X-Men

[Philip Ayres]

I have a comic related itch I need to scratch:

I've got a long love affair with the X-Men starting with UXM 176 (actually that's not true - it starts with either the Bizzare Adventures 27 reprints in an UK X-Men winter special or with X-Men 144 reprinted in Mighty World of Marvel) Interrupted only by the Segal run (which I thought pushed the reset button and made the bk rest on it's laurels) and resumed by the Morrison/Quitely run (isn't E for Extinction something else ????)

I'm starting to get the feeling that the X-Books don't quite know what they are and where they're going. What I'm reading now and enjoying is Captain America, Iron Fist and the Brubaker Daredevil. The closest X-Men comes to these is X-Factor which I enjoy the most consistently out of any of the X-Books at the moment. X-Men itself seems to have lost it's way post Morrison and I'm not sure what can be done to find it again (or it's new way )

Post Messiah Complex the entire X-Men idea seems to be on hold until UXM 500 (! I remember when 200 came out and was a big thing !) pending a put together in a new way then

So.......

Anyone got any ideas how they'd do X-Men differently/how they think Marvel would put the team back together ?

[Andy Turnbull]

House of M broke the X-Men. This No More Mutants bollocks, which seemed like a 180 degree shift to finally erase the last vestiges of the Grant Morrison run (which for me was the last time the X-books had anything worthwhile to say).

The problem was the X-Men books became so big, they had to move away from the initial feel of the books. Every time someone tries to relaunch New Mutants or show Xavier's as school (save Morrison) it feels forced.

X-Factor at the moment seems to be the only book with it's own voice, but you can always count on PAD.

To get the book back on track I think there has to be a clearing of the decks. I don't mean a mass cull of characters but just letting them fade away.

Professor X and Magneto do not need to be in the X-universe anymore. They just seem to go through the same old tired cycle of character arcs. Let them go. Professor X is almost as broken as Iron Man. He's such a bastard now there is no way back for the character. Deadly Genesis while a good mini-series completely erased any of the nobility the character once had.

The book needs a direction and fast. The promise of more mutant births does seem to finally be getting the last of the stink of House of M off the franchise.

X-Men: Protecting A World That Hates and Fears Us.

There hasn't been much of this in far too long and that's the core concept that it needs to go back to. I'd love to see a writer have the balls to turn round and have the X-Men go to the United Nations and complain about the systematic human rights abuses perpetrated on mutantkind by the United States Government and many of it's agencies and have them as appointed as some UN sponsored outreach group protecting mutant rights and on occasion providing intervention. Give them some of that X-corps appeal but make it plain they are hated in the US as a result. Almost like Ellis' Stormwatch run.

Wolverine's position on the team can be called into question and you could have him leave the X-books entirely. At least for a while. If you want to have the larger cast, then take the approach that not all team members will be needed at all times.

Also, there are far too many "leaders" in the X-Men. Find something else for some of them to do. You can't say that they wouldn't find homes elsewhere and doing more important things.

Andy

[The Doctor]

Midgets.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Good point about House of M. When I was growing up X-Men was about change and bringing new characters in....

... in the early days of me reading thecomics there were 2 major reboots of the team. Each took 3 members of the previous team, brought back an older X-Man and brouyght 3 new ones in. The point I took a major break from the book was when they reshuffled the cast to just bring older X-Men back.

If I were rebooting the team I'd bring Aurora and Northstar in straight off as they'r both mutants without a home at the mo, and you get so much with both of them to start with. I'd also bring Sabra in as I think there's some good untapped stuff there (the Op Zero Tollerance stuff with her showed promise) Nightcrawler needs some love - there's Austin damage stil to sort out with his religous beliefs.

Can you do X-Men without Cyclops and Wolverine ? Is X-Men Legacy a prophetic title for a comic to provide a home for all the old X-Men ?

Leaders: At least they seem to have finally found a way to get rid of Storm. Her story ran out years ago IMO.

Midgets: Are you proposing Puck for the X-Men ?

How about Brand New Day'ing X-Men and making it one book 2/3/4 times a month ?

