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Post by Llama God on Mar 27, 2015 21:04:31 GMT
Well this is... interesting. Paramount have put Akiva Goldsman in charger of a Disney/Marvel-esque Transformers franchise: screencrush.com/transformers-franchise-sequels-spinoffs/I'll reserve judgement for the moment, because Goldsman has been responsible for some good stuff, and for some terrible stuff. And still, even if Transformers 5 ends up being Batman & Robin levels of quality, that's still going to be an improvement on Age of Exstinktion... |
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 27, 2015 23:30:53 GMT
I wonder what the implication is of the franchise becoming a 'universe'. Does that mean films based around solo characters, films set in different locations that come together, EG Cybertron, or other toylines like GI Joe getting crossovers.
All seems a bit ambitious.
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Post by Llama God on Mar 28, 2015 0:18:53 GMT
Ambitious? Perhaps. But they're already miles ahead of DC...
"Hey, those Marvel guys are setting up a cinematic universe full of B-level characters. Given that we own the three most recognisable superheroes in the world, what do you think we should do about it?"
"I think we should sit on our hands for at least seven years and do nothing about it. Even if it's successful for Marvel."
"Sounds like a plan."
Most things these days are a "franchise universe". Not just Marvel and DC, but Fox are capitalising on their properties by trying to make them a coherent whole, Sony have leapt into bed with Marvel, Disney are going to be putting out a Star Wars film every year, and every dystopic YA novel is being optioned by the remaining studios that aren't involved in any of those. It makes absolutely perfect sense for Hasbro and Paramount to be doing this now. And yeah, they may be a little bit behind DC, but to be fair, DC should've responded a decade ago - their dithering has left the gate wide open. And there's more than enough intellectual property in the Transformers universe to spin a shit-ton of films out of.
Personally, I'm hoping for a similar approach to what Disney's doing with Star Wars - regular main films featuring the main characters, with stand-alone films contributing in some ways (and presumably telling slightly different types of story). I don't know whether they'd want to cross over with other franchises (notably G.I. Joe), but you know, if it works.
The main thing, really, is that they just need to make some good films. You'd think it'd be obvious, given Marvel's successes. But then look and see how much money Bay's Transformers films made, and, well... weep. Just weep.
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 28, 2015 12:43:00 GMT
I do see all that, but I can't help but feel that Transformers isn't a big enough name to warrant this. Star Wars, yes, Marvel super heroes, yes. Transformers seems to do well with a film every three years or so, although we have to acknowledge that the bulk of the money AoE made came from China, but a TF Universe film every year? apart from us, does anyone care enough? Would we even care when the first standalone inevitably turns out to be about Drift?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 28, 2015 15:45:43 GMT
I wish Transformers was still a joint venture between Hasbro and Marvel. I think a couple of Transformers films would be great as part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. No Primus, Unicron or Cybertronian Empire, just two ships' crews of TFs awakening in a volcano on Earth and the Autobots having to team up with the Avengers to beat the Decepticons. Movie adaptation of the early Marvel years, perhaps with Tony Stark replacing G.B. Blackrock. Is that so much to ask?
Yes - rhetorical question - I know it is.
I know I'm at odds with many TF fans on this, but I think TFs will never make great human-like characters in live-action movies. However good the voice actors and CGI, they can't match top human actors playing real people, and they shouldn't try. TFs should aim to be alien robots seen through the eyes of humans, and the best TF live-action movie will be the one with the best human cast available and the robots as robots, with emotions and personalities that robots might have, but without trying to make them into a bunch of guys.
Martin
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 28, 2015 16:08:46 GMT
I know I'm at odds with many TF fans on this, but I think TFs will never make great human-like characters in live-action movies. However good the voice actors and CGI, they can't match top human actors playing real people, and they shouldn't try. TFs should aim to be alien robots seen through the eyes of humans, and the best TF live-action movie will be the one with the best human cast available and the robots as robots, with emotions and personalities that robots might have, but without trying to make them into a bunch of guys. That would be awesome. That says "Man of Iron - The Movie" to me. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 28, 2015 16:19:10 GMT
I know I'm at odds with many TF fans on this, but I think TFs will never make great human-like characters in live-action movies. However good the voice actors and CGI, they can't match top human actors playing real people, and they shouldn't try. TFs should aim to be alien robots seen through the eyes of humans, and the best TF live-action movie will be the one with the best human cast available and the robots as robots, with emotions and personalities that robots might have, but without trying to make them into a bunch of guys. That would be awesome. That says "Man of Iron - The Movie" to me. To be fair, the first half of the first Bay movie was kind of like that until the Autobots spoilt it by opening their mouths and going from mysterious robots in disguise to a bunch of macho blokes. If only the human cast had been of a higher standard, that first hour could have been TFs on screen as I would wish it to be... Martin |
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 28, 2015 20:46:42 GMT
Transformers has plenty of range for a cinematic universe, but I can't decide if the Bayverse does.
