up from there. Which is a lot fairer.

Banks do have Charge specialist departments where you can appeal. Usually they'll have a system where they can give you a certain ammount off your charges as a goodwill gesture if you plead your case.

A lot of times i'd intervened to make sure people weren't entering this cycle of debt charges can cause. Remember, it's impossible to monitor every account, and mostly charges are added autmomatically by the cold heart of the machine so it's easy to get caught up. If people were genuinely willing to accept help in better managing of their account then we were happy to get them back on their feet charges wise.

Although i hear bad things about certain banks. Some ARE evil!

Like Decepti-bank!

[Dark Stranger]

Well, on a lighter note, I just got every charge I complained about refunded to me in full! I complained to the account specialist (as I knew they'd put me in the Hold pile if they thought I was simply trying to reclaim bank charges...which I kinda was), and they were very speedy about it.

[grahamthomson]

Glad you got the charges refunded. A lot of banks (in my experience) do refund where they can. I suppose they'd rather do that than lose your custom.

[The Doctor]

That was not my experience with the Clydesdale Bank. After numerous problems (including losing money due to their repeated cock-ups and getting into enormous hassle with my letting agency/landlord after the bank fucked up my standing orders several months in a row), I said I was close to taking my business elsewhere unless I received an apology and/or a meeting with the manager to discuss my grievances. I just got a shrug in response so I did indeed take my business elsewhere. I had been a life-long customer, which I pointed out: just got another shrug and a "huh?". Been with the Royal Bank of Scotland for about a year now and been very happy with their customer service thus far.

-Ralph

[Dark Stranger]

No excuse at all for brute ignorance like that.

[The Doctor]

True.

It was the last straw. I could take incompetance up to a certain level but poor manners just presses my 'destruct' button. Reading through policies, etc, I am under no illusion that the RBS is any more morally 'good' than any other bank, but I have found their manners and general attitude to be impeccable and they learned early on not to try to sell me things I did not want.

I also found dealing with them in a profesional basis as a support worker for learning disabilities folk a few years ago to be excellent.

-Ralph