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Post by blueshift on May 6, 2019 10:51:21 GMT
Non-spoiler newsflash:
In a 'Where's Wally'-esque move, there's a Starbucks cup hiding somewhere in episode 4, can you find it??
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Dezzeh
Thunderjet
Wait, what?
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Post by Dezzeh on May 8, 2019 11:46:15 GMT
I found this episode more enjoyable than last weeks darkness battle. Yes it had some flaws, a la the coffee cup, but it could have been worse.
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Post by blueshift on May 13, 2019 8:07:56 GMT
UUUUUUUUUUGH
Whilst I have no problems with WHAT happened I have massive issues with HOW it happened. There's a million ways to end up with Dany burning King's Landing without having her sitting there, looking at her watch and saying "welp, time to murder all the women and children!" |
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on May 13, 2019 11:37:39 GMT
Yeah, totally. {Spoiler}We needed a good half a season of her slow descent into madness. The paranoia of Jon as the true ruler, the people's following of him and the continued acts of Cersei pushing her over the edge.
Instead this was compressed into about 4 scenes. |
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Post by blueshift on May 13, 2019 11:56:27 GMT
Yeah, totally. {Spoiler}We needed a good half a season of her slow descent into madness. The paranoia of Jon as the true ruler, the people's following of him and the continued acts of Cersei pushing her over the edge.
Instead this was compressed into about 4 scenes. 4 scenes is generous!
It's frustrating because there's nothing fundamentally wrong with anything that happened this season, but it's all done so cackhandedly and with no regard for character.
Like, the Night King fight. Sure. Have the baddies overwhelm the good guys but let them use some actual tactics first.
And you can have Arya kill him, but you'd want to really lean into the whole prophecy about Jon being the chosen one, and have him and everyone else really build the hype, only to have him fail (which also matches with the stuff GRRM does in the books more).
And why are the ballistas so accurate and deadly last week and like paper this week?
Why not have Raeghal die this week during the battle instead, so Dany snapping and torching everyone has more of an instigating factor?
Stuff like that are such easy fixes, but the writers just couldn't be bothered to have characters act in-character to hit their plot beats
Amazing non-spoiler video |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 13, 2019 21:19:15 GMT
{Spoiler}I absolutely called the end of Varys and how it would go down. Looking like Arya Stark will kill Daenrys now.
Tyrion and Sansa on the Iron Throne together. |
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Post by Bogatan on May 13, 2019 22:46:14 GMT
Yeah, totally. {Spoiler}We needed a good half a season of her slow descent into madness. The paranoia of Jon as the true ruler, the people's following of him and the continued acts of Cersei pushing her over the edge.
Instead this was compressed into about 4 scenes. {Spoiler}4 scenes is generous!
It's frustrating because there's nothing fundamentally wrong with anything that happened this season, but it's all done so cackhandedly and with no regard for character.
Like, the Night King fight. Sure. Have the baddies overwhelm the good guys but let them use some actual tactics first.
And you can have Arya kill him, but you'd want to really lean into the whole prophecy about Jon being the chosen one, and have him and everyone else really build the hype, only to have him fail (which also matches with the stuff GRRM does in the books more).
And why are the ballistas so accurate and deadly last week and like paper this week?
Why not have Raeghal die this week during the battle instead, so Dany snapping and torching everyone has more of an instigating factor?
Stuff like that are such easy fixes, but the writers just couldn't be bothered to have characters act in-character to hit their plot beats
{Spoiler}I was saying have Missandei killed at the start of this but yeah her and or the Dragon dying this episode immediately before the battle would have made more sense.
The Iron fleet attack the unsullied ships last week while no dragon is around (or use the scorpions to drive them away) and capture Missandei. Then have this weeks episode start out pretty much as is except Raeghal is hit by the Iron fleet. As Dany destroys the cities defenses the city begins surrendering and the attack stops. Cersei in a final act of spite has Missandei dragged to to some visible spot and executed. The rest of the episode plays out as is. If nothing else it would have given Cercei an active role in her downfall which would have worked in quite nicely to the one character this episode did handle pretty well.
I mean Im pretty sure you could do a good fan cut of that version just by re-editing the existing episodes.
At the moment she manages to contain her fury at Raeghals death and Misandeis kidnap all the way to Kings Landing and her subsequent death all the way back to Dragonstone? and back to Kings Landing and then only looses it after the city surrenders.
I always kind of assumed she'd go mad, but not like this.
And yes they should have had at least a few episodes of Dany at least attempting to win support from some of the non Northerners last season (not just the battle with Sams Dad) and anothe one of two dealing with her paranoia this season.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 16, 2019 22:07:33 GMT
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 16, 2019 22:16:09 GMT
Everyone who signed that petition should be lined up against a wall and everyone who didn't sign it has the chance to kick them in the groin just once.