I doubt they are about a to reboot a movie series making that much money, where ever it is being made. So its going to be the Bayverse. And it should beas starting again just doesnt make sense, to the wider public thats what Transformers is (for good or bad), start rebooting and you find yourself where DC are and Sony are with Spiderman.
Anyway the way AOE ended there's two films set up right away. TF5 set on Earth and Prime blasting off in to space. After Guardians of the Galaxy and with Star Wars ramping up Space adventures is back and thats where Transformers has room to grow.
Prime in Space opens up the universe and presumably is heading in a Quintesson related direction which certainly has potential alternatively they can take some inspiration from IDW which has developed a pretty rich universe. It could also set up a fresh set of characters making their way to Earth, which at this point is pretty light on Transformers and handled right could be used as a proper soft reboot as opposed to the Season 2 inspired dropping new characters in each episode without explanation.
Pros:
A new environment could allow us to see the noble Prime in action instead of Kill them all Prime.
An Earth based movie without Prime, leaving Bee in charge is the same premise IDW RID and CN RID have used in the last few years, tonally very different but both versions have potential.
Bay wont be able to direct them all even if he does return.
TF vs GIJoe - well the comics been a surprise success and I'm a sucker for films with The Rock in them (Ive even sat through The Toothfairy)
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Post by Toph on Mar 29, 2015 5:01:05 GMT
Honestly, I think the bayverse is too violent and too abstract.
I don't see this working without a reboot and a solid plan. Otherwise it's following in DC's bootprints of just throwing whatever random thing they can at the wall and seeing what sticks. MoS2: Superman vs Batman seems to be a trainwreck in the making for this very reason, and anything bay is already a Trainwreck.
WB has no master plan, and is jumping on the bandwagon. This reeks of bandwagon jumping. What makes marvel so successful is there IS a master plan. We're just now seeing things they planned out when they put the very first Ironman in theaters.
With a reboot, they CAN lay out a cohesive plan. Start with Transformers, which would be a world-changing event. Advanced Alien robots on earth.
Set this up as a LotR style two parter with a cliffhanger ending for part one, and follow up the next year. End with most of the transformers either leaving, or going underground and in hiding.
Then, build on this with MASK, where this new advanced tech is changing the world. Then build this world more with GI Joe.
In the meantime, they can do in-continuity direct to DVD animated features that worldbuilds the transformers in ways thats too expensive for movies.
Also, if they make the TF designs less radical, then they wouldn't be as expensive to animate.
And that brings back to another reason I doubt this will work. Expense.
Everyone complains about how little the transformers are actually in their own movies. But these four films are some of the most expensive movies ever made, a piece. And look how little they show up. Every second a robot is on screen literally costs millions of dollars. That is at least 80% of the budget.
I can't see a movie in this live-action style that doesn't revolve mostly around humans. It isn't fiscally reasonable.
And a fully animated theatrical movie that isn't this style would get labeled a "kiddie movie" by the audience they want bay to attract.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 29, 2015 7:30:10 GMT
Easy solution to the expense issue - do more with the TFs in their disguise modes. The original concept in 1984 was that they spend most of their time on Earth disguised as cars, etc. and just change to their upright forms for battle. The Autobots should be like KITT in Knight Rider most of the time. It's not rocket science.
One thing I never understood was why in the live-action movies the Autobots only seem able to speak when in robot mode.
Martin
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Mar 29, 2015 9:16:43 GMT
Anthropomorphic bias of film makers and consumers?
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 29, 2015 10:12:11 GMT
Easy solution to the expense issue - do more with the TFs in their disguise modes. The original concept in 1984 was that they spend most of their time on Earth disguised as cars, etc. and just change to their upright forms for battle. The Autobots should be like KITT in Knight Rider most of the time. It's not rocket science. One thing I never understood was why in the live-action movies the Autobots only seem able to speak when in robot mode. Martin Never understood that myself either. Especially in the first film they spend quite a lot of screen time in vehicle mode. Would be nice if this was an intended use of the robots in disguise concept, but it seems its primary reason was to save on expensive cg. Then not having them speak all that time just robs them all of personality. Of all the very reasonable complaints against the films I think thats my biggest. |
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 29, 2015 11:46:43 GMT
Honestly, I think the bayverse is too violent and too abstract. I don't see this working without a reboot and a solid plan. snip It's not that I think you are wrong, but the problem is Rebooting. People instinctively dont like rebooting. It doesn't mean it isn't for the best, but especially now, Supermans reboot, Spiderman on his second reboot in 3 years and Fantastic Four. there were concerns about Xmen First class and of course the hatred of Beast Wars long ago and more recently the hatred for the movies and Animated. If its good then it doesnt matter, but if its bad theres little loyalty and it will die. The bay movies have consistently made money despite most considering them garbage. Imagine what happens if they finally make a good one. If Transformers reboots then announces a cinematic universe non fans of the wider Transformers world know what to expect. Theres instinctive distrust of the reboot and suddenly they do look like DC and Sony throwing away previous efforts that people are invested in. Then wheres the incentive to invest in the new version if it might be ditched after one or two films with plot threads left dangling. Though it is hard for some to believe there are people out there that really are fans of the Bay movies. They've been on the go for as long as G1, so thats entire childhoods. On TV Prime followed a similar format for the last few years. To the wider public thats Transformers. The time to reboot was DOTM which sort of had a conclusion. AOE was already a soft reboot and left the story open ended, rebooting now is the wrong time. Yes the Bay films have been a slaughter house. But even that can be turned to an advantage allowing a fresh cast. In a reboot we'd no doubt be back to Prime, Bee, Jazz, Megatron, Soundwave, Starscream etc. If Goldsman is putting together a writers room that means new writers and fresh ideas anyway. That and new directors can mean whats on screen could be very different from 1-4 but still be part of it. I guess I'm just not a fan of rebooting. I'd rather see them save what has already been made. IDW managed to salvage AHM and Megatron Origins (Im not sure Ive even read all of it, but remember reading lots of complaints at the time), neither may be good stories but the plots have been used by better writers as the foundations for better stories. AOE was already an improvement on 2 and 3 and now I want to know where Prime goes, to get proper use of the Dinobots (theres no reasopn not to think they were just disorientated through most of their AOE appearance and can be used asmore than angry beasts next time) and more Goodman. |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 29, 2015 17:28:00 GMT
Sausages.
