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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 19, 2015 15:56:01 GMT
Just watched MTMTE 1
Why does Jazz get his Cybertron form in TF: Universe and Wheeljack & Bumblebee don't? Come to think of it why don't the jets, Soundwave and Laserbeak. OK they're not as good but I still wonder what makes Jazz's so special, it's on screen for far less than BB & Wheeljack.
Hasbro: Generations Legends Cosmos repaint as MTMTE BB.
I can see Purple jet again later in the episode as they approach the oil rig: there's the three named jets in shot, or just gone out of shot, so he's meant to be an addition there. He's also on the end titles!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 19, 2015 15:59:43 GMT
Going back to the opening credits, my DVD has the s1 music over the s2 music.
I've just watched them online and definitely prefer the S1 music.
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Post by legios on Aug 20, 2015 22:06:45 GMT
Does anything definitively explain that or is it all conjecture? The idea that they are "proper" characters seems to be something that has developed relatively recently in fan-lore - and they certainly didn't have names until the Botcon set. I suspect that the original intention was that they were intended to be "no-name mooks", in much the same way as those that pop up later on in the mini-series (I will get to them later) but for some reason the fascination which originally attached to the latter in my first sojourn in online fandom in the A.T.T days, seems to have transfered to these folks in recent years. There is certainly nothing official in terms of "creator intent" - and in honesty I wouldn't expect anyone involved to remember after this length of time. I agree that they are not the same three as the so-called "Rainmakers" (one of the most utilitarian group names in Transformers animated show history. Up their with Rodimus calling all the Autobot Cassettes "Cassette Robot". Rodimus, can't be bothered to keep any of the names of his soldiers straight...), but that conflation is hardly the silliest thing Botcon has done... Karl |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 20, 2015 22:35:13 GMT
And then there's "Hauler" aka Grapple....
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 21, 2015 7:11:50 GMT
For as long as I live I will never understand why some of Transformers Fandom's group-mind favourite characters don't actually exist.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Aug 21, 2015 7:33:15 GMT
And then there's "Hauler" aka Grapple.... Hauler spends the rest of the Sunbow show sulking in a cupboard. Don't worry though, the Dinobots turn out to be early adopters so there is cable and a games console in there. His Pong Tournaments with Sludge are the stuff of legend aboard the spaceship Autobot Headquarters. Karl |
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 21, 2015 7:33:24 GMT
For as long as I live I will never understand why some of Transformers Fandom's group-mind favourite characters don't actually exist. -Ralph Niche exclusivity probably. Not so much being able to impress with names that confuse others, more looking for the behind the scenes insight to explain anomalies. Hauler is interesting because of the way he hints at a toy being missing from the original '84 assortment. It's an unknown and to some that's quite tantalising. He's like a lost Autobot that we could have had but never did, so he's automatically desirable. Although if the early cartoon episodes feature Reflector and Shockwave there's no reason why the reality is that Sunbow already had the animation models sorted for the '85 line and included Grapple because the animator needed a figure with a tow line. Bit too much of a coincidence that he's the right colour if you ask me, but the lore that he's a Constructicon traitor is a lovely bit of back story that you can see would appeal. It's all about the what could have been. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 21, 2015 8:00:26 GMT
It's interesting because even as far back as Diaclone Grapple has been orange/yellow just as he appears onscreen www.diaclone.net/orid/dia055/index.htmlAt the point they say Hauler I'd stick my fingers in my ears and go nah nah nah nah it's Grapple. Cos it is. They got the name wrong. End of. |
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 21, 2015 21:16:59 GMT
Time to spin up the counters which shall update each week!
EPISODE 001
NUMBER OF DEACTIVATIONS SEEN ON SCREEN SO FAR: 021.
NUMBER OF TIMES DECEPTICONS RETREAT SO FAR: 000.
NUMBER OF TIMES CHARACTER STATES DESIRE TO CONQUER THE EARTH/CYBERTRON/UNIVERSE: 001.
NUMBER OF TIMES IRONHIDE EXCLAIMS: "PRIME!" SO FAR: 000.
NUMBER OF MANIACAL LAUGHS ON SCREEN SO FAR: 003.
NUMBER OF OPTIMUS PRIME 'MOMENTS OF CHARM' SO FAR: 000.
NUMBER OF MYSTERIOUSLY COLOURED DECEPTICON STRIKE PLANES SEEN ON SCREEN SO FAR: 003.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 21, 2015 22:01:51 GMT
HAA!!! Brilliant!
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 21, 2015 22:49:04 GMT
Very cool indeed. I'm thinking I might need to rate these episodes out of ten too. Just because I like lists.
