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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 9, 2011 13:42:42 GMT
As Sentinel is about to kill Optimus, Megatron runs in, shooting Sentinel repeatedly, and says something like "All I wanted was to be in charge. What would you be without me, Prime?" The one-armed Optimus gets up, says "Let's find out," kills Megatron and then finishes off Sentinel. (Feel free to edit anything I've got wrong.) Which Prime was Megatron talking to? Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 10, 2011 18:57:57 GMT
Going by the book, Megatron is talking to Optimus. -Ralph |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 10, 2011 19:24:05 GMT
Yeah, I know. Be interesting to see if there are any DVD extras to shed light on the differences between the book's ending and the final cut of the film, and at what stage they decided to change it. I wonder what stage of film development they got to with the first ending before Bay or whoever decided they didn't like it.
Martin
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Post by blueshift on Jul 10, 2011 20:04:59 GMT
How does the book end exactly?
The sheer suddenness and brutality of Megatron's death makes me think it must have been a late addition.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 10, 2011 20:11:01 GMT
How does the book end exactly? I'll let someone who's read the book itself rather than a summary of it answer that. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 10, 2011 20:11:51 GMT
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Post by blueshift on Jul 10, 2011 20:17:34 GMT
From Aesir's review:
Wow, that's... completely different isn't it? And pretty much solves every problem I had with it (Sentinel is killed in battle, Prime doesn't surprise-murder Megatron). I wonder why they changed it so much?
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 11, 2011 13:25:44 GMT
That's a totally different ending! Incredible difference!
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 11, 2011 17:45:50 GMT
When I saw the scene I had no doubt that Megs was talking to Optimus. Op seemed surprised that Megs had saved him. It was a 'moment' between them. But now I need to see it again to make sure, 'cos it kinda makes sense for Megatron to be saying it to Sentinel. Oh what a to-do!
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Post by legios on Jul 11, 2011 20:33:23 GMT
When I saw the film I assumed that Megatron was talking to Optimus. Mostly because the line, as presented in the film, feels like it is talking about the way that the long war with the Decepticons has made Optimus the killing machine that he is. Without Megatron Sentinel Prime is.... still pretty much who he was... but would Optimus have become what he is without the long decades fighting the Decepticons and questing for the Allspark? I don't think that the line really pays off if it is read as addressed to Sentinel.... But that's just the way it feels to me. Karl |
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Post by jameso on Jul 12, 2011 2:05:42 GMT
I think that professional movie scripts can't really be interpreted like everyday conversation. If character a says something and character b replies, unless it's obviously not intended that b replies, you have to assume that a was talking to b.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 12, 2011 6:34:05 GMT
I realise I'm in a minority, but I really did find the scene flowed better taking the line as addressed to Sentinel. Never mind that Optimus replied, it was Sentinel that Megatron was shooting as he said it. Characters in stories do tend to say something to taunt their ally when they betray them and shoot them in the back (as Sentinel did to Ironhide). Megatron owed Sentinel an explanation for turning on him, and that explanation was that he wanted to be in charge. "What would you be without me?" meant "What chance would you have to dominate Earth and use the Space Bridge without my army? I'm the biggest contributor to this plan - I deserve to be in charge."
in this film, it was Sentinel who taunted Megatron and molested his head wound, and Carly called Megatron Sentinel's bitch. It was Sentinel Megatron wanted to prove his superiority/worth to.
Sentinel was the main Autobot war leader and Megatron's opposite number throughout the war up until the Ark was lost. Only then did Optimus become Megatron's foe - for perhaps a very brief time.
Actually - and remember I'm talking purely about the movies on their own, without any of the supporting books and comics - just going by the movies, it seems likely to me that Megatron went missing and crashed on Earth _before_ the Ark was lost / crashed (unless the Ark took a really long time to get to Earth). Or they were lost at the same time, since they were supposed to meet up on Earth. So Optimus Prime became leader after Megatron was lost, and never fought him as leader until the end of the first film.
I'll admit I took the line to be aimed at Optimus the first time I saw the film, because my mind is programmed to take 'Prime' as short for 'Optimus Prime'. But it just jarred too much with the way Optimus reacted by attacking him, which I felt was out of character even for Movie Optimus. Optimus' reaction only ceased to jar with me when it became him wading into a leadership dispute between two unrepentant villains.
Martin
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Nigel
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 5,098
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Post by Nigel on Jul 15, 2011 9:30:19 GMT
Having watched it a second time, it does actually appear that he's talking to Sentinel, although the lines do fit for either Prime. It doesn't help that he seems to be looking at neither of them; as he says the lines, his gaze turns away from Sentinel but doesn't appear to move all the way onto Optimus.
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
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Post by The Huff on Jul 15, 2011 10:46:56 GMT
Yep - watched the film last night (3rd time I've seen it) and was looking out for this and I agree with Nigel. Megatron is looking at Sentinel as he says it. Makes more sense to me also if he's talking to Sentinel.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 15, 2011 16:18:30 GMT
Aha! I'm not in such bad company then!
One thing's conclusive, the fact that opinion is divided means it was certainly poor writing to have him call someone 'Prime' when there were two Primes present.
Unless of course it was always _intended_ to be ambiguous...?
Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 16, 2011 19:38:21 GMT
Hmm, nice thought, Mart', but I fear you give Mr Bay and his writers too much credit! ;D
Who do folkes think Megatron should have been talking to?
Personally I think Prime. Oh, sorry, I mean Optimus. 'Cos Optimus was surprised (maybe) that Megatron had saved him from death at Sentinel's hands.
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