Titan TPBs

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I keep wavering on what Titan reprints I want on my bookshelf (my US & UK comic collections being fairly inaccessible in storage). I _think_ I've got it pretty much fixed now.

In terms of US reprints, I've got the four original Furman books (Primal Scream/Matrix Quest/All Fall Down/End of the Road). They are a nice colourful package for when I don't feel like heavy reading. Then I've obviously got Beginnings and New Order, which together make the definitive 12-part story of The Transformers as far as I'm concerned. I'm also happy to give shelf space to Cybertron Redux, as I have a soft spot for Rock and Roll Out, and the Return to Cybertron 2-parter is excellent. And I also have Trial By Fire and Maximum Force, so as to have the complete Nebulos story, from Headmasters to Powermasters.

So out of 16 US volumes (including G2), I have volumes 1-3, 7-8 and 11-14, and I think that's how I'll keep it. Volumes 4-6 are just too annoying in the way the Special Teams shunt the other cast out of the picture, and there's also too much of Blaster, who is rather a misery-guts. I can certainly live without the Underbase toy clearout and Micromaster wrestling, and the G2 books would be bottom of my list.

On the UK front, I only have Dinobot Hunt and Second Generation at present (the pre-Movie cast stories). I may pick up Prey at some point - still mulling that over.

What reprint TPBs make up your optimum collection?

Martin

[The Doctor]

For UK stories, I prefer to stick with my original comics and scans as I'm not keen on the production quality on the Titan trades of UK material though I have kept my Target:2006 hardcover. I am picking up the IDW reprints that cover The Icarus Theory/Dinobot Hunt/In the National Interest. Add to that the collected comics of Man of Iron, Enemy Within, Second Generation and Crisis of Command and that's the cream of the crop, UK-wise.

As far as the US material goes in the Titan trades, my essential collection would be: Beginings, New Order, Cybertron Redux, Trial By Fire, Dark Star, All Fall Down, End of the Road, Dark Designs and Rage in Heaven. All the seminal US stories are in that lot, for me.

-Ralph

[legios]

I think I've actually got a few more trades than my "core collection" (defining the "core" stuff as the stories I would want in my collection no matter what). My core collection would probably be:-

US Trades: Beginnings, New Order, Cybertron Redux, Showdown, Dark Designs, Rage in Heaven

UK Trades: Dinobot Hunt, Target:2006

I do have a lot of the "middle bit" between those two bits of US run, but I don't find I re-read them very much and if I were pushed for room I doubt I'd be too worried about getting rid of them.

Karl

[Andy Turnbull]

I gave up on the UK Titan trades as the repro was so piss poor as to be unbelievable.

The US trades that make the core collection for me are:

Beginnings and New Order (those first twelve issues being a very tight and engaging introduction to the Trans Formers), Cybertron Redux, simply for the two part return to Cybertron story.

From the latter part of the run the four Furman trades (Primal Scream, Matrix Quest, All Fall Down and End of the Road) a great arc which brought some much needed direction to the US title when it seemed to be floundering around as a new toy of the month book.

Rounding off the collection are the two G2 collections Dark Designs and Rage in Heaven, narrowly edging out the first two trades as my favourite Transformers storyline. From Derek Yaniger's Bisleyesque take on the Transformers to the epic backdrop the story found itself set in, it's a rip-roaring tale from start to finish.

Andy

[The Doctor]

G2 does have my favourite moment in Transformers when Prime shouts "SEVEN-TEEN!" in the way we might say "SHIT!". You can just see his world-view falling away from under him as he learns there is more than one 'Cybertron' out there. The lettering and accompanying art just make it.

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I dunno, even if I found the art pleasing to the eye and wasn't bothered by the callous killing that the writer revels in, G2 would annoy the hell out of me simply for being so messy - stories that switch from one artist to another and back again every few pages, plus the complete shambles that is Tales of Earth, which started off as a self-contained Death-of-Bludgeon 2-parter but ended up being whichever pages were drawn by such-and-such an artist, let's give it a different name and hope the readers will be conned into thinking it was meant to be this way. Even A Rage in Hell switched artists three times.

No such problems with Jose Delbo!

Martin

[Andy Turnbull]

Scheduling concerns dictated the majority of the art switches, but it was never something that bothered me. Having read weekly comics I was always used to the switching around of artists.

I do agree that the Tales of Earth segments should have been properly distinct. I get the feeling that had the book continued they probably would have evolved into a more distinct back up feature in the way that Tales of Asgard was used in Marvel's Thor books at various intervals.

For myself I have no problems with the casual deaths, the constant resurrection of characters in comics annoys me and robs death of any meaning and impact and I think Simon was trying to get that back with some of the off-hand ways in which long-standing characters were offed. It did make more sense than introducing new characters to die in a few issues time.