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Post by legios on Aug 22, 2015 20:30:46 GMT
Having brought myself up to date with this episode earlier this evening, I find that other folk have said much of what I would otherwise have said. I'd agree that this moves along at an absolutely superb clip, but then it has to - at this stage all they are certain they are making is a three episode mini-series which has to be self-contained with a beginning, middle and end. As beginnings go this is decent enough. By the end of the episode we have been cursorily introduced to most of the major players in the story, we know how everybody got here and we have been left with a decent cliffhanger placing our heroes in jeopardy. Not bad at all.
Random things that strike me:-
Starscream's instincts for self-preservation are very strong. He is not only the first Decepticon to conclude that the Autobots are still alive, but also the first to spot them approaching the oil-rig. It is very likely that it was those own survival instincts that caused him to start lobbing weapons fire down into the grounded Autobot Spaceship. After all, if Megatron hadn't called him off then we would probably have finished off the Autobots and Decepticons would have a clear run at the Earth.
Speaking of Starscream, the description of his Null-ray weapon in his toy bio makes it sound like some sort of directed EMP weapon, disrupting the flow of electricity in machines. It's on-screen description seems to take this as an actual freeze ray, in that it appears to cause slightly off-pink ice to form on the drill-head...
Shockwave has two hands in his only seen in this episode, not his toy's one hand and a laser focal array. It probably is just an animation error - but there is plenty of time in four million years for him to lose the left hand in the pursuit of...being a space janitor.
Karl
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 22, 2015 21:21:24 GMT
Starscream's instincts for self-preservation are very strong. He is not only the first Decepticon to conclude that the Autobots are still alive, but also the first to spot them approaching the oil-rig. It is very likely that it was those own survival instincts that caused him to start lobbing weapons fire down into the grounded Autobot Spaceship. After all, if Megatron hadn't called him off then we would probably have finished off the Autobots and Decepticons would have a clear run at the Earth. The same shots however cause the Autobots reactivation so .... |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 23, 2015 7:56:42 GMT
People think Hauler is a Constructicon traitor?? Eh??? Where can they possibly get that madness from?
And Shockwave clearly replaces his hand with a space broom that looks like a gun. Hence why in Desertion of the Dinobots it tidies Carly's car away so neatly by vapourising it. You don't think Megatron would actually just someone so incompetent with an actual gun do you??
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 23, 2015 9:11:28 GMT
It seems to come from the bio on the ehobby exclusive green repaint of Grapple, called Roadhauler, which in turn appears to be based on the fact there are eight constructicons shown in Five Faces of Darkness when they're creating Megatron. So it's another animation error being explained away creatively. tfwiki.net/wiki/HaulerI kinda like the imagination that goes into this sort of thing. From the link: In 1984, it appears that Hasbro intended to release the Diaclone "Crane" figure as part of the first year of the Transformers toyline as a character named "Hauler". Packing cases for the 1984 Autobot Cars contained twelve figures, but only eleven toys were released (with an extra Mirage filling the empty slot), suggesting that Hauler was to be the twelfth. For unknown reasons, these plans were halted, and the figure was held back and eventually released in 1985 as Grapple. However, this change came too late to remove Hauler's solitary cartoon appearance, in "More than Meets the Eye, Part 1".
Nearly twenty years later, when Grapple's mold-partner, Inferno, was reissued as part of The Transformers Collection series, e-HOBBY decided to release an exclusive redeco of the Grapple figure. Someone at e-HOBBY, looking for a character that this toy could represent, found out about Hauler in Hirofumi Ichikawa's glossary info in the Transformers 2010 DVD box set and decided to turn the Grapple redeco into this Hauler character, now dubbed "RoadHauler". Ichikawa himself was then asked to write a bio for "RoadHauler", in which he explained the character's perpetual absence. Since Hauler as he appeared in the cartoon would not have actually been a redeco of Grapple (as they were both orange), it was decided to render RoadHauler in the classic purple-and-green of the Constructicons. The character's bio then established that he was a former member of that team (presumably in reference to the scene in "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4" that erroneously depicted the Constructicons with two extra members), and justified his different coloration in the cartoon by explaining that he often changed his color scheme. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2015 9:12:31 GMT
They got the name wrong! It's Grapple! Easy explanation not rquiring any fan w**k and the use of a repaint that's the wrong colour!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2015 9:14:38 GMT
More Than Meets The Eye - Part 2
Typing as I watch
The lack of the proper titles is annoying me, is there a UK version with the right versions?
Yay! Trailbreaker's forceshield!
Backstory, technobabble and setup. Let's show off everyone's special abilities
How did Teletran 1 get all this information about Earth's resources that Soundwave's just stolen?
