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Post by The Doctor on Aug 23, 2015 21:56:06 GMT
Time to update the series counter!
EPISODE 002
NUMBER OF DEACTIVATIONS SEEN ON SCREEN SO FAR: 022.
NUMBER OF TIMES DECEPTICONS RETREAT SO FAR: 001.
NUMBER OF TIMES CHARACTER STATES DESIRE TO CONQUER THE EARTH/CYBERTRON/UNIVERSE: 002.
NUMBER OF TIMES IRONHIDE EXCLAIMS: "PRIME!" SO FAR: 000.
NUMBER OF MANIACAL LAUGHS ON SCREEN SO FAR: 007.
NUMBER OF OPTIMUS PRIME 'MOMENTS OF CHARM' SO FAR: 001.
NUMBER OF MYSTERIOUSLY COLOURED DECEPTICON STRIKE PLANES SEEN ON SCREEN SO FAR: 014.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 24, 2015 8:26:11 GMT
More Than Meets the Eye part 2
(we were naughty and watched part 3 as well, but I'll save that for next week)
This, above all other episodes I think, is what captivated me as a child (if I wasn't hooked already). It's just full of true iconic Transformers moments! The oil-rig fight, the dam fight, the interplay between the main characters, and the brilliant cliffhanger ending. I like the way the Autobots are on the backfoot, there's a real sense that this might, perhaps, not go their way. True drama! From a Prowl fan's point of view though, it's poor, he's hardly in it other than to ask Optimus Prime a question he should already have known the answer to. I do like the fact that he and Jazz seem to team up when attacking Decepticons. There's great characterisation in this episode, and I suppose you can't show off everyone. Still, lots of other characters get a lot to do in this episode. It's non-stop Transformers magic! It's the reason I love Sunbow.
On the Autobots flying. I don't like it that the Autobots can fly. Thankfully it doesn't happen beyond More Than Meets the Eye (I don't think) unless an Autobot is supposed to be able to fly. I put it down to they've just woken up, and have extra energy, but later in the series they don't have the energy to fly, were as the Decepticons have better flying technology and can still fly when short on energy. Or something like that! The Autobots flying thing isn't a deal breaker, but the story really didn't need it, and it confused the hell out of young Transformers fans back in the day.
edit: oh and I also pondered over the Extra Jets back in the day, they actually have high nostalgia value for me! I just assumed they were low ranking warriors.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 24, 2015 10:42:01 GMT
Any robot flying (either faction) is nonsense if they don't have a proper flying mode! Otherwise why would any of them need to turn into planes!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 24, 2015 10:53:21 GMT
Speed and agility?
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 24, 2015 10:57:45 GMT
Unless they use a jetpack!
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 24, 2015 15:15:28 GMT
Any robot flying (either faction) is nonsense if they don't have a proper flying mode! Otherwise why would any of them need to turn into planes! -Ralph Disguise fool. And more speed, agility, efficiency. I wasn't too bothered by flying Autobots here. It also explains how they were able to get everywhere later very quickly. By driving (of course they didn't drive all the way!). |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 24, 2015 15:17:28 GMT
More Than Meets the Eye part 2The Autobots flying thing isn't a deal breaker, but the story really didn't need it, and it confused the hell out of young Transformers fans back in the day. I suspect the story would have been somewhat less exciting if it had featured the Decepticons stealing the rigs oil at leisure while the Autobots lining the coast off screen going "Damn. They outsmarted us again." |
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 24, 2015 15:23:40 GMT
No no no! Hydrofoils! Or or or a SHUTTLE CRAFT!
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 24, 2015 16:37:11 GMT
No. Just no.
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 25, 2015 16:27:51 GMT
What about....
a M.A.R.B!!!!!!!
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 25, 2015 18:23:56 GMT
Acceptable. *glides into action with Shockprowl*
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 25, 2015 18:38:21 GMT
HEY-HO, FORTRESS MAXIMUS 2002, WE RIDE!!!