Although he did undermine it with the new and improved Optimus Prime appearing at the end of Issue 12. I'd have much rather we seen Prime dead at the end of it. Which would have made for some interesting storylines had the book continued.

Andy

[Dave]

I think it's best to just ignore the titles of the G2 stories, because 'Ghosts' aside (which Titan skipped anyway) it all flows as one continuous tale. The changing artists didn't bother me, it's not like we hadn't had it before with a TF story and here the art has a prety similar look.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

admin said:

For myself I have no problems with the casual deaths, the constant resurrection of characters in comics annoys me and robs death of any meaning and impact and I think Simon was trying to get that back with some of the off-hand ways in which long-standing characters were offed.Andy

You say "get that back", but that's just the problem - it wasn't there in the first place. G2 is without a shadow of a doubt supposed to be a continuation of the original Marvel US series, the first 75 issues of which established with rock-hard solidity that Transformers do not expect death to normally result from being blown to bits.

It goes right back to #3 when the Autobots didn't even worry that Gears might be dead after falling off that cliff, and was used to highlight how they were a different form of life to humans. Likewise, neither the Autobots nor the Decepticons considered for a moment that Starscream and co. might be dead after Omega Supreme vanquished them. These, to me, established the rules of the universe.

Making them scream like humans and die like humans means they're just not proper Transformers any more in my book.

If death were as easy to come by throughout the Marvel run as it was in G2, it wouldn't be so jarring. But it seemed to be like what they joke about the animated Movie, in cartoon continuity, when they say Ironhide, Prowl & co. had all put cardboard armour on that morning so that they suddenly responded differently to laser fire than they had done throughout seasons one and two.

The contrast is just too marked for what is supposed to be a single continuity.

I have no problem with death coming more easily in the live-action film medium, as long as they are reasonably consistent from one movie to the next.

Martin

PS Incidentally, I don't believe Bob Budiansky ever pretended to readers that a character was dead, only to resurrect him later on. He killed Scrounge and Straxus, and in the US comics they stayed dead. He blew up Optimus Prime and showed the reader straight away that he was being saved to a disk. Furman seemed more keen on bringing back characters that we had been previously assured were dead - Straxus, Galvatron, Impactor, and so on. Which puzzles me slightly.

[The Doctor]

My reading of G2 was that when characters blew up, etc it was open to reader interpretation as to whether they were considered dead or merely terribly unwell. We had already seen characters come back from the dead in the previous Marvel series anyway, so events seemed par for the course for me. What did feel different was the sudden and off-hand way in which characters would appear to be dispensed with. Helped reinforce the feeling of 'this is a fierce war and anyone can go at any time'.

Considering the comic was cancelled, I felt it would have made better story sense if Prime had stayed dead. Would have given it more of an air of finality and the impression that his 'job was finally done', in a sense that the myth of Prime was over. Like Robin Hood, he had shot his last metaphorical arrow after his time had already effectively passed. It only makes sense to me to have him resurrected if the comic was continuing. And it was hardly the type of title that hyped the G2 toys anyway (the usual reason for characters coming back in new forms, ie Powermaster Prime).

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

Simon's revolving door approach to death came as a result of the fact that the UK originated stories he told had to make do with a limited cast and he was somewhat beholden to the main title. Bob working on the US title and of course the toy biogs knew he had a steady stream of replacements so he was well aware that he had some freedom.

I agree with the Gears scenario as there was no way he would have died having fallen down. But I do think the Omega Supreme situation was underplayed, those characters should all have been dead. Let's face it Omega Supreme was a bad idea full stop. Having him in tilted the balance too much in the Autobots favour. Bob did kill off Megatron, and I don't think he had any intention whatsoever of bringing him back, (after all the toy was no longer being produced and had been superceded by that point) that's one of your lead villains.

There were enough deaths to give us impact in the series, but the revolving door of resurrection in the latter stages of the US book were a bit much. Nucleon & The Last Autobot all within a few issues of each other meant that unless you were a nebulan you were going to be alright.

One point about Prime's resurrection that I thought was a bit odd, was surely the Laser Rod Prime was out at that point, why not skip to that version?

Andy

[Grand Moff Muffin]

thedoctor said:

My reading of G2 was that when characters blew up, etc it was open to reader interpretation as to whether they were considered dead or merely terribly unwell.

I love that!

"Name: Red Alert. Function: Security Director. Recent history: Had most of his body shot away by Jhiaxus's soldiers. Status: Terribly unwell."

"Name: Hound. Function: Scout. Recent history: Was drawn by Manny Galan. Status: Terribly unwell."



Martin

[Andy Turnbull]

As I recall out read through of the US books kind of disappeared when the ezboard forum went tits up the first time and as a few of us here have expressed a liking for the Furman Titan run, any objections if we kick start it again with Back From The Dead?

Andy

[The Doctor]

I'm sure we made it to the end, then jumped to the UK stories. All those posts are lost though.