[Andy Turnbull]

You can certainly do the X-Men books without Wolverine. I think he's far too exposed and should be left alone from the X-books for a while. After all the initial reason Chuck brought him in was his potential as a leader type and as a hero - doesn't necessarily mean with the X-Men.

I agree about Storm, a character who long since ceased to be interesting.

Nightcrawler definitely needs to be cured of the Austenitis he suffered, and that Draco bollocks. I'd love for Marvel to go and do his origin as Claremont envisaged him with Destiny being his mother and Mystique his father.

Taking Cyclops out of the X-Men. I'd certainly put him in a more support focused role. Or at the very least give some good story purpose as to why he isn't in all the time.

Northstar and Aurora in the X-Men. I'd love Aurora to be in the book, especially to see how she deals with the charming, flirty Nightcrawler given her mental issues.

If you were going to Brand New Day the X-Men then the antagonists need to be severely beefed up. There's a bit of a lack of them at the moment.

I agree about Sabra, OZT did show she had a lot of promise but it came to nothing. I know she was supposed to join Excalibur before it got canned. A mercy killing at that point though given Ben Raab's presence as writer.

How it pains me that Cassady never got to draw the book properly as he was scheduled to do. A John Cassady drawn Captain Britain would have made me very happy indeed.

So what would your line up for the team be Phil? Active roster and support team?

Andy

[Philip Ayres]

...... Hmmm. Nightcrawler, Aurora & Northstar, Sabra as above.... A few more ?

Originals: Not Cyclops, not Phoenix from the originals..... Maybe Iceman and/or the Beast. Iceman would be good if you had Northstar as Iceman is the only comics charactrer Northstar has ever really expressed an interest in, but is definitely not that way inclined. Austin brought this up and then never did anything with it !

Havok & Polaris and Gambit & Rogue both have very bad couple baggage attached to them so they're out. (best Havok ? Austin when he had him come back and not with Polaris. All went down hill when they chucked Annie* out)

2 odd character spring to mind: Cecillia Reyes: someone who really didn't want to be there. Mileage to be had with her, and although she was rumoured dead at one pt I think recent MU sources list her as alive.

Lifeguard: Hardly seen in the last few years, and only in 18 issues at most. Got to be worth a try

Maybe Collossus. Kitty is rumoured to be a bit busy elsewhere (and I don't mean dead either !) Isn't Psylocke in Exiles ? Not sure there's any Mileage in Dazzler or Longshot at the moment. Banshee's Dead. Maggot's dead - though at least one of the slugs is still around so you resurrect him through that. Sunfire's a villain at the mo I think but there's scope there to rehbilitate him ! Marrow was always just a Wolverine ripoff. Jubilee & Chamber are depowered and in New Warriors. Sage is busy protecting the multiverse. Where did Juggernaut end up ?

That leaves possibly Forge, Cannonball..... Though some new more mature characters might be a good idea too....

* Annie - a good human POV character would be useful.

[Andy Turnbull]

If Iceman is in the team, then no bollocks about him wasting his potential. Just have him show why he was considered to be an omega-level mutant at one point. Heh the Northstar attention could be fun.

I'd certainly have Forge on my team, a much under-used character.

No Gambit or Rogue either, Havok and Polaris bore me as well. cecilia Reyes could be interesting as well. Her connection to Iceman make her a decent addition.

All in all a pretty decent team you've picked out. I shall have a think about my line-up and see what I can come up with.

Andy

[Philip Ayres]

eXtreme X-Men gets some flack but it did skim off several characters from the other 2 X-Men books and allowed them some breathing space. At the same time it's the last pt that Storm actually worked. Similarly the end of Rise & Fall of Shiar empire has taken Havok, Polaris and Rachel out of the picture. Hmmmm. Some sort of mass disapearance for the older X-Men ? (the title X-Men Legacy again makes me think of a dumping ground for older characters)

But some new characters would be good. One of the problems with having an New Mutants type book is it forces all the new characters to be inexperienced teenagers as you can't really fit an inexperienced older mutant into into a teen group or a experienced team when there's a junior team around...... a team of non skilled older mutants might be an idea....