EDIT: Er, no, actually that implies that you're the M.A.R.B. and I'm riding you, which isn't what I was going for there, honest.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 25, 2015 21:40:57 GMT
Don't go there. *pulls flamethrower from hip pocket*
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 26, 2015 12:38:27 GMT
More Than Meets The Eye Part Two
Opens with a rescue/show off some of the other Autobots who didn't do a lot in the first episode (Wheeljack not withstanding). Nice to see Trailbreaker deploy the forcefield to snuff out the fire. Optimus makes his human alliance, and thanks to Spike's diary we get a nice recap which doesn't come across as too much of an infodump. Although he fails to recognise the Decepticon sigil on Soundwave. I liked Ratchet's separate wee medical facility, shame it seems to vanish after this episode. Some nice gimmicks and I am sure that Mirage's invisibility may prove invaluable down the line.
The Autobots come across as quite friendly, you get the feeling that Hound, Trailbreaker and Mirage are a wee group within the Autobot ranks. I love Soundwave's voice, but he is absolutely bereft of a personality, save for the concern for Ravage. Not something we will see again from him. Good to see a lot of hands becoming grappling lines, or devices to fire to shoot nets.
Can we add a category of number of times a characters hand changes into something.
I love how Soundwave has to use his hands to explain what a tidal wave is to Rumble.
Nice to see some dissent in the ranks of the Autobots after a defeat as well, not outright rebellion but it's an interesting touch. Love the continued theft of audio from Star Wars throughout.
A nice middle act, it's bizarre to see the likes of Hound and Wheeljack as prominent as they are throughout these first two episodes with the knowledge of them becoming background characters more and more as the series progresses.
Andy
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,057
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Post by primenova on Aug 28, 2015 18:09:53 GMT
I'm half way in series 2 (Seaspray ep). But going by Ralph's post at the top of this page.
What is Megatrons' motto in the cartoon
"Everything is fodder"
or
"Decepticons retreat" How many times is this said during the whole series, I've lost count
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 28, 2015 18:37:12 GMT
"Peace through Tyranny", just like the toy!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 30, 2015 9:49:54 GMT
Episode 3 today chaps!
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 30, 2015 10:33:43 GMT
*thump*
03 - More Than Meets The Eye - Part 3
It’s hard to see the Autobots as anything other than wildly optimistic and more than a little gullible in this final episode of the original trilogy. Considering it took a lengthy battle and the Ark crashing from space to knock them out last time, it seems a little unlikely that a rock fall would bury the Decepticons permanently, and given Prime’s directive to protect humanity it seems odd here that the Autobots are willing to start partying without at least some kind of check that their opponents have been deactivated.
Prime’s tumble down the hillside also seems to leave him in worse shape than when falling out of the sky later in the episode, but this kind of inconsistency is easy to overlook in what is a corking twenty minutes of all out action.
Interspersed into the narrative is the continued careful introduction of the characters, which has been ongoing since the start of the first episode. Ratchet’s medical abilities come to the fore patching up Prime, then continuing the two by two theme, Bluestreak and Ironhide get their moment to shine as they chase the Decepticons leaving the mines. Skywarp’s request to teleport doesn’t just show his subservience to Megatron, but also reminds us of his unique ability - just as Hound also uses his hologram technology, Mirage uses his electro-disruptor, and Prime uses Sideswipe’s rocket pack. Despite telling a good yarn, the opening episodes do a very good job of informing us of who is who and why they’re all different. The only characters who suffer in this are the mini-bots (other than Bumblebee and Cliffjumper), Trailbreaker and oddly Prowl, who seem to get less screen time and clear differentiation than the others. But for the most part it’s easy for the viewer to discern the different personalities and abilities, and therefore decide which toys are going on the top of Christmas lists.
Other themes are returned to and redressed to ensure they’ve sunk in - interestingly Starscream’s desire to usurp Megatron is wheeled out twice, having already featured in the first two episodes, leading to the question of why Megatron doesn’t just dispose of him. He does at least come close here and the exchange does hint at Megatron being conceited enough to think that Starscream is devoid of allies and not powerful enough to be a threat, but is useful enough to keep on as a warrior. Or perhaps a living reminder to others that mutiny isn’t an option.
When Prime takes Hound’s hologram idea and turns into the rocket fuel base trap, the Autobots go overtly on the offensive for the first time - even the bomb in the mine in the previous episode was a reactive measure to stop something the Decepticons had already started. It’s deliberately unclear what the intent is here - whether to trick the Decepticons into capture or aggressively defeat them. The Autobots are very carefully shown as protectors and defenders in these opening episodes with an anti-war stance, but the outcome of the rocket base scenario is frustratingly taken out of their hands when it becomes apparent that Megatron his outwitted them. What would the Autobots have done with the Decepticons if they’d caught them? Put them all in cages like Ravage?
