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Post by Pinwig on Mar 11, 2014 22:18:05 GMT
I'm interested in some personal opinions, as I don't think there's a 'right' answer to this. If you still have G1 figures in your collection, what form do you feel comfortable with them being? What I mean is - completely 80s original, spruced up with parts replaced from junkers or repro-labels applied to remove scuffed ones, or a minty fresh well looked after commemorative or encore reissue?
I tend to like sets or collections to all be the same type, and I have been plugging holes recently. I had envisaged all my G1s being pure originals with no refurbishment, but having had a couple of almost but not quite nice figures from ebay recently I'm wondering if I can persuade my 'they have to be all of the same kind' mentality to accept a bit of polishing. I got a Sunstreaker yesterday, which was listed as C9 complete, and while it is indeed complete it definitely isn't C9. The figure is sound, if a bit floppy, but the labels are letting the side down. I'm just tempted to use this as a first experiment with repro-labels, but can't overcome the 'it must be pure!' mental block.
See, I also have a commemorative Jazz in my line up, which is obviously in better nick than any of the originals. But I can't yet accept him into the fold as a 'real' Jazz, despite the fact that's really exactly what he is.
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Post by Shockprowl on Mar 12, 2014 8:03:05 GMT
I know what you mean. I have my own 'mental blocks' that I can't move past, like scale of robot modes. Your problem here is a tricky one, because completing a G1 collection with near-perfect figures that are 30 years old must be difficult! If I were attenpting such a collection, I would just be happy if they looked right. My reissue G1 Prowl in my Prowl collection isn't 30 years old, but he looks the part and is in perfect condition, so I'm happy. If they ultimately look like G1 toys, I (think) I'd be happy. But I can completely appreciate your problem, cyber-chumb.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 12, 2014 8:09:46 GMT
I've never been fussed if I have had a vintage copy of a toy or a re-issue though have tended towards the latter as usually cheaper and/or shinier. Always preferred having a copy of a toy in best condition. However, I have never wanted to get a vintage complete toy that has been put together by (for example) parts donation from a few junkers. I like a vintage toy to be of the original whole...but don't mind if accessories have come from different copies. Can't explain why!
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 12, 2014 9:29:06 GMT
I can't say I've ever been too concerned about things like that. I still have my entire childhood collection and I wont generally mess with it. If it was bought before 2000 its value is in memories of playing with it or where I was when I got it, if something's broken or missing, I'm not inclined to replace parts. But I might acquire a brand new shiny reissue for display purposes or a reissue or something I don't have, I'd rather have the recent Soundblaster reissue in there than no Soundblaster.
Theres also the matter of were you draw the line with reissues. Hot Rod, Kup, Blurr, Scourge and Cyclonus were reissued as Targetmasters. The classic Pretenders were reissued without shells. The 1990 classic line are all reissues despite them compromising a large chunk of what I consider my original toys. Euro Constructicons, Rescue force Motivators and Overlord all technically reissues. G2 too and my beautiful barely touched still in the well padded postage box it arrived in G1 Soundwave is in fact from the mid 90s Chinese reissues.
Most people dont treat them as reissues, I guess because Pre Beast Wars is all G1, but they are and in some cases are nearer Takaras 2000 era reissues than their original mid 80s releases.
Thankfully I have little to no hang ups about mixing and matching, I don't split up into category, I currently have Masterpiece, movie, classics, Prime, Beast Wars and G1 all mixed in together. The closest I have to a separate grouping is Animated and thats only because I put up new shelves and most of my Animated wasn't already out.
Having said that I don't tend to mix and match parts from original and reissue, if for no other reason than if I ever decide to have a clear out I don't want to have to remember whats original and whats not.
Reprolabels are great though. Well worth trying. I've never used them to redo a G1 toy, at least not yet I have 2 or 3 sets of Overlord Stickers ready to apply to the best of the toys I'm rebuilding. But I have used them on customs and random things and the quality is excellent.