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Post by blueshift on May 16, 2019 22:40:33 GMT
I don't think anyone signing it in any way, shape or form expects anyone to actually DO it. I mean, I signed the petition a while back demanding that they turn the black liquid in that cursed Egyptian sarcophagus into a drink, doesn't mean I wanted to drink it. I think it's just a silly way for people to vent that ISN'T throwing insults on the internet, and surely that's a positive! EDIT: www.change.org/p/let-people-drink-the-red-liquid-from-the-dark-sarcophagus |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 19, 2019 21:58:39 GMT
No, it's not about venting.
It's about entitlement - WAAH WAAAH WAAAAH I WANT YOU TO MAKE WHAT WAS IN MY HEAD WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE IT. I DEMAND YOU MAKE IT.
The same mentality behind the remake The Last Jedi minus all the SJW elements the edgelords find troubling.
Andy
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Post by Bogatan on May 20, 2019 8:39:24 GMT
Its a little about venting for most people I imagine. I dont think for a second anyone expects they'll redo it. Bit of hyperbole in the "demand" but it gets people attention.
I mean launching it before the season ended is bloody stupid, even if the main issue of rushing the last two seasons is largely accepted as not quite working even by people who aren't complaining.
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Post by blueshift on May 20, 2019 10:27:08 GMT
Its a little about venting for most people I imagine. I dont think for a second anyone expects they'll redo it. Bit of hyperbole in the "demand" but it gets people attention. I mean launching it before the season ended is bloody stupid, even if the main issue of rushing the last two seasons is largely accepted as not quite working even by people who aren't complaining. I think it's interesting, because there are very few people who mind *what* happened, just *how* it happened. Which is ODD. I mean some of the best early moments of the show were show-original (like the Arya+Tywin stuff in season 2) but this season they seem to have completely forgotten about how... humans work. Characters are just getting moved from point A to point B and it's really weird and unsatisfying and no thought at all seems to be given to 'why'. There's also a really sad interview with Emilia Clarke on Entertainment Weekly about this and how confused she was about how the character she had been playing suddenly turned into Dragon Hitler for little reason. Given how a lot of the cast have come across about the writing at the moment (and that's during the period where they HAVE to be nice about the show) I really wonder what will come out of the woodwork down the line. Watched this week's ep. I thought it was okay. Not great, but not horrible so that's a step-up from the previous three weeks. Again, VERY rushed. Dany brought along her supervillain costume and gave mad crazy speeches. Greyworm is now a scowling villain (nice for them to decide he needs a personality but the last episode's a bit late). Drogon is either the cleverest dragon (realising that really it was the power as symbolised by the Iron Throne that had corrupted Dany, and so melted it) or the stupidest dragon (seeing that she had been stabbed, he thought the chair made of knives had killed her and so took his revenge). So Jaime and Cersei would have survived if they'd just stood a few steps back in that giant room? Oh well! Bet they feel silly now! Sansa was just like, Jesus Christ, really? "OH YEAH THE NORTH IS NOW INDEPENDENT". Lucky everyone else just went along with it, sure, why not. You might imagine Dorne and the Iron Islands might have wanted to follow suit, but no, the writers forgot about their entire motivations, so it all worked out. Also I liked when Sansa decided she needed to shout to everyone that Bran's impotent. Nice one Sansa, good wingman there! Tyrion being all "surely the greatest story of them all is the boy who fell out of a tower" and meanwhile Arya is standing there being all a Faceless Man assassin who killed the Night's King. They all hail Bran as 'Bran the Broken'. Poor guy  Like, wowwwwww rude. But Tyrion is right. Having a ruler with no clear heir is a great idea. That's never been a problem historically apart from in every single case of unclear succession ever. Greyworm's off to Naath with all the Unsullied. JOKES ON HIM because Naath is actually home to KILLER BUTTERFLIES who murder anyone who isn't a natural inhabitant of that island (no, really!) So Jon's off to the wall? What do the Night's Watch do now? Are they anti-wildlings again? Did the Wildling's join the Night's Watch too or did they just sod off with Jon into the north? Why was Jon brought back to life in the end? To stand about and mumble "you are my queen" and "I dont want it", I guess Nice that all the political establishment of Westeros accepted Bronn as lord of one of the most powerful and rich Houses. Sure, why not? Again. God. It was fine, I guess. Way, way too rush to have any sort of impact though, and that's squarely on the writers (and they even had the choice of making more episodes!!! But they turned it down!! Madness!!!!) |
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Post by Bogatan on May 20, 2019 11:22:42 GMT
Its a little about venting for most people I imagine. I dont think for a second anyone expects they'll redo it. Bit of hyperbole in the "demand" but it gets people attention. I mean launching it before the season ended is bloody stupid, even if the main issue of rushing the last two seasons is largely accepted as not quite working even by people who aren't complaining. I think it's interesting, because there are very few people who mind *what* happened, just *how* it happened. Which is ODD. I mean some of the best early moments of the show were show-original (like the Arya+Tywin stuff in season 2) but this season they seem to have completely forgotten about how... humans work. Characters are just getting moved from point A to point B and it's really weird and unsatisfying and no thought at all seems to be given to 'why'. Spoiler
There's also a really sad interview with Emilia Clarke on Entertainment Weekly about this and how confused she was about how the character she had been playing suddenly turned into Dragon Hitler for little reason. Given how a lot of the cast have come across about the writing at the moment (and that's during the period where they HAVE to be nice about the show) I really wonder what will come out of the woodwork down the line.