How Megatron constructs so many realistic looking facsimiles so quickly is one thing, as is the question of their whole base being thrown up so fast, but the biggest question here is where the real rocket base suddenly appeared from when the implication is that Prime’s original idea was purely made up.
Whether or not Ravage can speak is touched on in this episode too - but it’s notable that he only has a voice when in tape mode relaying information. I quite like the idea of the beast cassettes not being able to speak; it lends to the idea of them being subservient to Soundwave. With a faction as aggressive as the Decepticons it’s almost fitting that some are bestial enough not to speak - used for their instinct, aggression and spying capabilities. The voice could just be Soundwave interpreting the data verbally with a vocal slant indicating which cassette procured it. That then leaves some ambiguity as to whether Ravage, Laserbeak and Buzzsaw are less intelligent than the other ‘Cons, or whether they don’t use their own voices by choice. Ravage clearly has a degree of intelligence because of the way he escapes the cage.
The foiled plan and the resulting unseen attack on the real rocket base leads us into the final act as Megatron attempts to return home to an unguarded Cybertron, presumably then to return in force given his knowledge of Earth’s resources, wipe out the Autobots and absorb the planet into his empire. In this ‘final’ battle there is much use of the transformation gimmick to reinforce the point the toy range is unlike any other and to show off the Autobots’ car modes, but it does seem odd that Spike and Sparkplug are quite rashly allowed to join in just to show that they’re now part of the Autobot team. The unnamed purple Decepticon plane is present again, which begins to make his consistent presence seem more like a deliberately placed extra, bolstering the ranks visually, than a simple colouring error intended to be Skywarp.
Prime’s nobility and self-sacrifice is shown again, as it was at the end of episode two, but he is shot from the sky before he can reach the ship. The Autobots have been flying at will so far, which begs the question why Sideswipe has a rocket pack, and why Prime needs to use it, but that does at least indicate that their aerial ability is short ranged compared to the Decepticons. Ultimately though it’s the unlikely figure of Mirage who saves the day, significantly by using his electro-disruptor (set up during the earlier conversation with Hound) to again highlight his unique ability.
As a three part toy advert, More than Meets the Eye does an exceptionally good job of introducing all the characters and their differing abilities and personalities, right down to Roller and Prime’s trailer base. This is fed to the viewer slowly and carefully in ways that make each character memorable, but not so doggedly that it replaces the narrative - instead informing a twisting tale with many exciting set pieces. It’s brisk without being abrupt, and in terms of pace is surprisingly much faster than modern equivalents such as the opening episodes of Transformers Prime or Animated. It does its job brilliantly, and with Megatron’s survival sets up the exciting prospect of more adventures to come.
10/10
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 30, 2015 16:47:20 GMT
Prime transforming at the start is like he's struggling to pass something nasty!
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 30, 2015 18:36:35 GMT
Episode 3
It's interesting to see how Jazz is quite clearly Prime's 2nd in Command here in these early episodes. Has there ever been any reason as to why that would be forgotten about as the series progress? It's great how quick Optimus is to write off the Decepticons, and the implication is that he would leave them buried there when the Autobots return to Cybertron. An unusual level of self interest, not a million miles from say Mirage in these early episodes.
Great to see Skywarp actually use his ability to teleport and be effective in taking out his pursuers. I also love Ratchet becoming GIANT AMBULANCE, the shifting scale in Sunbow never fails to amuse me.
Ravage is trapped in a cage?! Makes no sense.
We get the pay off to Megatron/Starscream's dynamic and it is ultimately unsatisfying. So far we have seen Megatron be utterly ruthless, and here he spares Starscream and no reason is given. (The Ladybird books address this in a much more satisfying and surprisingly mature fashion).