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Post by Shockprowl on Mar 12, 2014 12:01:41 GMT
Yes, I've always had good experiences with Reprolabels.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 12:07:25 GMT
I'm in a strange place for this too. I had a whole bunch of G1 toys then missed everything up until the Bay movies arrived. I viewed stuff from afar but disliked the G2 colours that reminded me of cracker toys and didn't 'get' Beast Wars (are they robotic or organic?).
For me, if it's G1 then it has to be mint, probably in a box. That's the place for those toys - vintage collectibles, not to be played with but stored properly and displayed with a fair amount of care. They're not so much toys as ornaments with which I have a sentimental nostalgic connection. The reality is that they're often no fun to play with and their transformations are familiar but dated. If it's not in mint condition, it's worthless - like an antique table missing a leg. It then becomes fair pickings for salvage, just as you might use the table for firewood or repurpose it as something else (a bird table?).
Reissues (specifically Encores) are an odd one because in my mind, they appeal of G1 toys is the era associated to them. A reissue just seems like a full on forgery. I can't see the appeal of a toy, that when compared to other toys being produced at the moment, is under-articulated and lacking in detail. That is not to say that all G1 toys suffer from these shortcomings but it would be hard to say they're of the current standard - just give an eight-year-old a G1 reissue and modern Prime toy and see which one he looses interest in first...
Which brings me nicely to current toys that, in my mind, should be played with first and foremost. I have several current MISB toys but they're kept as such with a view to handing down or selling on for profit. I tend to be attracted by themes and don't really make any distinction between Voyager, Delux etc as long as they fit in. My first major launch into collecting was borne out of love for the WfC and FoC games. I wanted every figure from those games. Then I started the whole Wreckers thing which was a lot of fun. Then, most recently Project Mayhem.
Where I've recently found joy is in salvaging components from G1 toys to make or enhance modern versions. Guzzle was an interesting project but his fragility (of paintwork) means he's looked after much more like a G1 figure than a modern part of the Wreckers. But Needlenose, having been built from three FoC seekers and parts from two G1 Neelenose figures, is a wonderfully playable figure. Ruckus is coming along nicely to.
It's in this new interest where I've found a happy medium: The functionality of modern figures, the nostalgia of older ones and the 'hat-tipping' by giving junked G1 figures new purpose.
Good topic!
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Post by Llama God on Mar 12, 2014 14:09:31 GMT
I've never been fussed if I have had a vintage copy of a toy or a re-issue though have tended towards the latter as usually cheaper and/or shinier. Always preferred having a copy of a toy in best condition. However, I have never wanted to get a vintage complete toy that has been put together by (for example) parts donation from a few junkers. I like a vintage toy to be of the original whole...but don't mind if accessories have come from different copies. Can't explain why! I am in complete agreement with you there. Including the weird, final part. It's strange, but I prefer toys to all come from the same source, whatever that source may be. Don't ask me how I cope with Lego. I don't really have an extensive G1 collection - I have what I had at the time, and just buy more new stuff as it comes out. Aside from when I get some older stuff. (I'm not particularly consistent, either.) But I have, for example, the key-chain early 2000's version of G1 Bumblebee, which I'm happy to have as part of my G1 collection because, well, it's close enough, and substantially cheaper than any other option. It's whatever works. I'm also not a stickler for having perfect condition G1 toys. Provided that they're mine. The case most in point: I have quite a large collection of Optimus Primes (well, only 68 actually, which makes me something of an amateur, I know...), but in that collection I only have one of the original 1984 G1 Primes. And that's pretty badly beaten up. But I've never been tempted to buy one of the many reissues. (Aside maybe from the Japanese New Year version, 'cos of the Matrix accessory - but that's beside the point.) Because beaten up as my G1 Prime may be, with a snapped smoke stack, missing rub-sign, and tyre-treads full of Play-Doh, all those wounds are memories for me. Memories of when I played with it as a kid. And that's something I don't ever want to replace. So to proper collectors (AFA-graded types) my collection would be imperfect, but to me, it's pretty perfect. And, actually, another reason is that I'll never get the same sense of excitement again as I did opening G1 Prime on my seventh birthday - the re-issue will never be as exciting, 'cos you what's coming. Or at least, I never thought I'd have that same sense of excitement. And then I got MP-10 for Christmas a couple of years back. And that... That was as close to opening up G1 Prime for the first time, but again. Same experience, but with 28-odd years of experience. That was weird. But cool. I'm not sure I've answered the original question. But there you go. :-) |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Mar 12, 2014 16:10:24 GMT
I don't mind as long as the toy is in decent shape.