-Ralph
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Post by Llama God on Mar 29, 2015 20:26:45 GMT
I do see all that, but I can't help but feel that Transformers isn't a big enough name to warrant this. Likewise, some comics franchise featuring a talking racoon and a walking tree isn't going to do so well, either. And Marvel'll never make a decent go of a film franchise when the best they have left with the rights to is Iron Man and Thor... Except they did work, for the simple reason that they made good films. And that's all they need to do at the end of the day. And yes, Ralph, it's like sausages. Everyone knows what sausages are made from, but who cares if they taste good? All Akiva Goldsman has to put out is some really tasty sausages... |
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 29, 2015 21:05:17 GMT
Likewise, some comics franchise featuring a talking racoon and a walking tree isn't going to do so well, either. And Marvel'll never make a decent go of a film franchise when the best they have left with the rights to is Iron Man and Thor... Except they did work, for the simple reason that they made good films. And that's all they need to do at the end of the day. Yeah, but Guardians had the Marvel name behind it, which is huge now, and it was something new. Even a *good* Transformers film now would be coming off the back of four mediocre efforts. Would Guardians 5 do so well if the others had been poor? Marvel does at least have a bit of diversity, and struck gold by putting Robert Downey Junior in the suit. I agree, Marvel have built a film following by putting out consistently good movies since Iron Man. Transformers has a bum start in that regard because it seems people can tolerate big robot rubbish once every three years or so, but more than that? I dunno. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Apr 3, 2015 15:17:40 GMT
Easy solution to the expense issue - do more with the TFs in their disguise modes. The original concept in 1984 was that they spend most of their time on Earth disguised as cars, etc. and just change to their upright forms for battle. The Autobots should be like KITT in Knight Rider most of the time. It's not rocket science. One thing I never understood was why in the live-action movies the Autobots only seem able to speak when in robot mode. Martin I agree with you, having them chat in vehicle mode would indeed be a nice touch. I can only assume the team think that reminding folks of Knight Rider might not be a good move. I do think keeping them as alien and intimidating, even the good guys would have been the way to go. I think the Live Action universe, does have a rich potential to expand the Transformers mythos, but I don't think the people behind it have the ambition or the desire to do so when what they are doing at the moment is delivering in terms of box office potential. I still think trimming the first film/or as you said earlier getting better actors would have made for a fantastic film, as opposed to the merely decent film we got. As an aside, I am sure we have discussed it elsewhere when Film Four/C4 broadcast Revenge of the Fallen give it a watch. Their cut excises some of the most crass bits of the film making it much more tolerable. Andy |
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Post by Shockprowl on Apr 25, 2015 13:11:16 GMT
I normally don't swear much, but... as far as I'm concerned, Micheal Bay and the live action Transformers 'universe' can make like a plate of warm shit and fuck off. It's unintelligent garbage. Reboot! Ark crashing into a volcano, robots looking like they did in 1984, it'd be fine, it'd work just fine. Bay's Transformers films are too violent and mean spirited. It worries me that they've been so popular with the children of today. I'd rather No More Transformers Films than more Bay-verse.
Edit: sorry if this is off topic.
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Post by Llama God on Apr 26, 2015 22:28:30 GMT
No, no, I think that's pretty much the point...
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 3, 2017 13:04:07 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 3, 2017 18:02:16 GMT
Clickbait opinion pieces pretending to be news, even when tracked back to the Forbes article. Trash journalism.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 3, 2017 18:25:00 GMT
Now I think about it, we knew this anyway. The writers' room wasn't an ongoing thing, it was a brainstorming session to outline ideas for future films that concluded before TLK got underway.
The question is more whether Hasbro decide to ditch everything else that came from those sessions and start again, or go on as planned. Didn't they say they'd worked out about a dozen ideas for other possible films?
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