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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 19, 2012 22:16:48 GMT
I know I've probably done this thread before, in fact I'm sure I have, but this kind of question really interests me. It's your favorite character, not toy. Everyone must answer!
1 Prowl
2 Shockwave
3 Soundwave
4 Skids (G1 thankyou very much)
5 Terrorcons (yes I know this a bit of a cheat, 5 characters in 1, but I love them as a unit, as a team.)
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 19, 2012 23:11:02 GMT
Blot.
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Dec 20, 2012 2:22:06 GMT
This will not be a short list, because there are waaaay too many series and characters to make it a short list. But I'll do my best. If I like him/her just because I do, then I won't bother with explinations.
G1/G2:
Thundercracker- No fiction ever bothered to portray him true to character until unfortunately All Hail Megatron. But I always loved how complex he was. Typically arrogant and egotistical, and saw himself as superior to anyone who can't fly. But at the same time unconvenced of the decepticon cause. Even moreso, can't stand when innocent bistanders get hurt because of the war.
Scorponok- While having one of the best toys of the toyline, it was his portrayal in Marvel Comics that really won me to him.
Grimlock- Uncle Bob and Simon Furman define this character for me. Not only did he do something Optimus never could (Get the Ark out of the ground and back into the air), he also grew enough to become Optimus's rightful second in command. (Screw you, Hotrod, Magnus, and Prowl)
Ratbat- Because he's Ratbat! The least likely decepticon to become leader! And he made... The Carwash of DOOOOOOM!
Skullgrin- Another one that own's his presence on the list because of his appearance in Marvel.
Bludgeon- aaaaaand again, Marvel.
Nightbeat- Aaaaaand one more time.
Flare-up- She's Pinkie Pie, if Pinkie Pie were a transformer and loved explosives.
Kup
Wheeljack
Perceptor
Beast Era:
Cheetor- Hes a cheetah. I love Cheetahs.
Dinobot- Do I really need to explain why?
Megatron- He is the best villain TF has ever produced.
Waspinator
Silverbolt
Blackarachnia
Tarantulas
Inferno
Jetstorm
Thrust
RiD:
Skybite- Because he's probably the most fun character in the franchise.
UT:
Over-run- Another obscure character Furman turned into pure awesome.
Animated:
Prowl
Bulkhead
Ratchet
Blackarachnia
Arcee
Blurr
Sentinel Prime
Blitzwing
Lugnut
Movies:
Barricade
Prime:
Starscream- In the first season he was on his way to rivalling BW Megatron in being an effective and awesome villain. Second season he was too silly though.
Arcee & Jack- Two in one, I know. But I feel they work much better off each other than alone.
Dreadwing- Was on his way to becoming the next Dinobot.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 20, 2012 5:41:05 GMT
In my view, a character is a fictional living being, not lots of different fictional living beings with the same name and roughly the same appearance, but with different personalities and biographies in different fictional universes. So I'm sorry to say, Mr Shockprowl, that Prowl is not a character. (Nor is Shockwave or Soundwave.) He's a range of characters.
So... _which_ Prowl is your favourite character?
And yes, I'm just stalling because I will have to give my own answer to your question some thought. But I have long train journeys today. When I'm not sleeping or working, I will spend them in contemplation and come back to you.
Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 20, 2012 17:15:55 GMT
Excellent point, Martin, you are quite correct old boy. I should have been specific.
It is the Generation 1 incarnations that are on my list.
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 20, 2012 17:20:37 GMT
I was specifically specific about Skids because I didn't want to be remotely associated with that God-aweful movie-vers character who defiles the name.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 20, 2012 17:22:13 GMT
Excellent point, Martin, you are quite correct old boy. I should have been specific. It is the Generation 1 incarnations that are on my list. Ah, but which version of Generation 1? -Ralph |
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Post by Benn on Dec 20, 2012 18:09:29 GMT
I'm going to give shout outs to Animated Prowl and Beast Wars Rattrap. They're the first ones who spring to mind. I'll have to think about G1 a little harder, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 19:04:31 GMT
My favorite characters are Barricade,Ironhide and Megatron.Beast Wars-Dinobot(one of the complex characters in my opinion).