The one exception is certain reissues which comes with extras: TMs Hot Rod and Kup both have their original guns as well as the TM ones, Stepper has gold versions of Jazz's weapons and Megatron has everything both western and G1 versions had: stock and silencer, sword and missile firing capability. As toys go these are the best versions of these.
Likewise PM Prime has to be God Ginrai cos it's so much better than the original
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Post by duffism1981 on Mar 12, 2014 19:16:34 GMT
I picked up my first batch of reprolabels a month ago as the stickers on my Bruticus, Defensor and Menasaur were in really poor condition, but I have yet to apply them.
What would you suggest is the best method or removing the original stickers from the figures without causing any damage. I have read things such as baby oil and lighter fluid, but I would rather ask the opinions and experiences of others here.
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 12, 2014 20:41:03 GMT
I picked up my first batch of reprolabels a month ago as the stickers on my Bruticus, Defensor and Menasaur were in really poor condition, but I have yet to apply them. What would you suggest is the best method or removing the original stickers from the figures without causing any damage. I have read things such as baby oil and lighter fluid, but I would rather ask the opinions and experiences of others here. Unless the paint/chrome underneath is fragile I'd just scrape them off, maybe dampen them first. Soap and water to clean after should be enough. |
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 12, 2014 22:44:53 GMT
This is a fantastic discussion, loads of great thoughts about this. I do think there's something inescapably exciting about the original figures that the reissues don't have. Simply that they're now 30 years old for a start. That gives them something extra. Maybe it doesn't matter that they're all slightly battered - after all we have the current line releases to enjoy as pristine figures.
I'm really quite keen to see how close to the originals the repro labels are, I'll have to pick a few figures I'm not fussed about and order up some to see what's what.
I'm no expert on this Hippobot, in fact I'm a complete novice, but there was a fascinating discussion on the Seibertron.com Twincast podcast a few months ago about figure restoration, and their consensus was that lighter fluid is the best method of removing stickers. There was a lot of interesting info on that one, the episode was called fixit. Think it was #81.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 12, 2014 23:07:22 GMT
On a similar point, I think it's fantastic that some of these vintage toys still get reissues from time to time. I get annoyed whenever (for example) 1984 Optimus Prime/Convoy is put out in a new edition and folk online shout and rant about it coming out "again" or that it is taking some imaginary 'slot' that some other figure should have got. I tend to think it's amazing that moulds (and characters) which are now 30 years old (or more!) still have some commercially viability considering advances and changes in toys in the intervening decades. There's something comforting to see these old figures get a new lease of life from time to time, especially when so many of them have had re-interpretations in the likes of the Classics or Masterpiece lines.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 13, 2014 0:14:47 GMT
That is not to say that all G1 toys suffer from these shortcomings but it would be hard to say they're of the current standard - just give an eight-year-old a G1 reissue and modern Prime toy and see which one he looses interest in first... It's usually the more modern figure in my experience. It depends on the toys, but Hasbro are right when they say speed of transformation and ease of transformation do seem to be more of a priority to a kid who is transforming the toy in play. Articulation doesn't seem to be important for many. In that respect they hold up well. |
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 13, 2014 0:17:52 GMT
On a similar point, I think it's fantastic that some of these vintage toys still get reissues from time to time. I get annoyed whenever (for example) 1984 Optimus Prime/Convoy is put out in a new edition and folk online shout and rant about it coming out "again" or that it is taking some imaginary 'slot' that some other figure should have got. I tend to think it's amazing that moulds (and characters) which are now 30 years old (or more!) still have some commercially viability considering advances and changes in toys in the intervening decades. There's something comforting to see these old figures get a new lease of life from time to time, especially when so many of them have had re-interpretations in the likes of the Classics or Masterpiece lines. -Ralph I love to see Prime or whoever rereleased. I haven't picked up a G1 Prime since the Pepsi Prime in 2007 but have loved the 25th, Ipod docks and the mental Bape? ones. |
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Post by Marc Graham on Mar 13, 2014 12:37:22 GMT
I prefer toys in good condition, wear and tear is only acceptable if its from play I have done, so re-issues are welcomed in my collection, worn toys from my childhood are welcome. As for stickers/labels - I'm generally not too worried about them whether original or repro.