Soundwave: Eject is one of Blaster's tapes, you can't have him!
Where's Jazz's doors in robot mode? Prowl has them!
Like the use of Ironhide's cannon out the back of his vehicle mode.
Starscream is using a catapult! Gasp! Is he Wheelie in disguise?
Ah the battle on the dam with the energy weapons. It's "Transformers do Lightsabres, but different" isn't it? The classic Op/Megatron fight until the movie and loved so muchthat reissues of the figures will get the weapons from it.
What's Hound doing with a clear mask over his face underwater? He doesn't need to breathe!
Purple and Blue strike plane bots are back! Several of them in fact!
"Spacecruiser nearly complete"? Maybeit would be if you hadn't wasted time building a HUGE base!
Trailbreaker the spy on a camping trip!
Five jet sagain in the assemble the strike force scene. Purple and Blue are definitely a thing.
Yay! It's the Lambo brothers :-) Boo, that was brief :-(
Sideswiper's missile launcher disapears at the same pt Prowl gets a yellow head.
Yay! R2-Roller!
Dramatic Prime falling off a cliff episode ending!
=-
It's the dam fight people remember and it's notbad actually seeing the two leaders face each other.
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 23, 2015 9:25:05 GMT
They got the name wrong! It's Grapple! Easy explanation not rquiring any fan w**k and the use of a repaint that's the wrong colour! Indeed. Logic dictates this. But it does leave me wondering where the name Hauler came from. Did they just make that up? Hasbrow must have provided it, there are no other characters in those first three episodes that are named that don't actually exist. If they just needed a bot with a winch, Jazz is flinging one about all over the place in the next episode. So it's Grapple, yes, clearly, but where did the name Hauler come from? Mystery! |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2015 9:31:36 GMT
Uncle Bob's naming document which gave us such well known characters as Spin Out? Then the name gets changed when the toy gets a go for year 2?
I can believe Grapple (or Inferno) was meant to be a year one toy. The B set of 84 toys, that we got early 85, numbers 5 (Prowl, Ironhide, Wheeljack, Trailbreaker and Sunstreaker) yet there's 7 85 cars (Grapple, Smokescreen, Skids, Tracks, Hoist, Inferno and Red Alert). My brain says there should be 3 sets of 6, not a 6, a 5 and a 7!
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 23, 2015 9:42:03 GMT
They got the name wrong! It's Grapple! Easy explanation not rquiring any fan w**k and the use of a repaint that's the wrong colour! I will never understand Fandom's obsession with stories that never happened. -Ralph |
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 23, 2015 9:44:55 GMT
I will never understand Fandom's obsession with stories that never happened. -Ralph Yes you do. You write fan fiction. This is no different! |
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 23, 2015 9:48:05 GMT
Fan fiction is creating additional stories. Inventing characters and situations within actual episodes and declaring they were there the whole time rather than getting into the actual characters and story that does exist on screen is utter lunacy.
It's like watching King Lear and declaring second spear carrier on the right who walked across stage for 3 seconds at the back of a crowd is the best character in it.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 23, 2015 9:49:57 GMT
Uncle Bob's naming document which gave us such well known characters as Spin Out? Then the name gets changed when the toy gets a go for year 2? I can believe Grapple (or Inferno) was meant to be a year one toy. The B set of 84 toys, that we got early 85, numbers 5 (Prowl, Ironhide, Wheeljack, Trailbreaker and Sunstreaker) yet there's 7 85 cars (Grapple, Smokescreen, Skids, Tracks, Hoist, Inferno and Red Alert). My brain says there should be 3 sets of 6, not a 6, a 5 and a 7! Is this naming document online anywhere? that sounds interesting. Spin Out? who did that become? Your numbers are compelling Mr Ayres. My gut feeling would also say that Inferno and Grapple are the only instance of the same mould being used twice in the same wave, which is carefully avoided with all of the others. |
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 23, 2015 9:53:30 GMT
Fan fiction is creating additional stories. Inventing characters and situations within actual episodes and declaring they were there the whole time rather than getting into the actual characters and story that does exist on screen is utter lunacy. It's like watching King Lear and declaring second spear carrier on the right who walked across stage for 3 seconds at the back of a crowd is the best character in it. -Ralph Okay, the difference is creating the story and claiming it to have been intended originally, and creating the story to explain an anomaly inventively as a 'what if?'. I see; I get that. |
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 23, 2015 9:55:09 GMT
Right, it's Sunday and it's tipping it down, so it's time for another ramble:
02 - More Than Meets The Eye - Part 2
Picking up straight from where the first episode leaves off, part two starts with the Autobots in a reactive rather than proactive role, which seems to be their default position for the start of the series. Firstly they have to patch up the oil rig, then Sherman Dam after Megatron makes an unnecessary mess of it, and finally they have to try and stop the Decepticons mining the ruby crystals. They're always one step behind and having to protect the locals, which is something Mirage questions so that Optimus can give the obvious answer that the Autobots have to prioritise protection.