Watched this week's ep. I thought it was okay. Not great, but not horrible so that's a step-up from the previous three weeks. Again, VERY rushed. Dany brought along her supervillain costume and gave mad crazy speeches. Greyworm is now a scowling villain (nice for them to decide he needs a personality but the last episode's a bit late).
Drogon is either the cleverest dragon (realising that really it was the power as symbolised by the Iron Throne that had corrupted Dany, and so melted it) or the stupidest dragon (seeing that she had been stabbed, he thought the chair made of knives had killed her and so took his revenge).
So Jaime and Cersei would have survived if they'd just stood a few steps back in that giant room? Oh well! Bet they feel silly now!
Sansa was just like, Jesus Christ, really? "OH YEAH THE NORTH IS NOW INDEPENDENT". Lucky everyone else just went along with it, sure, why not. You might imagine Dorne and the Iron Islands might have wanted to follow suit, but no, the writers forgot about their entire motivations, so it all worked out. Also I liked when Sansa decided she needed to shout to everyone that Bran's impotent. Nice one Sansa, good wingman there!
Tyrion being all "surely the greatest story of them all is the boy who fell out of a tower" and meanwhile Arya is standing there being all a Faceless Man assassin who killed the Night's King.
They all hail Bran as 'Bran the Broken'. Poor guy Like, wowwwwww rude.
But Tyrion is right. Having a ruler with no clear heir is a great idea. That's never been a problem historically apart from in every single case of unclear succession ever.
Greyworm's off to Naath with all the Unsullied. JOKES ON HIM because Naath is actually home to KILLER BUTTERFLIES who murder anyone who isn't a natural inhabitant of that island (no, really!)
So Jon's off to the wall? What do the Night's Watch do now? Are they anti-wildlings again? Did the Wildling's join the Night's Watch too or did they just sod off with Jon into the north?
Why was Jon brought back to life in the end? To stand about and mumble "you are my queen" and "I dont want it", I guess
Nice that all the political establishment of Westeros accepted Bronn as lord of one of the most powerful and rich Houses. Sure, why not?
Again. God. It was fine, I guess. Way, way too rush to have any sort of impact though, and that's squarely on the writers (and they even had the choice of making more episodes!!! But they turned it down!! Madness!!!!)
SpoilerIt was fine, in some respects better than I expected in its own right, it was just brought down by the last two episodes specifically and the last two seasons generally.
As you say its not what happened but how. Its was always fairly likely that Dany would end up that way, but that doesnt mean you can just have Tyrion tell us what happened to her after the fact. Going from killing hundreds of slave masters to killing an unpleasant but basically not evil Sams Dad because he wouldnt swear loyalty already seemed like a step or two had been missed. Then they made it worse by killing, the seems alright, Sams brother. But to go from that to burning women and children while showing no remorse was just bad writing.
At no point has she attempted to win over the Seven Kingdoms she just dove in to mass murder. And the only reason seems to be they decided to cut the seasons so didn't have the episodes to show her trying.
I was hoping Jon would come in to kill Dany and Arya would whip her mask off and shush him.
I liked Brienne completing Jamies entry but as others have mentioned they could have also showed her starting hers.
So Jons gone rogue or just plans a far more laid back chill Nightswatch. Which is fine as long as hes on good terms with the Wildings hes doing his job. I am a bit confused as why they didnt just wait for Greyworm to leave and forget about the whole thing.
Absolutely no one saying "hang on" to Sansa declaring independence was laugh out loud funny, because if there were another season you know the fall out from that declaration would be a BIG part of the story.
And Aryas spin off show is all lined up for if/when the prequels fail.
Bronn master of Coins? ??
I was also amused that Royce was stil alive and I suspect the only character in the series not to have a character arc, or change of rank, status he just kept ok going while everything changed around him (along with Robin Arryn I suppose, but his Mum was in charge till she died so I consider that a change of status)
Weirdly what saved it for me was Drogon and Ghost. I cant decide Drogons exact motivation but the whole scene was lovely. And whose a good doggy. |
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Post by blueshift on May 20, 2019 11:27:23 GMT
I was fine with the Brienne bit. It's the Kingsguard commander who gets to write the book, so the fact it was her writing it was enough!
Obviously Jon told everyone that he norked Dany, but given she, the dragon and all evidence was gone he could have just said "oh man, Grey Worm, she just took off! You gotta go find her. She went east, take uh, all the unsullied with you and don't come back until she does, also I'm king in the meantime". But I guess Jon just did a Ned Stark when he should have done a Littlefinger.
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Post by Bogatan on May 20, 2019 11:45:30 GMT
Spoiler
I did think that too.
Mostly though I had come to the conclusion that Jon would die because Kit Harrington had decided he would spend 8 years doing a Sean Bean impression. So him surviving came as a surprise. |
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Like, wowwwwww rude.