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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 10, 2015 18:25:14 GMT
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Post by Toph on Jul 10, 2015 19:18:27 GMT
That's somewhere between the terrible kind of silly, and excellent.
While I'm not opposed to the concept of a ton of heads that can be swapped around, turing into tiny versions of the larger robot leaves a really rank taste in my mouth.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 10, 2015 19:23:06 GMT
That's effectively what the Headmasters did in the Japanese cartoon. No problem with that.
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Post by Toph on Jul 10, 2015 19:36:58 GMT
Optimus Prime's head did not come off to transform into a tiny version of Optimus Prime's robot body.
Blaster's head did not come off to form a tiny Blaster robot.
Had those been headmasters, the heads would have been unique robot designs, just like the actual headmasters.
So, you are incorrect bthat is NOT what they did in the terrible japanese cartoon. Stylor did not look like a shrunk down Chromedome that turned into a head, instead of a car.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 10, 2015 19:47:16 GMT
Headmasters, the Japanese series, is fabulous!
No, I like this idea. It lets them do Headmasters without needing another being involved. The idea in the cartoon is that the robot is the head so this is a logical continuation.
Just because Optimus etc didn't have Headmasters before is no reason they can't now, just like how they weren't Comciners before means they can't be combiners now.
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Post by Toph on Jul 10, 2015 20:47:54 GMT
Dude, you totally missed everything I said, and everything I said I didn't like.
While headmasters aren't my thing (the only ones who've ever been important and ever mattered as headmasters were Fort Max and Galen/Spike, and Scorp and Zarak, but that's neither here nor there, and I hate the japanese series because they went in the blandest, most unimaginative way possible. Boring concept is boring), I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH HEADMASTERS IN GENERAL
I bold and SHOUT THIS to get it across.
I'm not fond of it, but I have no issues with Optimus and Blaster as Headmasters IN CONCEPT.
Please stop treating me like thats what I'm saying because nowhere did I say that, or emply it.
The unofficial quote implies that all these new heads and headmasters will be tiny versions pf their full sized selves.
Optimus's head will literally transform into a tiny optimus.
THAT is what i don't like, that sounds completely rediculous.
A tiny bumblebee looking robot that turns into a bumblebee head to plug into Optimus Prime. While Optimus Prime's head transforms into tiny optimus looking robot and pilots Chromedome, while tiny Chromedome looking robot goes off to be chromedome head, and so on.
That's what I took away from that post. ans THAT is what i don't like. I said nothing about fiction that has nothing to do with TOYS. You brought that up.
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Post by Toph on Jul 10, 2015 20:58:25 GMT
I apologize if that post reads as angry, because I'm not.
I'm just seem to be having difficulty in being understood in what I'm saying.
I no longer know how to make myself clear without it sounding like anger.
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Post by Pinwig on Jul 10, 2015 21:06:41 GMT
You're fine chum. Don't worry.
edit: Apart from calling Headmasters a terrible Japanese cartoon. That's unforgivable and I curse you henceforth for all eternity.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jul 10, 2015 21:10:57 GMT
No harm done!
Now, all you need to do is admit that Sunbow Season 4 - The Rebirth is a thing of great beauty!!
Ask Ralph who has experienced my recital of it, he loves it!
Andy
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jul 10, 2015 21:12:14 GMT
So how long till we get an Optimus Prime Pretender, or will he go through the Master iterations first?!
Not fussed about a Blaster, just because we've had a recent toy of him that is decent enough. If it was Twincast however...
Andy
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 10, 2015 21:23:03 GMT
I'm confused. I thought it was called Titan Wars, not, err HEAD WARS.
Do you think the small versions will command the limited number of Titans we have/will have? (none of which are Decepticons).
I don't like the idea of tiny headformers of characters. If you're gonna do Headmasters do Headmasters- the heads being different characters, binary bonding 'n'all that. A small Headformer Optimus sounds odd to me. Then again, I never did 'get' Headmasters, back in the day. I think they look... itchy.
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Post by Llama God on Jul 10, 2015 21:46:37 GMT
I got the Junkion Blacksmith Justice Leader toy - which is a tiny Optimus Prime that turns into a larger Powermaster Prime head. And also a small truck. It is ridiculous. And I love it.
I don't have a problem with the concept, if that is what it's to be - the Japanese idea where the larger bodies are just "transtectors", upgrades for the smaller robots, or add-ons, or whatever, just makes so much more sense from a storytelling perspective.
HOWEVER the whole "binary bonding" idea is an interesting one, if done well. Unfortunately there's only one example of that, and that's G1 Marvel Scorponok/Zarak. If they go that way, then that's fine, as long as it's done well in the comics. If not... well, then not.
Personally, though, I'm all for being able to pull a robot's head off and have it turn into another robot. Because that's very silly. And something I sometimes wish I could do with my own head. Bring it.