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Post by Jim on Mar 15, 2014 0:12:58 GMT
I prefer toys in good condition, wear and tear is only acceptable if its from play I have done, so re-issues are welcomed in my collection, worn toys from my childhood are welcome. As for stickers/labels - I'm generally not too worried about them whether original or repro. I'm basically the same as this, though I've made exceptions for G1 figures in great condition. The Action Masters I've acquired this way I assume were bought MOSC by an adult collector and only lately opened, as they don't look at all played-with. I'm not averse to opening MOSC / MISB G1s, especially where reissues are unlikely. Got a great Groundshaker last year like this. -Jim |
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Post by Toph on Mar 15, 2014 5:48:11 GMT
On a similar point, I think it's fantastic that some of these vintage toys still get reissues from time to time. I get annoyed whenever (for example) 1984 Optimus Prime/Convoy is put out in a new edition and folk online shout and rant about it coming out "again" or that it is taking some imaginary 'slot' that some other figure should have got. I tend to think it's amazing that moulds (and characters) which are now 30 years old (or more!) still have some commercially viability considering advances and changes in toys in the intervening decades. There's something comforting to see these old figures get a new lease of life from time to time, especially when so many of them have had re-interpretations in the likes of the Classics or Masterpiece lines. -Ralph Agreed. Just because you were't collecting until three years ago doesn't mean you deserve to be punished for it by having to shell out hundreds for a G1 Optimus. The most iconic guys should turn up every so often. (I also feel the same way for "classics" updates) People lose sight of the fact that not everything hasbro makes is made specifically for them, and them alone. You have one of the older releases of G1 Optimus? Good for you. There are thousands who don't. If you don't want the latest reissue, don't buy it. Endlessly complaining about it won't change anything. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Mar 15, 2014 11:48:09 GMT
I think it's excellent that older toys get rereleased. Why not? I don't collect them myself, but they're fantastic toys and folkes should have opportunity to own and enjoy them.
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Post by legios on Mar 15, 2014 16:19:06 GMT
Indeed. The thing with TF collecting is that it is a cylical thing - new people start, some folk stop, folk who once stopped start again. It is nice that some older stuff is rereleased so that those who weren't around at the time can pick it up. My own collection us a bit of a mismatch - a couple of 84 toys, a handful of G2, some generations and Universe toys. My three "First Wave" Decepticon Jets are an 84 Skywarp, a Takara Reissue Starscream and a Hasbro reissue Thundercracker, and I have no qualms about them sitting next to one another. And in terms of how "pure" an individual toy, lets just say that when I get a chance to acquire the h-stabs and weapons necessary to renovate my Skywarp I will not be picky whether the donot airframe is a retired Block-84 or a low flight-hours 00's one. A part is a part.
Karl
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