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I thought we did the UK stories first, then started the US ones from #1, with Karl doing a heroic essay each time, until we fizzled out somewhere at the saggy bit in the middle of the series.

James O printed a lot of them (controversially at the time) in Junk Files.

Martin

[The Doctor]

I have a very strong memory of commenting on G2 straight after we did End of the Road. Someone please confirm this. It happened! I'm not going mad! Again.

-Ralph

[Deleted]

I've got all of the Titan TPB's except Time Wars which seems to be notoriously hard to obtain for anything around its cover price. This bugs me as I'm a completist and I want that sole remaining TPB to complete my collection.

[legios]

martinm said:

I thought we did the UK stories first, then started the US ones from #1, with Karl doing a heroic essay each time, until we fizzled out somewhere at the saggy bit in the middle of the series.

Martin

I do remember the UK run being done first, followed by the US run. I think we had just about got up to whatever story is just before "Car Wash of Doom" when things somewhat stalled. I had given some thought to restarting from that point in the new year, now that I have access to the scans CD again (I have a chunk between "Car Wash" and the start of the Furman run on the US comic that I don't actually have in trade or anything). But if folk want to skip straight to the Furman run then that would be fine with me.

I'm not sure if we did an issue-by-issue on G2. I recall a freewheeling discussion on G2 in general but I don't know if it was done systematically.

Karl

[The Doctor]

I must be going mad then.

-Ralph

[legios]

thedoctor said:

I must be going mad then.

-Ralph

Or I am misremembering. It wouldn't be the first time....

Karl

[Andy Turnbull]

No, Ralph is going mad. We fizzled out a bit midway through.

Andy

[Denyer]

martinm said:

What reprint TPBs make up your optimum collection?

G2, the B&W volumes, Beginnings (mostly for flavour) & All Fall Down / End of the Road.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Bugrit. Saw the prices of the US Titan TPBs on Amazon Marketplace, and couldn't resist ordering all those I don't already own. The prospect of having the complete story in one smart book format on my bookshelf from #1 to #80 (minus Big Broadcast and Man of Iron) was just too tempting to pass up. So much for keeping to the bare essentials.

Still won't be bothering with G2, the UK b/ws and the time-travel stories though.

Martin

[The Doctor]

It's for the best for me to stay off the Amazon marketplace too then, lest I fall prey to the same temptation!

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Well, they've arrived and I'm just in the process of putting them into protective plastic covers. So, completely going against my resolution at the start of the thread, I now have US Titan TF Volumes 1-14, plus Dinobot Hunt, Second Generation, Target: 2006 and Prey (i.e. the pre-#100 UK reprints). But I _definitely_, _definitely_ won't be getting any more, not unless they reprint the very early UK stuff.

I couldn't resist putting all the US trades side by side to form the combined cover picture, just once.

I see what you guys mean about the poor reproduction on the UK books, but that bothers me a lot less than the imperfections in the US TPBs, actually. Most of them seem to have creases near the top of some of their pages, close into the spine. And this is regardless of whether they are bought from a shop, Amazon or Amazon Marketplace. Just a weakness of the series, I think. The worst cases were on Volumes 5, 6, 9 and 14, which fortunately are not the ones most precious to me. Oh well!

Now to a hot bubble bath to read the Scraplets saga for the first time in many years.

Martin

[The Doctor]

I did pick up the 5 digests of the black-and-white UK stories a while ago for buttons on the amazon marketplace. The stories are very wisely re-ordered from original publication order up so that each book has enough quality in it for what are now very cheap prices! Though most of the gunk does go in the Earthforce digest, alas.

-Ralph

[Deleted]

The black-and-white digests are nicely arranged. You could easily follow an ongoing story from them unlike the original comics they came from where you were left thinking 'huh! Where is the rest of the story?'

[The Doctor]

True.

Also the running order is much better, balancing out the good stuff with the somewhat less good stuff. Back in the day, most of the really crap stuff (Earthforce comedy bollocks) came in one sustained run of terror! For me, the black and white era was wildly inconsistent. Some great stuff there and some of the most terrible stuff the UK comic churned out.

But the art remained top-notch. Some of it looks much better at the reduced size (esp the strips that weren't designed for the black-and-white format). Also, some of the strips read much better taken out of context than they did back in the day!

-Ralph

[The Doctor]

The Titan US trades are around £4-5 on amazon so I ordered Maximum Force. First copy turned up with water damage. Asked for a replacement. This too was water damaged, even more knackered than the other copy. I am not a happy bunny. Does anyone know of anywhere that stocks cheap, non-knackered copies? Cheers.

-Ralph

[KnightBeat]

Hmmm.. I'll have to look at the End of the Road PB that I just bought from Amazon a little closer. I've been debating if I should send it back on the basis of a huge cut mark on the back cover.