It's great to see that Megatron quite clearly saw through this rather foolish and amateurish ruse. The sight of the minibots in whitecoats is wonderfully daft. I love that even at the end, Prime doesn't force any of his troops into what is quite clearly a last ditch, we are all going to die battle. An impassioned plea about the stakes and everyone steps up to the plate. Interesting that we are clearly meant to be under the impression that Prime is quite clearly Megatron's superior and that only through trickery can he win. Proper 80's wrestling feel there with Megatron being a classic heel.
It's also nice to see it's not Optimus who ultimately saves the day, but Mirage who has had a nice little character arc run through the three episodes. Tellingly had Starscream not been spared he would not have been in a position to make his power play and allow Mirage his shot at thwarting Megatron.
All in all a very tight take on The Trans Formers and had it been all we had of TF in an animated form would have been as close to perfect as you could get at the time. It's encapsulates the key concepts and where some characters may not be as fleshed out as others, there are enough hints at more rounded personalities with the odd telling line here and the choice of voice from the voice actors.
I must have watched the Arrival From Cybertron video more times than I care to remember when I was bought it as a kid.
Andy
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 30, 2015 20:49:03 GMT
Interesting you say that Prime comes across as Megatron's superior. I get the total opposite. Through all three episodes he seems to be the under dog to me. The Autobots are always one step behind and when they do try to take the offensive with the rocket base trap Megatron second guesses Prime.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 30, 2015 20:52:31 GMT
Interesting you say that Prime comes across as Megatron's superior. I get the total opposite. Through all three episodes he seems to be the under dog to me. The Autobots are always one step behind and when they do try to take the offensive with the rocket base trap Megatron second guesses Prime. I was more thinking in terms of physical ability. |
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 30, 2015 21:26:45 GMT
Ah I see, yes. That comes across too in the second episode on the dam when Prime's calling him old. Prime does come across as fitter and more agile to me, but less tactically aware. I get your wrestling reference now. Yes, it's about Prime's naïve faith in honour overcoming Megatron's experience and raw power.
I think that dynamic was amplified for the way the two characters work in Animated.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 1, 2015 22:34:23 GMT
Yes, the Animated dynamic between the two was definitely based on that idea, but obviously given a bit more room to breathe. After all, past these three episodes that aspect of the Prime/Megatron rivalry falls by the wayside.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 4, 2015 20:06:40 GMT
EPISODES VIEWED TO DATE: 003 OF 098.
NUMBER OF DEACTIVATIONS SEEN ON SCREEN SO FAR: 023.
NUMBER OF TIMES DECEPTICONS RETREAT SO FAR: 001.
NUMBER OF TIMES CHARACTER STATES DESIRE TO CONQUER THE EARTH/CYBERTRON/UNIVERSE: 005.
NUMBER OF TIMES IRONHIDE EXCLAIMS: "PRIME!" SO FAR: 000.
NUMBER OF MANIACAL LAUGHS ON SCREEN SO FAR: 010.
NUMBER OF OPTIMUS PRIME'S 'MOMENTS OF CHARM' SO FAR: 003.
NUMBER OF MYSTERIOUSLY COLOURED DECEPTICON STRIKE PLANES SEEN ON SCREEN SO FAR: 022.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 5, 2015 18:56:13 GMT
More that meets the eye part 3
Great GREAT GREAT ending to the first story! Satisfying on all levels! Autobots up against the wall, Megatron out-smarting Optimus, great action sequences, and a surprise hero (Mirage)! It isn't as good as part 2, but finishes off the story beautifully. But, if I were to grumble, where in the name of Primus is Prowl? Someone else mentioned this already, but Prowl is the Autobot with the least service done for him. And the Autobots flying does lift right out of the story for me, M.A.R.B.s would have been better. Fan-favorite in the Shockprowl household is Optimus trying to transform after the mine explosion, and the three mini-Autobots, er I think it's Huffer, Cliffjumper and Gears all cheering him one, "you got it! you got it!".
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 5, 2015 19:09:08 GMT
Headmasters is even better.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 6, 2015 8:52:19 GMT
Today is TRANSPORT TO OBLIVION day.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Sept 6, 2015 9:02:52 GMT
Thinking about that, do different DVD releases have episodes in different orders? I know for some shows that's a real issue, but Transformers is pretty stable isn't it? This simple list is right isn't it? |
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 6, 2015 9:05:14 GMT
I've been going by the running order on the UK DVD's. I'll have to check if it matches US airdate order.
-Ralph
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