Politics

[Benn]

Well, allow me to get my tin foil hat for a second, but I don't believe it was as bad for Johnson as we were told, and I don't believe it for Trump, either.

But that's what this constant lying and shifting of truths has done for my trust in rightside politics

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Trump will play it down, not up. It doesn't suit his narrative in the slightest to be come across as any more badly affected by the virus than he absolutely has to.

Also, he's an overweight man in his '70s who makes no effect at social distancing. It is entirely to be expected that he will (a) catch it, and (b) get badly ill from it. What's there to be sceptical about?

Martin

[Grand Moff Muffin]

A comment piece by Jane Clinton in today's 'i' newspaper:

Donald Trump and a report of a positive Covid-19 test are manna from heaven for the millions of conspiracy theorists on social media.

The Daily Beast noted that it took "about two full minutes from President Trump's tweet confirming that he and Melania Trump had both tested positive for Covid-19 for the Twittersphere to go crazy with conspiracies". Some Twitter users suggested the President was "faking" the diagnosis to avoid further TV debates. Another claimed the President was fabricating the positive result to show how quickly he "recovered" and that Covid-19 is not at all as bad as it seems.

But the self-styled conspiracy-theory debunker Mike Rothschild was not convinced: noting that Mr Trump's image "depends on him being a street fighter Adonis who outworks men half his age. He wouldn't pretend to be sick or weak."

And the "Hoarse Whisperer" tweeted: "To folks speculating Trump might be lying about having Covid as a ruse: 1) His narcissism makes him see being sick as being weak. 2) He can't campaign for two weeks. His narcissism needs that ego fuel. He has it."

Martin

[Benn]

Merely the highly convenient timing of it.

Like I said, my trust has been eroded to the point that I am incapable of trusting anything they say and look for what an actual truth could be.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

If he wanted to fake something he'd fake an assassination attempt by China or Muslims or illegal immigrants or liberals or something, not catching Covid from a loyal aide. In fact he probably missed a trick when he caught Covid by not pretending it was something his base would consider more heroic.

Martin

[Toph]

Personally, I'd be hesitant to call any speculation that's based on them doing nothing but lying for four years straight, a "conspiracy theory."
Everything they've said and done, the truth is usually the opposite. Itcs natural that your first assumption would be to believe the opposite of what he says.

The actual conspiracy theories to emerge are from the psychotic right, and those (so far) come in two flavors:
1) This is an assassination attempt from China
2) Biden purposefully infected him at the debate through the microphone (though it seems like he already had it then, and knew it.

What genuinely terrifies me though is the probability that all the moderate republicans he's shed will now show up and hold their noses to vote for him, gambling on that he won't be alive in a year, and they can have Pence as president.

[Fortmax2020]

Through the microphone..? What??

[Toph]

Don't...don't think about it too hard.

These same people also have claimed that Biden had constant intravenous injections of aderal because he'd fall asleep on stage otherwise, had a microphone on his wrist (...why?), and was missing his ear canal.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Bum poo.

Martin

[Fortmax2020]

The only thing worse than what looks like another four years of division would be a Trump landslide. He hasn't won yet (despite his Mad Tyrant proclamation), but the results are still very disappointing.

[Andy Turnbull]

Whatever happens Biden will have won the popular vote by some considerable margin, thus highlighting how fucked up the US voting system is that Trump is still hanging on.

Could be a long few days...

[The Doctor]

I am very depressed by the political situation in America. Looks like fascism will win again.

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

They won't win, but will still be emboldened.

Can't see Trump being the quiet, out of the limelight President Obama choose to be for a few years.

[Toph]

Last night was horrible. biden stayed in the lead consistently, but this wasn't the clear moral rejection of the orange menace that this country needed.

He went on TV last night and announced victory while half the country was still counting ballots, and that "the voting needs to be stopped" because "they're stealing the election from us."

This morning a bunch of his cultists raided a Michigan counting place trying to shut it down.

Today looks much better. Biden is ahead by a considerable margin. Pennsylvania, Georgia, and North Carolina are huge states that are still out, and still too early and too close to call. But Biden no longer needs to win them to win the election, as of 4:30pm central standard time.
But I think if Donald loses just one, it's over for him, if I understand the math correctly.
So I don't know what they're saying over there, but it's actually looking really good. It'll still be a squeaker, and it's not the full scale rebuke that we need, but I'm actually feeling something akin to hope. Something that's hope-adjacent.