Spike and Sparkplug also get properly introduced and quickly become the viewer's aid in understanding the situation. Questions such as 'Why do you transform?' are interesting though, especially Trailbreaker's reply that they do it for disguise. Why do they need that function on their own world? Did it evolve as part of the war? The element of disguise in the earliest fictions seems to be more about hiding themselves on Earth, which feels like it goes right back to the original product pitches before Cybertron was even invented. Obviously Trailbreaker's second reply that it adds to their functionality makes more sense.
The balance of power in the struggle between good and evil is largely in favour of the Decepticons, who seem to have constructed a vast fortress extremely quickly. Their authority is also underlined in other small ways, such as Mirage also saying that the Autobots aren't warriors. It starts to make them sound like a tired parent trying to clear up after an unruly three year old. In addition, when Prime and Megatron fight atop the dam Prime gives the impression that he is much younger than Megatron, disguising what suddenly feels like inexperience in his leadership with jibes about the Decepticon leader being “yesterday's model”. The two leaders clash several times in these opening episodes, something which future series will spend a long time building up to. Perhaps because this is the first time these characters have been seen it was considered important to reinforce the relationships between them.
Speaking of which, the duplicitous nature of the Decepticons is shown again in this episode with Starscream wasting the energon and then claiming he can wait for his shot at leadership. More subtly, Soundwave deserts Ravage after the pair are discovered in the Ark. Conversely, the episode cliffhanger comes about purely because Optimus tries to ensure that Bumblebee is safe.
Both factions display an array of abilities in this which don't seem to feature in other fictions. For a start the Autobots can fly, which always seemed to be something that differentiated the two sides in the comics – 'cons fly and 'bots don't. There is also the ability to magically swap hands for tools and other weapons such as Prime's axe and Jazz's winch, which uses the idea of transforming robots well, but rather like the Doctor's sonic screwdriver it seems to be something useful for quick fixes when needed. Jazz's bio doesn't mention anything about winches, but that then raises the question of how much the full length bios are a product of the comic's relationship with Hasbro and nothing really to do with the cartoon. The basics are there, but there are nuances between the two that differ greatly. Similarly, Soundwave seems to be the Decepticon's mobile factory for producing energon cube containers purely because he has a rectangular shape on his chest from which he can eject things.
While it's perhaps forgivable in the first episode that there are additional tetrajets shown on screen who could easily have remained on Cybertron with Shockwave, in this episode their use gets pushed to the limit by the animators needing reusable figures to make quick Decepticon crowd scenes; at one point a panning shot shows at least nine of them in various shades of blues and purples. However, with so few unique Decepticons the fact there are three identical planes to start with clearly made it tempting to shove in a few more to bolster the ranks. The Autobots don't escape the colouring errors either, and at one point while stood outside the mine Bluestreak appears to have a rather fetching yellow helmet.
In all, part two takes what part one establishes and builds on it. It’s a rapid narrative that has the dam sequence as well as the mine, which in future would be considered enough story for two separate episodes. This time we have a proper cliffhanger - the one everyone remembers - but even more so than the first episode this one only really works in the context of the other two. It’s the piece that links the opening episode and the finale and therefore narratively is the weakest, but the attack on the dam is a fine sequence in itself which re-establishes the relationships and dynamics set up in the first part, and it did give us Peter Cullen doing his best John Wayne with the forever memorable, “Stick it in neutral Megatron!”
8/10
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2015 11:01:42 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 23, 2015 13:00:27 GMT
I'm seeing Purple jet and Blue jet pop up frequently. How come they didn't get toys and I'm in one scene for a few frames Sunstorm became the star? I suppose we could pretend they became Blitzwing and Astrotrain? |
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 23, 2015 20:30:59 GMT
I do remember seeing folk post online in the mid-90's-early 2000's (pre-Dreamwave) about how Sunstorm was their favourite character in Sunbow. When I eventually got to see every episode I wondered where he was!!!
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 23, 2015 20:41:26 GMT
I suppose we could pretend they became Blitzwing and Astrotrain? No. |
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 23, 2015 21:37:02 GMT
Woah... I am so reading that. Amazing! Ah, of course. Hence the name of the 3P one. |
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