[jameso]

I only read X-Men in the trades so I haven't read any Mike Carey, 'year' 2 of Astonishing X-Men, or Dominant Species or Messiah Complex yet. I thought the idea of M Day had some potential, but Marvel couldn't bring themselves to actually depower any of the X-Men - they teased Iceman, Polaris and Chamber, as well as Professor X and Magneto, but in various ways none of them stuck, which marred the whole concept for me.
I did however much prefer the New X-Men idea that mutants were going to become the norm and the genetic strain of homo sapien was becoming extinct.

I am of the mind that as long as you are doing something new with the X-Men it's ok - wholesale loss of mutant powers that lasts more than one issue, fine, it's relatively original, go with it. Much better than 'let's all get into spandex and sit around the mansion'.

Also, with regard to character's longevity, I really think this is down to the creators. Cyclops' story ended in Uncanny 201, Jean's in Uncanny 137, Magneto's early 200, Professor X around the sametime as Jean's - but then Grant Morrison made all those characters cool as fuck and proved how much life they had left in them.

I think the X-Men have suffered from some lame editors, too. They seemed to love Chuck Austen and had a chronic inability to understand New X-Men.

I'd change the X-Men by cancelling Astonishing X-Men immediately. It looks breathtaking, but the line cannot maintain a book on its schedule - it drags everything down with it. I also think you need one core book, in this case, Uncanny. Have as many spin offs as you like, but you can't have 3 books set in the mansion whose cast don't run into each other. By all means, have different books with the cast all operating out of the mansion if one book is the New Mutants, and another book is the black ops team that don't go on regular X-Men missions - but 3 books with the same agenda, no.

Also, if you are going to bring back dead characters, do something with them - Joss Wheddon, I am looking at you.

[Philip Ayres]

Austen had some good ideas: Juggernaut, Northstar, bringing Havok back, putting a new human POV character in. He had some bad ones too: bringing back Polaris, anything involving religion or Nightcrawler or both.

[Shockprowl]

thedoctor said:

Midgets.

-Ralph

-tears are rolling down my face!


I'm thinkinga getting some TPBs of recent X-Men comics. What would you recommend folkes in the know?


Ian

[Philip Ayres]

E for Extinction. You need nothing else. it's the first Morrison/Quitely collection and is superb. Thought there's a new 3 volume compilation of the entire Morrison run in the works in July.

If you've already got that then howabout some of the Mike Carey volumes ?

[legios]

I'd second that vote for "E for Extinction" - and I would extend it to say that the whole of Grant Morrison's run is worth a read. Strong contender for one of my favourite runs on the X-Men in a long time. (Helps that Morrison really "gets" some of my favourite X-Men characters - Cyclops for example). His run includes what is, for me the best "last Magneto story" anyone has done as well (in the "Planet X" trade)

Karl

[The Doctor]

The Morrison run is the only x-men comics you need.

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

Right going back to the team lineup discussion early I've pretty much got my line up. (I've even started sketching a mock cover featuring them)

My first pick is Nightcrawler as team leader. It's been hammered home by more than a few writers that Nightcrawler believes in the dream. Probably more than most of the X-Men. He's also shown to be a capable leader as well. Next up is Forge. Even when he's been part of the team he has skirted around on the periphery a lot as writers never seem quite clear on what to do with this mutant technological savant. He's an important asset to any team, his abilities providing not only technical expertise but also financial resources. Sell a few patents and make some money. Like Phil I've went for Northstar and Aurora as I think they've been sadly under-used in the Marvel Universe over the years. Aurora's personality issues would make for some good reading and it'd be interesting how she played against the charming and flirty Nightcrawler. Northstar of course can be the team agitator.

Next up we have the most powerful non-telepathic mutant the X-Men have ever had - Iceman. This time none of this looking for his potential. He's found it. He knows how to use his powers to their fullest and wisecracks aside is a powerful asset to the team.

Next up - Scarlet Witch. There's no chance in hell an Avengers team will want Wanda mixed up with them. The events of disassembled have caused too many problems. Where better for her to end up than with the X-men?

Rounding out the team if he could be tempted away from X-Factor would be Madrox. I've always liked the character and as can been seen in X-Factor he offers a lot of interesting possibilities.