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 20, 2012 19:32:49 GMT
Excellent point, Martin, you are quite correct old boy. I should have been specific. It is the Generation 1 incarnations that are on my list. Ah, but which version of Generation 1? -Ralph Aaargh! Ok, which version of G1... Prowl, his tech-specs, most of his appearances in the Marvel Comic, most of his appearances in IDW, with Mr Roche writing the perfect Prowl. Not his limited appearances in the cartoon and film. Shockwave, tech-specs, all comic versions. Not cartoon or film. Soundwave, all G1 versions including tech-specs. Skids, tech-specs, Marvel Comic (has he been in IDW yet?). Terrorcons, tech-specs and their short appearance in Marvel. |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 20, 2012 19:52:33 GMT
Ah, but IDW Prowl is not the Marvel Prowl, and so on.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 20, 2012 20:23:18 GMT
AAAARRRGGHHH!!!!!
I LIKE THEM BOTH!!! ROCHE'S THE BEST!!!
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 20, 2012 20:55:45 GMT
But they're not the same person. They exist in two entirely seperate fictional universes!
-Ralph
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Post by Marc Graham on Dec 20, 2012 21:23:41 GMT
Easy.....
Bumblebee.
If you need more:
Optimus prime, Grimlock, Jazz......... Maybe Starscream.
Each was a definitive character type, brave scout, courageous leader, uncouth brawn, smooth special ops and scheming traitor....
...got it all.
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 20, 2012 21:34:22 GMT
But they're not the same person. They exist in two entirely seperate fictional universes! -Ralph NNNNEEEEEEAAAAARRRRRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 21, 2012 7:10:54 GMT
Prowl, his tech-specs, most of his appearances in the Marvel Comic, most of his appearances in IDW, with Mr Roche writing the perfect Prowl. Not his limited appearances in the cartoon and film. I suppose that'll do if you think they're pretty consistent and coallesce into a single guy called Prowl in your mind. But I don't think you could call Marvel and IDW Ultra Magnus remotely the same person, nor Marvel and IDW Skids, Cyclonus, etc. It would seem pretty impossible to me, however much I loved the 'brand' of 'Cyclonus', or however identical they look, to call them one 'character'. It's not the fact that they look different that makes live-action movie Bumblebee different from the original Bumblebee, it's the fact that he acts like a different person. But so does IDW Bumblebee, though he looks the same. Skids has been in IDW but now he's a super-cool fighter with a grappling hook who can learn any skill in a second, rather than a pacifist who likes hanging out with humans and avoiding the war. He looks like the original Skids, but so what? Sorry, Shockprowl, but you asked the original question!  OK, here's mine: - Marvel Ratchet (top chap who uses non-violent solutions to make fools of bad guys when his pals are getting pounded - James Roberts portrayed a Ratchet in MTMTE who could be the same guy later in life, though I gather he's quite a different person from Marvel Ratchet in other IDW stories) - Marvel Prowl (right combination of cold logic and heroic principles) - Marvel Skids (most representative of my ideal in human/Autobot interaction stories) - Marvel Shockwave (the ideal villain - IDW Shockwave is pretty consistent as far as I can see) - Masterforce Ginrai (OK, human character controlling TF body - I think that should be allowed though, since that's how the Powermasters/Godmasters work in the story) Honorable mention: ROTF Jetfire... Martin |
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Post by Toph on Dec 21, 2012 20:39:46 GMT
Skids has been in IDW but now he's a super-cool fighter with a grappling hook who can learn any skill in a second, rather than a pacifist who likes hanging out with humans and avoiding the war. He looks like the original Skids, but so what? Ugh! This is why I can't get into IDW since they kicked out Furman, and rebooted it with AHM tubbish. They can't have a character cool for his own reasons, and now everyone has to be an uber badass. IDW ruined Perceptor, as far as I'm concerned, and now Skids, too? |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 22, 2012 7:53:33 GMT
Skids has been in IDW but now he's a super-cool fighter with a grappling hook who can learn any skill in a second, rather than a pacifist who likes hanging out with humans and avoiding the war. He looks like the original Skids, but so what? Ugh! This is why I can't get into IDW since they kicked out Furman, and rebooted it with AHM tubbish. They can't have a character cool for his own reasons, and now everyone has to be an uber badass. IDW ruined Perceptor, as far as I'm concerned, and now Skids, too? No, not at all. MTMTE is light-years away from (what I've heard of) AHM. Skids is done in a very interesting way, with ominous memory loss and other mysterious and amusing mental blockages, as well as an origin that groups him with others who have special skills like Trailbreaker and Windcharger. (James doesn't do pointless uber badasses.) It's a very good character - just a completely different character to Bob Budiansky's. When you do a reboot, you can't "ruin" characters because you're starting them all again from scratch. The original characters are unaffected. If you reuse a name, a look or even a franchise, that's a purely superficial thing (brand, not character), in order to catch a pre-existing audience through surface familiarity. You then either reuse more substantial things such as events, concepts and personalities from the previous incarnation, or do something different. I like originality to the point where I don't want to see names and looks recycled at all, but when they are, it's still possible to create a new and worthwhile perosnality and biography for them. Though if you're ripping off an already good character for their name and look, the odds are lower that your new version will be better than the old. Martin |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 22, 2012 8:40:07 GMT
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 22, 2012 11:00:51 GMT
All I know is ah got me a headache!
