primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,057
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Post by primenova on Aug 21, 2014 13:14:36 GMT
This is mainly toy related not comic/cartoon (so missing off all the why didn't Hasbro do a toy of ... insert comic only character here)
Why wasn't there anymore triple change headmasters?
Were the Monsterbots to counter the Horrorcons?
Why did we only have 2 six changers (I expect it was due to limit designs at the time)?
Where there going to be Duo-cons or that sort of themed characters?
Was Gnaw a try out for more Movie line toys? If other sharkticons where in the design stage.
Firecon etc - I liked the idea but where we going to get more flame shooters? (it's a good job they used the mouth & not the other end)
Pretender line - I also liked this line & wish they'd done a full on 30th ann toy. not just making a toy that looked like the shell.
Where did Hasbro come up with the idea of having bases? Optimus had the base repair bay trailer before the line was started but Hasbro followed on with the concept with the team leader who had base mode (only used in the toys never in comic or cartoon) maybe in a fanzine. We had bases every year almost.
Did Hasbro have any other ideas for Masters line? we had head gun engine - what else could a little figure transform into & attach. we also had the inner head if you cover the Japan UK released toys.
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,057
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Post by primenova on Aug 22, 2014 9:24:49 GMT
Hasbro should have started to do those mini comics in the toys sooner. Like the ones we had in Armada, Energon & on the leaflets in UK G1.5. But the story on the box did start with the Action Masters. Back in 87 time they could have had a 2 page comic on the end of the instruction manual that you could cut off & then staple the whole collection togetherto read the whole story. But this would mean you would need to find the boxed toys that had all the parts in if it was split into 12 mini comics. [so 22pages]
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 22, 2014 10:55:42 GMT
Micromasters: 3 moans I've made before
Hasbro should have realised the power of the character a few years early and made the Micromasters downsized 84/5 characters.
Should have publicised the Micromaster base connectivity better.
Should have released some Micromaster base robots in the west!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 22, 2014 11:16:43 GMT
I thought we'd done something similar like "Things Hasbro got wrong" or "More of Hasbro's greatest mistakes" before but the best I can find is Gimmicks Hasbro have ballsed up |
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,057
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Post by primenova on Aug 22, 2014 13:45:23 GMT
I had a look for a thread but one didn't match.
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 22, 2014 18:54:15 GMT
Hasbro should have realised the power of the character a few years early and made the Micromasters downsized 84/5 characters. This would have been fantastic. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 22, 2014 19:03:29 GMT
I've raised this one a few times: I think Hasbro saw the value of their existing character base just slightly too late.
I mean look how much everyone loves Micromaster Hot Rodimus ?
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Post by Toph on Aug 22, 2014 22:09:10 GMT
I dont think it should be only 84/85 cast. A mix of them, 86, and new characters would have been great.
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Jim
Thunderjet
Micromaster Backside Monitor
Now in glorious Ultra HD 4K
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Post by Jim on Aug 22, 2014 22:33:27 GMT
I like that micromasters gave us a wealth of new characters, the thing where all series must have some variant of Op, BB, Megatron, Starscream is something I find wearying. Hasbro not realising the power of their characters too soon is one of the things that has enriched the Transformers mythos for me!
I honestly wonder if it would have held my attention so well if special teams / -masters / pretenders had all just been 84/85 characters.
-Jim
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Post by Toph on Aug 22, 2014 23:00:14 GMT
Ordinarily i would completely agree. However, Micromasters were a different thing, being on a completely different scale, along with full playsets for the first thing ever.
I think a double dip, so long as the new wasn't ignored as well, would be justified.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 23, 2014 7:03:46 GMT
I like that micromasters gave us a wealth of new characters, the thing where all series must have some variant of Op, BB, Megatron, Starscream is something I find wearying. Hasbro not realising the power of their characters too soon is one of the things that has enriched the Transformers mythos for me! I honestly wonder if it would have held my attention so well if special teams / -masters / pretenders had all just been 84/85 characters. But don't you agree that the Marvel US TF comics in the late '80s would have been much better if Bob Budiansky hadn't been forced to cram in so many new toy characters each issue? The cast turnover was ridiculous, and very few characters had a chance to develop before they were killed off or forgotten on Hasbro's orders. But if there had been fewer new characters each year, and instead the main characters got new bodies/toys every time they got blown up - like in the Beast Wars cartoon - then character arcs would have been able to develop over longer periods. Maybe there are two extremes and the optimum is somewhere in the middle. Martin |
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Jim
Thunderjet
Micromaster Backside Monitor
Now in glorious Ultra HD 4K
Posts: 4,932
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Post by Jim on Aug 23, 2014 7:27:36 GMT
I agree that the optimum is usually somewhere in the middle, and think Action Masters managed it fairly well, but it would have been overdoing it for every time a new gimmick came along have to implement the same core characters with it. As a kid to self-employed parents we often didn't have a lot of money so my collection was limited, and if every year there was just a variation on the same characters I would probably have turned away sooner.
As for the US comics, it didn't bother me all that much at the time, only rereading as an adult did it ever strike me. With US stories having to be split up for the UK reprints they seemed to last longer anyway, which is probably mixed in with a bit of childhood perception of time and the fact that I would reread them so much. In my memory Backstreet looms large as a major character! (it probably also helped that I drew lots of comics and wrote text stories filling in all sorts of things back then)
-Jim
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2014 8:18:36 GMT
Action Masters managed it's use of new vs old character well yes, but unfortunately the basic premise of that line is flawed: Transformers who don't transform. You're almost 100% playing off the character recognition here and that's supported by stories many of us have told about buying the Action Masters that are the well known characters we liked from the cartoon.