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Post by Toph on Jul 10, 2015 21:48:30 GMT
Fictionwise, I don't think Headmasters, Targetmasters, and Powermasters have been explored well enough.
I never cared much for the toys because I REALLY don't like the transformer being dependent on an accessory to be complete. (Targetmasters, you can toss the clunky awkward oversized gun aside, Powermasters you can plug the engine in and forget about it, but Headmasters as toys are just ruined)
But fictionally, I always thought these had great potential for exploration. Both cartoons dropped the ball royally. One by being Sunbow, the other by going the easy way out. (Given the choice, I'll choose Sunbow for at least TRYING to do it right. And a true Season 4 might have been genuinely interesting having time to explore the masters)
Unfortunately, given the nature of the comics relationship to Hasbro, they never had a chance to really explore these, either.
As such, only Fort Max, Scorponok, and Optimus stand out as even vaguely important representatives of the concepts.
And not a single Targetmaster (who actually makes the most sense in a fictional and practical standpoint) ever really got more than a brief appearance. (Even if the autobot or decepticon did, their partners and their relationships never did)
Those three are the only ones that got any exploration. Followed decades later by Sunstreaker and Hunter, of all left field oddities.
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Post by Llama God on Jul 10, 2015 22:13:01 GMT
Yeah, good point. But we won't get those, alas. Because they're not G1...
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 11, 2015 7:04:26 GMT
Now, all you need to do is admit that Sunbow Season 4 - The Rebirth is a thing of great beauty!! Beauty, in this case, spelt P-I-S-H |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 11, 2015 9:16:10 GMT
PHIL! You go too far!
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 11, 2015 9:21:12 GMT
The unofficial quote implies that all these new heads and headmasters will be tiny versions pf their full sized selves. Optimus's head will literally transform into a tiny optimus. THAT is what i don't like, that sounds completely rediculous. Whereas I don't think it does. It's almost like the central part of Powermaster Optimus Prime coming away and transforming into the Powermaster Optimus Prime. A tiny bumblebee looking robot that turns into a bumblebee head to plug into Optimus Prime. While Optimus Prime's head transforms into tiny optimus looking robot and pilots Chromedome, while tiny Chromedome looking robot goes off to be chromedome head, and so on. There is some toy precedence here as well: Japan got a number of extra Headmaster heads which could control the larger bodies: Kirk
Lione
Loafer
Rodney
Shuffler
Trizer Indeed they did the same thing for Powermasters too Aquastar
Bullet
Zetoca While the idea of swapping Headmasters (and Powermaster and Targetmasters) might be an alien one to some (I have a feeling we're entering Burns/5mm territory here) the concept is definitely there with the 87 Headmasters and the tech spec reader mechanism. (The idea of a different *Master having taken over a robot is in a long running TMUK storyline) As for Optimus' head turning into a small Optimus you can easily apply the fictional excuse of needing to downsize due to energy consumption, only using the larger body as it demands. And if you've downsized you're probably going to want your new form to look like your old one wouldn't you? And once you've downsized to this new form why wouldn't you want to take over a larger more powerful body if you could? While your mileage on the concept may vary I can see this working. I do suspect this idea will meet resistance from the same Transformers fans who don't like the Optimus Prime and Autobot Cars and for the same reason: this wasn't how it was done originally and we want all the ones that were done originally first. I have no problem with Prime being a Headmaster, in fact a Headmaster was part of the Powermaster Optimus concept. I always thought that Prime, in either the cartoon or comic fictions, would have been more likely to be a Headmaster while Megatron would have been a Targetmaster. Megatron: I'm not sharing my head with anyone, give me some extra firepower For better or worse in 1987 Hasbro hadn't quite got so fixed on resusing their existing character base so the original leaders sit out the Headmaster and Targetmaster concepts. Prime does get Powermastered and the stuff the Marvel comic does with the Powermaster concept at the end of the run is great. |
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Post by Pinwig on Jul 11, 2015 11:51:59 GMT
Megatron: I'm not sharing my head with anyone, give me some extra firepower That came up before didn't it, when we were talking about why Prime kinda works as a combiner core and Megatron doesn't. His bolt ons come as armour, like Tidal Wave breaking apart to protect him, while Prime combines with his teams to unify the strength working as a unit. If you think about it, the mini/maxi idea of Headmasters being a small version of the bigger robot is kinda like an extreme version of the robot putting on armour. I don't have a problem with the tiny robot in control of the Transtector idea, I think I prefer the Japanese Headmasters idea to the Nebulon idea... I think... but I'd prefer it if the mini robot wasn't a mirror image of the larger one shrunk down. Have Prime as the mini robot, but the big one should look significantly different. |
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Post by Toph on Jul 11, 2015 19:06:49 GMT