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Post by legios on Dec 22, 2012 19:25:16 GMT
Well said Martin. A new incarnation of a character is divorced from the original, and can easily fork off in different directions. Something that the IDW Transformers stuff. Skids is a very good example of that, as is Prowl to a significant degree. They may share a name and elements of a physical appearance, but on a very fundamental level they don't have anything in common.
This is probably a strength rather than a weakness - I'd rather see reinventions of characters which are genuinely different than which simply retread that which we have seen before
Karl
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Post by Toph on Dec 22, 2012 19:29:49 GMT
When you do a reboot, you can't "ruin" characters because you're starting them all again from scratch. The original characters are unaffected. If you reuse a name, a look or even a franchise, that's a purely superficial thing (brand, not character), in order to catch a pre-existing audience through surface familiarity. You then either reuse more substantial things such as events, concepts and personalities from the previous incarnation, or do something different. I like originality to the point where I don't want to see names and looks recycled at all, but when they are, it's still possible to create a new and worthwhile perosnality and biography for them. Though if you're ripping off an already good character for their name and look, the odds are lower that your new version will be better than the old. Martin I'm inclined to agree to a point. IDW is still G1. It's not an entirely new character, who simply uses the same name, as with Movieverse, or Prime (Here's looking at you, Wheeljack). Whether it's Sunbow, Marvel, Dreamwave, or now IDW, these are all the same basic characters, just different versions of. It's no different than Superman in normal comics, new 52, DCAU, Smallville, Lois & Clark, or Young Justice. It's still the same basic character, who behaves (or is supossed to) in the same basic way, as true to the core concept of the character. Otherwise, he wouldn't be Superman. As such, yes. They ruined Perceptor. IDW has also shown us they're fully capable of ruining brand new characters, too. *cough*Drift*cough* Now, if you're making a case for a completely different universe setting, such as Prime, UT, RiD (The REAL RiD), and Animated, I completely agree with you. You're 100% right on that. But this doesn't fall into that bracket. Same concept, same characters, different continuity. Old Trek/New Trek. On a side note, you're really not making post AHM sound any more enticing to me. |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 23, 2012 17:31:39 GMT
I was going to make a few points, but Martin seems to have reached into my mind and made them for me!
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 23, 2012 17:47:04 GMT
He is our dread telepathic overlord
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Post by Shockprowl on Dec 23, 2012 18:54:16 GMT
This is probably a strength rather than a weakness - I'd rather see reinventions of characters which are genuinely different than which simply retread that which we have seen before Karl It's been a strength were Prowl is concerned. He was pretty good in Marvel comics, especially the UK stuff. But IDW, with Roche in particular, have taken him to a new level. Really delving into how his logical mind could work. A darker Prowl, almost, more calculating, colder. Very interesting and exciting development to my favorite character. Which of the modern IDW ongoings is best for a Prowl fan these days? |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 23, 2012 20:45:01 GMT
IDW 'Prowl' may have more of an edge but I like Marvel Prowl more because he was heroic and self-sacrificing in defence of humans as well as calculating, and he was also a peace-maker post-Unicron. IDW 'Prowl' seems a lot less heroic/idealistic - and to have less patience. Plus, he's reusing the name and look of a previous character (the original Prowl). I'd rather he had a different name and look, and so sell himself to readers without relying on that surface familiarity. I don't read most of the IDW comics, but there are some good pre-war Prowl stories in MTMTE #9-11. RID is the main ongoing 'Prowl' series though, I believe. Whether it's Sunbow, Marvel, Dreamwave, or now IDW, these are all the same basic characters, just different versions of. What is your basis for that claim? IDW 'Cyclonus' has nothing in common with Sunbow/Marvel Cyclonus except the name and look. IDW Cyclonus is 4,000,000 years old, walked on pre-war Cybertron, and was never in the Decepticon army. Sunbow/Marvel Cyclonus was created by Unicron in 2005 from the body of a Decepticon and he became a high-ranking Decepticon. Personalities different too. They have nothing in common with IDW 'Cyclonus' except name and look. He's just one example of many. Is the