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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 13, 2015 11:31:20 GMT
Bogatan makes an interesting point in the 3PThread that's worth some discussion I know where Ralph is coming from. Even back in the day, the 80's and 90's if it wasnt Transformers, it wasn't Transformers. Even official things like Macross Jetfire wasn't Jetfire. Omegatron wasn't Omega Supreme. KO TMNTs when the real things were sold out across the UK filled in but were never TMNT. My KO MOTU Mossman joined in with my MOTU but wasn't Mossman (in fairness it was bright orange and didn't have a furry covering so most people would probably have shared my view). My Diaclone Browning is my Transformers Browning, but thats about as far as my whats a Transformers goes. At what point are not Transformers toylines close enough for us to turn a blind eye? As discussed elsewhere most of 1984 and 1985 come from other toylines, in particular Diaclon and Micro ChangeWill a toy from these lines make a decent substitute for a missing TF? Or will a toy from these lines that wasn't released in Transformers, Police Car Sunstreaker for example, make a decent addition to your Transformers forces? Then there's where Transformers have gone: many TF showed up in Brave. Do you allow these toys into your TF collection? Do you allow other Brave toys, of a similar design to TF, into your Cybertron forces? Does your Micromaster city involve the bases recycled in Brave and the turn of the century Microman toys? Then what about the toy within Transformers that don't quite fit the established aesthetic? Beast Machines, Movie, Animated, Prime & it's spin offs? |
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Post by Bogatan on Feb 13, 2015 11:45:55 GMT
It's really arbitrary with me. I got Dugbase brand new in a sealed boxed as a Grandus stand in and never much liked it. On the other hand I got the Brave Six/Greatshot remould and it was happily adopted in to my Transformer ranks. I'm to scared of the gold and smoke plastic on the Countdown base to have an opinion of it. It's only spent about 20 minutes of the 7 or 8 years I've owned it out of the bubble wrap it came in.
On the whole Brave seems a lot more a Transformers line than Animorphs, Marvel or Star Wars crossovers despite them having the name on the packaging.
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 13, 2015 15:39:13 GMT
The more I think about this the more I realise that inside specific continuities it comes down to the character.
To explain that - all official lines are valid, but some official lines don't mix and therefore become their own continuities. I adore Animated, but I wouldn't have Animated toys mixed with G1 or CHUG because they just don't go together. That doesn't mean they aren't 'real' Transformers though, they absolutely are. The aesthetic is just so different they don't look like they're part of the same line.
Inside a continuity it comes down to whether or not the figure represents a character effectively. Therefore I can accept Quakewave as an acceptable stand in for an MP Shockwave because there's no other option. I don't consider Omegatron an acceptable stand in for Omega Supreme because he's the wrong colour.
When it comes to other lines sharing moulds, like Diaclone or Brave, I don't see why they can't keep their distinct characters and just be from another planet in the same continuity. The Aligned Continuity was kind of heading that way anyway with the number of different worlds that Transformer and even non-transformer life ended up on.
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 13, 2015 15:41:42 GMT
I am not sponsored to use the word continuity by the way.
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 13, 2015 16:14:38 GMT
I'm starting to REALLY like Pinwig.
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on Feb 13, 2015 16:30:47 GMT
I'm starting to REALLY like Pinwig. Hint for Pinwig - Shockers likes it when you tickle his tummy and call him Debbie. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 13, 2015 16:42:04 GMT
Sshh you! I don't want him to think I'm easy!
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 13, 2015 17:07:52 GMT
The question is, does excessive tickling lead to him turning into a gun or a car?
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 13, 2015 17:14:28 GMT
Oh good question. In truth, I am a TRIPLE CHANGER! Robot, police car and Space Gun modes!
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 13, 2015 17:16:50 GMT
If I ever become a millionaire I'd make that toy (with my own 3P company) and send one to all my Cyber-chumbs.
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on Feb 13, 2015 22:52:46 GMT
I think you're omitting the Tickle-Me Elmo style touch pads and sounds this toy clearly needs to have.
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 14, 2015 13:03:41 GMT
I foresee leaking lubricants, Prime.
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Post by Benn on Feb 14, 2015 14:22:03 GMT
If I ever become a millionaire I'd make that toy (with my own 3P company) and send one to all my Cyber-chumbs. Everyone needs their own plastic counterpart. |
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Post by legios on Feb 18, 2015 8:52:48 GMT
From my perspective, any toy that was released as a part of a distinct "Transformers" line counts as a Transformer - whether that be Beast Machines, Beast Wars, Classics or Zone. There are differences in aesthetics - which is part of the fun, things need to be reinvented every so often or it becomes very samey - but they are all Transformers.
When it comes to toys from other lines which weren't released as Transformers I'd be less inclined to put them in my Transformers collection - I wouldn't class my Macross or Mospeada stuff as part of my Transformers collection because they have a heritage of their own (a very small footnote one in the case of the latter, but nevertheless). Likewise with Brave, that is a franchise in its own right with at least one fairly big hitter "name" involved and it feels like it would devalue what Brave is to say "oh well, just make them part of my Transformers collection". (sure, I have made jokes about my Brave toys being "former citizens of the Cybertronian Empire", but that is as much a joke at my own expense given my tendency to slyly "borrow" things from the franchise for background supporting characters in fan-fiction at times as a serious position)
Similarly, if not more so, with Diaclone - the importance of Diaclone in terms of the evolution of the current landscape of the Transformable mecha sub-genre is reasonably significant. Both in terms of how it's toys were "localised" to create Transformers, probably the most successful franchise in the genre in the West, and in terms of giving the initial "foot in the door" to two quite significant mechanical designers/directors in the genre in Japan. I'd be more inclined to see a Diaclone toy as a Diaclone toy than a "surrogate" transformer I think.
Karl
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 18, 2015 8:57:43 GMT
From my perspective, any toy that was released as a part of a distinct "Transformers" line counts as a Transformer - whether that be Beast Machines, Beast Wars, Classics or Zone. There are differences in aesthetics - which is part of the fun, things need to be reinvented every so often or it becomes very samey - but they are all Transformers. See to me the aesthetic is quite important and I struggle when robots come out that don't look right on my shelves. |
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Post by legios on Feb 18, 2015 9:08:39 GMT
That doesn't worry me so much - I have mecha from different franchises sharing space on the shelves freely, let alone from different bits of the same franchise.There are so many different aesthetics out there - at least one for every different mechanical designer (and often more than one per designer) that it was inevitable I would end up with a buffet of different looks.
It is horses-for-courses though, we all look at this stuff slightly differently don't we? And as long as we are enjoying it then where's the harm?
Karl
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I know where Ralph is coming from. Even back in the day, the 80's and 90's if it wasnt Transformers, it wasn't Transformers. Even official things like Macross Jetfire wasn't Jetfire. Omegatron wasn't Omega Supreme. KO TMNTs when the real things were sold out across the UK filled in but were never TMNT. My KO MOTU Mossman joined in with my MOTU but wasn't Mossman (in fairness it was bright orange and didn't have a furry covering so most people would probably have shared my view).