But the only person who is absolutely quantifiably worse than Donald was reelected- Mitch McConnell. And that's just heartbreaking. He is why america has ground to a halt. He is why Shitler was allowed to steal two supreme court seats.

[The Doctor]

It's very unclear what is going on. Some news organisations are claiming Biden won Arizona even though the state hasn't been declared and his lead has narrowed so frankly I have no idea what is going on now. Last night it looked like Biden had an easy win within grasp, this morning not so much.

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

The biggest clue Biden is on course to win is that the Republicans are scrambling bogus legal challenges and want vote counting stopped.

Sadly it looks like the House and Senate will stay at stalemate and orchestrated of that like Graham and Mitch M. have all got back in.

Not sure how much difference having a democratic President will make now. The midterms may be the chance to sort this all out, but this week's vote has still shown how America is divided and has issues in society it needs to challenge before it can move forwards. Much like us here in the UK.

[Toph]

Yeah that's causing confusion here. But only two jumped the gung Fox News and the Associated Press.
Everyone else is waiting to see.

There are still six states up in the air:

Pennsylvania- too close to call. Trump lead but biden gaining, and most uncounted ballots are from heavily democrat districts.

North Carolina- Will not announce their count until the 12th for some reason

Arizona- Too close to call. Biden leads, but Trump gaining fast.

Georgia- Too close to call. Same story as Pennsylvania.

Nevada- will not announce their count until sometime before noon today (the fifth. It's currently 2:30am for me, they're an hour or two behind me)

Alaska- No one's talked about it. Dunno what it's doing. All I know is it'll likely be Donald's.

If Biden wins Nevada and Arizona, it's over. Biden wins. But he can do it without Arizona. But Donny however needs to win Arizona, Georgia, N. Carolina, and Pennsylvania to win. That's supposedly his only path. If one of those goes to Biden, it's done.

At least that's what I've been hearing constantly all night.

[Toph]

Nov 5, 2020 8:41:31 GMT Fortmax2020 said:

The biggest clue Biden is on course to win is that the Republicans are scrambling bogus legal challenges and want vote counting stopped.

Sadly it looks like the House and Senate will stay at stalemate and orchestrated of that like Graham and Mitch M. have all got back in.

Not sure how much difference having a democratic President will make now. The midterms may be the chance to sort this all out, but this week's vote has still shown how America is divided and has issues in society it needs to challenge before it can move forwards. Much like us here in the UK.

the senate is still in play. There are still a couple races left that haven't been called, with the seat that was formerly held by John Lewis going into a runoff. I think the dems only need two seats now to get control.
I mean like... It's not looking good. But it's still in play.
But yes. Moscow Mitch is the worst man in america. Nothing will really change until he's gone perminantly. Even as minority leader the damage he causes is incomprehensible.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Nov 5, 2020 8:41:31 GMT Fortmax2020 said:

America is divided and has issues in society it needs to challenge before it can move forwards. Much like us here in the UK.

Like and yet unlike the UK.

I prefer to live in a country with complicated politics where multiple parties have influence and agree or disagree with one another to different degrees on different issues, with rebels within each party depending on the issue, rather than a country with just two fiercely loyal parties each commanding support from half the people and being despised by the other half. I mean, why should your views on abortion have anything to do with your views on climate change or immigration or trade with China? In America you seem to just have two packages to choose from and it's all or nothing.

Yesterday the UK opposition parties all supported the government lockdown. The naysayers were all from the government side. Can't see that sort of thing happening in the US.

To a certain extent I like it when the parties are visibly split on issues like Brexit or Covid because it means the individual politicians are thinking for themselves and questioning their leaders and not just voting in line.

Martin

[Toph]

Oh there's not much in the way of loyalty.

The republicans in charge rule by fear and bullying. If they didn't have a deep seated "us versus them" mentality, they would eat each other. Their only loyalty is to the money that lines their pockets and the billionaires that put it there.
There's no loyalty to Trump, either. Moscow Mitch aside, they're terrified of him because he might say mean things about them on twitter. No clue why that was so bad that they eventually handed him the actual power to seek true retribution against them.