war-averse Fortress Maximus from the Marvel comics in any way the same character as the big spaceship Spike built in 'The Rebirth' or the ultra-violent ex-prison warden Fortress Maximus in IDW? OK, some of the Sunbow characters have a lot in common with the Marvel ones, because some of the basic plots were the same (same crews crash into volcano and wake up in 1984, same animated movie story) and they were based on the same tech-specs, but that's because they were produced simultaneously to cater for two different media and age groups. But IDW acknowledges none of those common stories, and saying that all reuses of a Sunbow/Marvel TF name and basic look are different versions of the same 'character' is like saying all characters played by a particular film actor are different versions of the same 'character'. Ooh! And another thing. Bumblebee was a yellow VW Beetle in Marvel TF #1. A few years later he was called Goldbug and he was a red Formula-1 battery-powered car about a foot long, which couldn't transform. Different name, different size, different shape, different colour scheme. None of that matters - it was the same character who had appeared in issue #1, because it was the same person living the same life. That's all that counts. But a yellow VW Beetle Autobot in a different universe with a different origin and personality, called Bumblebee - in no way the same character. Martin |
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Post by legios on Dec 24, 2012 14:44:54 GMT
There were things I was going to say in this thread but I think Martin has said most of them. I'll wave my order pots and mumble "hear-hear" and go back to sleep on the back-benches.
Karl
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 24, 2012 18:32:15 GMT
Martin again reads my mind. If only I could go back in time with his wise words to defeat pointless stupid internet debates of the past.
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Dec 24, 2012 20:24:43 GMT
@martin,
Again, I fundamentally disagree.
IDW is just another alternate version of G1. Just like Sunbow, Marvel, Dreamwave, Shattered Glass, Blackrock, and so on.
Just because Cyclonus has three distinct origins in different alternate continuities (Made by Unicron in Sunbow, two or three different origins in Marvel, depending on what timeline, and whatever garbage FP coughed up for SG), doesn't mean they aren't alternate representations of the same character.
New Trek Kirk is intended to be the same character as Old Trek Kirk, in a different continuity. Just like Armada Optimus from the comics is intended as an alternate version of Armada Optimus from the anime.
Just like Ultimate Wolverine, 616 Wolverine, Movie Wolverine, Fox Cartoon Wolverine, Age of Apocalypse Wolverine, Evolution Wolverine, and Wolverine & The X-Men Wolverine are all representations of the same character. They all look the same, fill the same niche, even if they all act completely different. You wouldn't be arguing that the leader of the X-Men in Wolverine and the X-Men is not Wolverine, because he's not 100% exactly identical to 616 Wolverine, and because it's not the exact same continuity as 616.
The Red Lanterns, and the Red Power Rings in GL: The Animated Series behave very differently than they do in the Green Lantern Comics. The Star Sapphire have a hugely different origin, as well. But There's absolutely no doubt that they represent the same things, in an alternate universe.
IDW's continuity represents a new G1 continuity. In many ways, it's basically just Ultimate Transformers. No more complex than that. To say it's not a different version of G1 is as silly as saying Ultimate Marvel is not a different version of 616 Marvel.
It's not as complex as you're making it out to be. This kind of thing is as old as comics. It's just not as common with Transformers, as G1, and Armada/Energon are the only places where this plays out the same way. Beast Era, RiD, and Cybertron really got no other fiction beyond their cartoons, and IDW tried to make the movie and Animated comics to be completely consistant to the movies and cartoon respectively. (I won't mention the clusterfuck that is Primeverse, given nothing meshes, yet hasbro insists the games, cartoon, books, and comics are all the same continuity)
G1 is no different than DC Comics/DCAU, or Marvel/Marvel Animated/Ultimate Marvel. Multiple continuities under one mantle, because they all use different or simular variations of the same characters.
So, you're demanding I validate myself with "Basis" for my "claim," so should you as well. Why are Marvel Grimlock, Sunbow Grimlock, and Dreamwave Grimlock all G1, but IDW Grimlock isn't just because he's now in a newer continuity?
I can fill this entire board for days with nothing but examples of this.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 24, 2012 22:30:47 GMT
I have no clue what any of that means but merry Christmas!
-Ralph
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