At the same time a lot of what Action Masters and Micromasters are doing is VERY similar: small or non transforming figures with vehicles. From a pure toy point of view I think Micromasters does it better and I'm sure making a few of those toys older characters would have shifted a few more units.
1990 - the first Action Master year and second (full) Micromaster year kills the line in the US. What keeps it going here is having the classics toys on the shelves which is giving the fans exactly what they want: the older characters (and their toys) back again.
If you made Airwave = Thrust, the Sports Car Patrol = the Stunticons, Fixit = Ratchet, Stakeout = Prowl, Red Hot = Inferno, Air Strike Patrol = various Decepticon jets. I just think the line could have been so much stronger for that and it was a missed opportunity.
I think the basebots would have added something too, larger Transformers that for some reason didn't downsize. There's a big hole in 1990 that the range has no traditional Transformers in. Star Convoy in the west would have been a killer toy.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2014 10:10:51 GMT
It's interesting comparing Transformers use of character to Hasbro's other licensed property GI Joe.
GI Joe began in 82.
In 85 they released their first redone character, Snake Eyes. They also in 85 & 6 released a bunch of new characters that duplicated/replaced the functions of earlier ones. 85 is also the year that forms the Action Force launch line up in 87
86 we got new Hawk & Roadblock
87 Cobra Commander & Gung Ho
88 Storm Shadow & Destro plus a host of recoloured characters in Tiger Force & Night Force
89 Deep Six, Rock & Roll, Snake Eyes and Stalker plus recolours in Night Force, Python Patrol & Marauders
There's this feel that Hasbro very slowly gets the concept of reused characters
In Transformers it looks a little different. Nobody is explicitly reused pre 87. Galvatron's toy isn't Megatron.
But
87 Goldbug is Bumblebee* and in Japan Soundblaster & Broadcast are Soundwave & Blaster
88 Powermaster Optimus Prime (yet in Japan Ginrai isn't? Mad decision)
89 4 x Classic Pretenders
90 Action Masters
They get the idea slightly too late for Micromasters which means an explosion of new smaller toys with ill defined characters.
* Bumblbee as Goldbug is an interesting point. It imeadiately makes you think "If Goldbug is Bumblebee, are the other Throttlebots meant to be reincarnated Year 1 Minibots?" and you can quickly draw parallels beween the two groups. The same, as I've often said, is true for certain 86 Special Team members
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2014 10:14:03 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2014 10:15:51 GMT
Did Hasbro have anyother dieas for Masters line? we had head gun engine - what else could a little figure transform into & attach. we also had the inner head if you cover the Japan Uk released toys. Brainmasters & Breastforce both fall into this category tfwiki.net/wiki/Brainmasterstfwiki.net/wiki/Breastforce |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2014 10:18:25 GMT
Pretender line - I also liked this line & wish they'd done a full on 30th ann toy. not just making a toy that looked like the shell. We floated the idea of doing Pretender shells for Legends figures a few years ago. I think the problem with this is that to be a decent upgrade we'd have expectations of a much higher count for articulation points on the shell. I suspect doing anything to raise articulation in the legs would make them a non starter. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2014 10:20:36 GMT
Where did Hasbro come up with the idea of having bases? Optimus had the base repair bay trailer before the line was started but Hasbro followed on with the concept with the team leader who had base mode [only used in the toys never in comic or cartoon] maybe in a fanzine. We had bases every year almost. Bases were a popular concept in the years leading up to and during Transformers: Look at Micronauts, Star Wars, GI Joe and Action Force. Heck every kid our age had a castle or a fort. Now they're almost solely the province of younger children's toys. Huzzah for Generations Metroplex striking a blow for base modes! |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2014 10:24:28 GMT
PETE: I've taken the square brackets out your post as one example was triggering some formatting! Square brackets are used to give formatting commands to the board so don't use them, use round ones ( ) instead!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2014 12:43:39 GMT
Was Gnaw a try out for more Movie line toys? If other sharkticons where in the design stage. Gnaw isn't the only Movie line toy: There's Rodimus & Wreck Gar too. You could argue Galvatron, Scourge & Cyclonus and Blurr, Hot Rod & Kup are too but they were all on the shelves long before the movie. In the US he came packed with the Predacons |
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Post by Toph on Aug 23, 2014 17:37:00 GMT
I agree that the optimum is usually somewhere in the middle, and think Action Masters managed it fairly well, but it would have been overdoing it for every time a new gimmick came along have to implement the same core characters with it. As a kid to self-employed parents we often didn't have a lot of money so my collection was limited, and if every year there was just a variation on the same characters I would probably have turned away sooner. -Jim I don't think anyone is suggesting recycling characters for every single new gimmick. Just micromasters. That said, on this topic of recycled characters, I was absolutely thrilled to see the pretender classics and powermaster optimus. I never had Jazz or Starscream, Bumblebee was dramatically superior, and not only had my original optimus broke, the new one looked even cooler. Then the actionmasters were so awesome because they looked mostly like they did in the comics and cartoon. I'd have killed for Optimus, Megatron, and others to have been in the micromasters so i could have them in the first real elaborate cities. They also could have ignored the "downsizing" aspect. |
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,057
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Post by primenova on Aug 23, 2014 22:35:37 GMT
Thanks Philip. Hasbro could have used the 4 pages combine team comic in the toys. Hasbro didn't mess up with giving us awful comics in packs but they missed the idea of getting us to buy the toys to get the whole comic.
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