The X-Men wouldn't be based in the School anymore. I'd have them on Muir Isle. A relatively secure contained facility meaning if they are teaching or detaining any powerful mutants there's a degree of isolation.

Andy

[jameso]

Scarlet Witch on the X-Men is/would be very interesting.

[Andy Turnbull]

It's something that would generate a lot of good material and avoids the obvious rejoin the Avengers (loads of tension and trust issues bollocks) storyline - which sadly is probably what would happen eventually.

Andy

[primenova]

What ever happened to that adamX guy X-men #39

[Andy Turnbull]

He featured in some of Fabian Nicieza's Captain Marvel run where he was revealed to be a shiar and not the third Summers brother.

Andy

[kayevcee]

After House of M I'd be amazed if Wanda could show her face around any of the world's remaining mutants without getting it ripped, punched, blasted or frozen off.

-Nick

[Andy Turnbull]

So what better place for her than with the X-Men?

Andy

[legios]

It would certainly be good for a bit of unforced tension - they would have a genuine reason to fear and hate her, but at the same time their entire raison d'etre is to stand up for those that are feared and hated..... It isn't a bad idea - and it would be bringing the character back home to the brand where she originated.

I actually like a lot of folks choices here. Northstar and Aurora are not characters I immediately look at and think "X-Men", but they have a lot of potential and, when written well, are quite good characters to use to spark off other members of a cast.

I haven't really put much thought into who I would want in an X-Men lineup. I have clearer ideas of who I _wouldn't_ want. No Wolverine - he has is own book to support him, and is forging ties to the Avengers franchise which perhaps allows new notes to be played with Wolverine. No Charles, because they have managed to comprehensively make him look like one of the most underhanded, heartless and twisted folk in the Marvel Universe over recent years. Bad enough when Chris Claremont was just hinting about him being a bit "creepy" but he is so comprehensively blackened now that it is best to rest him and look to rehabilitate the character later.

And most importantly , no Magneto. He's done, finished. Pretty much everything you could say with the character has been comprehensively said, and Morrison delivered the capstone to the character nicely. He's done. Move on, new villian please.



Karl

[Philip Ayres]

I think what they're doing with xavier in XM:Legacy might be interesting. and you'll never guess who shows up on the last page. And what they're doing with him at the moment is a little interesting as to is he/isn't he.....

[The Doctor]

I still think midgets is the answer. Just imagine a whole team of x-men midgets. Like Puck, but loads of him.

-Ralph

[legios]

What , all drinking Canadian beer and saying "eh?", eh?

Karl

[The Doctor]

Of course.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

admin said:

The X-Men wouldn't be based in the School anymore. I'd have them on Muir Isle. A relatively secure contained facility meaning if they are teaching or detaining any powerful mutants there's a degree of isolation.

Andy

If rumours are to be believed the X-Men are relocating to San Francisco. Which makes sense. they've got history there (early 200s of UXM, Xtreme X-Men) Possibly as the 50 state initiative to for California ?

Ian:

X-Men Ultimate Collection Book 1

X-Men Ultimate Collection Book 2

[Andy Turnbull]

Could be interesting. Just a shame that the pornstar trace-o-matic Greg Land is one of the new artists on UXM.

Andy

[The Doctor]

I dunno. Perhaps some porn could improve x-men comics.

-Ralph

[Shockprowl]

Apr 1, 2008 20:45:42 GMT Philip Ayres said:

admin said:

The X-Men wouldn't be based in the School anymore. I'd have them on Muir Isle. A relatively secure contained facility meaning if they are teaching or detaining any powerful mutants there's a degree of isolation.

Andy

If rumours are to be believed the X-Men are relocating to San Francisco. Which makes sense. they've got history there (early 200s of UXM, Xtreme X-Men) Possibly as the 50 state initiative to for California ?

Ian:

X-Men Ultimate Collection Book 1

X-Men Ultimate Collection Book 2

Thanks for the links there Phil. Look good. Better start saving up! I'm sure Piglet's feet'll sqeeze into her old shoes for another month!!!

Ian