First: again. I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH OPTIMUS BEING A HEADMASTER. I DID NOT EVER SAY THAT I DID. [/i] Second: I have no issues with multipacks of swappable heads. I have never said I did. Everything you are bringing up is based purely on fiction, which I also have not brought up. What the UK, US, or Japanese fiction has said or done is absolutely not relevent. This is my problem. It reads that the heads will PHYSICALLY be tiny versions of themselves. That is the root of my problem. Exclusively. I don't care how the fiction will explain this. Or won't. I don't care what has been done in the passed, because in the toys, Chromedome's head literally did not turn into a literal tiny Chromedome. It turned into a different robot with a different design. I am not opposed to something new. I am opposed to something that could potentially be stupid. If tiny g1 optimus styled head that transforms into head for full sized Optimus toy floats your boat, that's fine. But it seems excessively silly, and lacking originality to me. But of course, some random "someone said that someone said" quote is hardly a reliable source. My original comment was I don't like what this implies. But this whole thing has gotten rediculously overblown now. I'm through with this particular subject. If you *still* don't get the jist of what I'm saying, we can deal with it in PMs. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 11, 2015 19:41:55 GMT
Posting this has reminded that I've got the KO set of these, the Fort/Grand Maximus and Scorponok/Black Zarah heads in the cupboard here and mighty fine it is too. It's a shame they didn't do another set of ten with the heads for the 4 Autobot Headmasters, 3 Decepticon Headmasters, both Horrorcons and Brave Maximus, which they alreayd had the mould for from the first set. |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 11, 2015 19:56:40 GMT
Jetty, might be an idea to step away from the keyboard for a bit. Stay calm. It's just toys.
Thanks.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Jul 11, 2015 20:07:34 GMT
As an aside, are we theorising here about the big bot/little bot idea or accepting it as fact, because on the line art display board it's very clear that the head robot form of Blaster is very much a tiny representation of the big one.
So we were guessing the other one we saw is Astrotrain. So is he going to be robot/shuttle/base too? Cool!
This line needs Overlord.
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Post by Pinwig on Jul 11, 2015 20:21:19 GMT
If we're getting a Leader size Prime out of this the Megatron finally makes sense. This is really integrating the four scales. Generations is becoming almost as exciting as it was living through this the first time. Awesome. AWESOME.
AWESOME
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jul 11, 2015 20:35:17 GMT
As an aside, are we theorising here about the big bot/little bot idea or accepting it as fact, because on the line art display board it's very clear that the head robot form of Blaster is very much a tiny representation of the big one. So we were guessing the other one we saw is Astrotrain. So is he going to be robot/shuttle/base too? Cool! This line needs Overlord. Think it's quite likely that it will be the case, but you never know, Hasbro could still throw us a curve ball, mind you that might just mean Blaster's head is a wee Blaster, Prime's could be Roller or something else. Guess we will find out in time. Andy |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 11, 2015 20:46:20 GMT
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Post by Toph on Jul 11, 2015 21:55:38 GMT
Jetty, might be an idea to step away from the keyboard for a bit. Stay calm. It's just toys. Thanks. -Ralph I'm not angry. I made a post specifically saying that. He keeps either intentionally or unintentionally misunderstanding what I say to the point where I have no idea how to stress my real meanings without it sounding like I'm shouting.See what I mean? |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jul 11, 2015 22:07:10 GMT
No he isn't Phil was merely discussing the point and talking about the concept of the Headmasters and their usage in general and for the benefit of everyone as this is a OPEN DISCUSSION forum not a personal thread between you and Phil.
You seem to think this is Phil misunderstanding you and your words can be interpreted as you becoming frustrated and/or angry hence why Ralph chimed in and from the message thread I certainly don't think Phil is misunderstanding you, he is simply adding to the discussion.
As an aside I learned about three random powermaster engines I never knew existed, always nice to learn new stuff about Transformers.
Now - back to talking about overpriced lumps of plastic that transform.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 11, 2015 22:07:34 GMT
Yes, I can see that you keep shouting when politely asked to do so. Please stop. Thankyou.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jul 11, 2015 22:15:56 GMT
This line needs Overlord. Given the characters we've seen end up in toys in recent years, I wouldn't put it past them to look at an Overlord at some point. He is an awkward one in terms of scale. Look at the Botcon effort, far too small, but do you go Titan size, or somewhere smaller than that. Andy |
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Post by Toph on Jul 11, 2015 22:20:55 GMT
Yes, I can see that you keep shouting when politely asked to do so. Please stop. Thankyou. -Ralph I am not shouting (or angry). I am using the literal tools of the board to highlight my words. Please stop putting words and meanings in my proverbial mouth that aren't there. I was not angry or upset. But I am now beginning to get severely frustrated by you. I'm done. I already said I'm done a few posts back when I felt I had finally made myself clear. I already said I wasn't angry and appologized for if my posts read that way. Stop turning this into something it isn't. |
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