There's no loyalty in the Democratic Party, either. Sooooo many people on the left tried so hard to undermine Biden and spreading bigger lies than the trump campaign and the russians. People carrying on that hecs worse than trump.
So many refusing to vote for him out of spite because Bernie Sanders wasn't the nominee. If Biden loses Georgia, it will be within the margin of those who voted third party.

The democratic party is even more fractured and divided than the republican party.

Both parties are going to implode at some point.

[Toph]

Since he started campaigning almost immediately after he was elected in 2016, the 2020 election has unofficially been going on for four years straight.
I am so tired of elections.
Win or lose I just want to move on.

But if he wins, he'll start campaigning for a third term.
So it's never over. It'll never end.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

It's true, the US presidential primaries are an unedifying spectacle. When I said fiercely loyal parties I didn't so much mean loyal to one another but rather loyal to the party name. The impression I get is that Republican or Democrat is part of the personal identity of so many Americans. I don't think most UK voters have lifelong attachments to specific parties in quite the same way. Maybe they did more in the past, when classes were more clearly defined, I dunno.

Martin

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Nov 5, 2020 10:01:01 GMT Toph said:

But if he wins, he'll start campaigning for a third term.

And if he loses, he might also return in four years!

Martin

[Toph]

Nov 5, 2020 10:07:31 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

Nov 5, 2020 10:01:01 GMT Toph said:

But if he wins, he'll start campaigning for a third term.

And if he loses, he might also return in four years!

Martin

I... I'm not comfortable saying anything for certain regarding him...but that's not gonna happen.
He fucked up running in the first place. He genuinely did not intend to win. Like most of us, even he didn't think he had a chance.
He wanted the publicity the run would give him to launch his own news network, and so he could whine about how the election was stolen from him by that "nasty woman."
It's his own psychology that won't allow him to back down currently, plus the NEED to stay in office to avoid criminal charges.

But more than that, I think it's highly probable he'll flee the country, even before Biden is inaugurated to take refuge in Russia, and sell all the state secrets he's chock full of, to our enemies just to be vindictive.
A friend of mine suggested he'll resign sometime around christmas so that "President" Pence can pardon him. And if he were slightly more clever, I'd agree. That's the smart play.
But resigning, even for this reason, to him would be the same as admitting he's a loser. I'm not sure he could do that.

[Toph]

Pennsylvania has flipped to biden, and his margin will only get wider. It's very incredibly unlikely donald will get it back.

If Pennsylvania is declared for Biden, he will stand as President Elect. It's over. Biden wins. Trump can take all remaining states (only N. Carolina and Alaska are in his camp), and will still lose.

Astronaut Mark Kelly, who's the husband of Gabby Giffords, the former congresswoman who survived a brutal assassination attempt a few years ago, won John McCain's former senate seat from the republican incumbent, which now ties the senate.

The two georgia senate races are going to runoff elections. The woman who's Herculean efforts against the worst voter suppression laws in the country brought Georgia to Biden, will bring the vote to them. And the republicans in those races will not have trump on the ticket to bring out his specific base to support them.
We need one more seat to take the majority. We only need to win one of these two races.

[Toph]

I'm starting to feel something strange...it's...i dunno what you call it...hope adjacent?
It's an alien feeling.

[Dezzeh]

I think it’s safe to say we are all feeling it now. So much of Trumps behaviour has enabled similar here that hopefully, being rid of him may improve the UK as well.

[The Doctor]

Indeed.

I can't relax until the election is officially called though. Until then no one has won. Votes are still being counted. Things can change.

-Ralph

[Toph]

I'm still nervous as hell, but I'm no longer feeling the anxiety I was a few days ago.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Boris Johnson: 'Deal to be done' on post-Brexit EU trade

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54840747

Contrast with:

Brexit: Trade talks with the EU are over, says No 10

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54566897

Damn right there's a deal to be done. Try getting a US trade deal on the back of a no-deal Brexit and a unilateral rewriting of the Northern Ireland Protocol with Biden in the White House, Boris.

Martin