Nigel
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 5,112
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Post by Nigel on Feb 25, 2016 14:36:10 GMT
Some of the best toys in the last ten years or so have been in the Generations style (including Classics, Universe, Reveal the Shield etc). I'm looking forward to some of the new toys, such as Skullcruncher and Mindwipe, and am excited to see what Hasbro does with Trypticon. But I'm actually quite bored with the same old, same old. We're constantly seeing characters rehashed and the same ideas recycled. It's not just toys, either, with cartoons centred largely on the same bunch of characters. Where's the originality? At least we got some new and interesting Predacons in RID, but nothing special in the Autobots. (Strongarm is Prowl by another name, Sideswipe is the latest in a line that includes Armada Hot Shot and Animated Bumblebee.) Rescue Bots shows the most originality at the moment and even that has Optimus Prime and Bumblebee, and conceptual similarities to (early) Animated.
We need another Beast Wars, metaphorically speaking: something original and a complete change of direction to that which went before.
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Post by Toph on Feb 25, 2016 15:13:24 GMT
Very much agree. Since Cybertron ended, absolutely *every* new continuity in TF has been Generation 1 based.
Some have done better to role in more advanced concepts than others, and thus don't feel quite as stale.
I would genuinely love to see a new series that uses BW, Armada, or Cybertron as its base. (I fall to this as it's literally impossible to predict a brand new concept someone else would have, combined with the fact Hasbro doesn't believe in new, anymore)
Also on a side, but related note, I think it's very telling to the quality of the mainline toys (both in concept of the continuity and the bad quality of the toys themselves, NuRID and Prime), when Hasbro is now treating Generations with the enthusiasm and linewide gimmicks that used to be reserved for the mainlines.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 25, 2016 16:15:12 GMT
Also on a side, but related note, I think it's very telling to the quality of the mainline toys (both in concept of the continuity and the bad quality of the toys themselves, NuRID and Prime), when Hasbro is now treating Generations with the enthusiasm and linewide gimmicks that used to be reserved for the mainlines. It's odd. The mainline stuff is still the stuff you see in the shops mainly, but Hasbro seems to have as little enthusiasm for it as the fans do. And uh, the factorys do too, given the horrific quality control on some of the nuRID figures (hello Steeljaw) |
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 25, 2016 23:02:33 GMT
It would be interesting to see a radical reboot and a new direction but I don't think it'll happen because everything about the brand these days is pretty much driven by the movies, except for Generations which has shown a degree of originality by moving onto gimmicks it's always shied away from.
Beast Wars was a way to reboot a dead brand, but Transformers is far from dead at the moment so Hasbro wouldn't risk starting again when they don't really need to.
RiD is more original than Prime was I think. Band of isolated Autobots hunting down renegade Decepticons. We haven't had that before. I don't see Strongarm as a Prowl analog, she's too young and inexperienced. I think her character is quite original.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 25, 2016 23:22:42 GMT
It's just a shame that Hasbro hit the reset button at the end of Beast Machines.
What would have happened if RID had not happened, and we ended up with some of the ideas from Armada onwards into an ongoing fictional narrative? Especially considering we could realistically expect to perhaps not have an Optimus Prime and Megatron for a short period of time.
Pinwig is right though, BW was borne out of necessity to try and jump start the brand again, and look at the early stages, Hasbro tried to hedge their bets with Machine Wars.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2016 13:14:21 GMT
Generations is the nostalgia brand. That's where the old characters belong. Mainline stuff (whatever the current cartoon or film is) should be where the new characters go. Simple.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 26, 2016 14:09:04 GMT
They daren't have an new line without the big names. I love my G1, but something totally new would be interesting.
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2016 20:17:53 GMT
In many ways Transformer parallels Star Trek. Both were about using the old to constantly push for the new before reverting to iterations of the initial concepts, slowly fading into nostalgic fixes rather than being at the zeitgeist.
-Ralph
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,249
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Post by The Huff on Feb 26, 2016 20:44:11 GMT
Beast Wars (to me) was always the 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' of the Transformers.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 26, 2016 22:23:11 GMT
If the mainline got a relaunch I'd want it to look like proper Transformers. Animated, Prime & RiD have all been a bit too stylised for my liking. Transformers has a house style that everything, save Beast Machines maybe, fitted into till the Movie came along. Go back to that. Since the Movie only Generations type lines have had it.
Personally I still feel one of the best reboots the line ever had was 1992 range: back to basics with Autobot cars vs Decepticon jets in the main doing both at pocket money sizes with a few gimmicks built in. You can trace the new toy element of G2 forward from here.
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 26, 2016 22:34:30 GMT
Wouldn't that be a reboot that would make the main line look like a cut down Generations though? nothing to make it unique. The main line will always follow the current trends in kids' animation styles.
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Post by legios on Feb 26, 2016 22:42:32 GMT
I don't think we'll see Transformers do anything radical or different for the foreseeable future. It is a Main Brand at Hasbro after all. Yes, that comes with a huge level of funding and support from corporate, but it also comes with the expectation that you will repay that with similarly huge earnings. That combination of support and expectations tends to lead to an impulse to play the sure thing. They know that they can sell a certain number of Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream toys a year and make X amount of money. Doing something new and different means they don't have that safety net. Like Nerf or Magic:The Gathering they'll stick with formula and only very slow and careful experimentation, if at all. Witness Generatiobs Brainstorm being used to test whether the detachable head concept will fly, being followed by Titanmasters once they felt confident it will sell. That's also why we see the nostalgia line and the mainlines retreading the same characters so much. The pressure of Main Brand status acts as a very strong disincentive to take risks.
For the record Nigel, I actually agree with some of what you've said. I've long since arrived at a point where my interest in the Generations line is waning, (my interest in Combiner Wars dropped significantly by Wave 4) and the main line does very little to stir my interest (what little I actually see of it on shelves). I've only bought two NuRiD figures - and only Strongarm is definitely staying in the collection. Curry Drift is currently being weighed against the original Drift to decide which one I keep and which I scrap.
My interest in Titans Return is pretty limited at this point - even if wherever I end up sees me living somewhere with enough space I'm not sure how much of it I'll be motivated to buy.
Karl
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 26, 2016 22:47:27 GMT
Not trying to influence your decision but if the white Generations one is found wanting I will gladly rehome it for you!
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Post by legios on Feb 26, 2016 22:49:49 GMT
I shall bear that in mind once a date for their Trial is determined... (They have set the rules - a standard Circle of Equals and a contest of bladesmanship, until one falls or yields...)
Karl
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 26, 2016 22:49:57 GMT
Wouldn't that be a reboot that would make the main line look like a cut down Generations though? nothing to make it unique. Gimmicks, characters, etc? Like what they did with Armada through Cybertron? Alt modes like in Beast Wars? The main line will always follow the current trends in kids' animation styles. I suppose. But that's not what I'm looking for in my Transformers. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 26, 2016 22:57:41 GMT
My interest in Titans Return is pretty limited at this point - even if wherever I end up sees me living somewhere with enough space I'm not sure how much of it I'll be motivated to buy. You can play with my Titans when you next visit. Oddly the toys from Combiner Wars that have really clicked with me are things like Optimus Prime, Cyclonus/Galvatronus, Sky Linx and the Autobot waves which have done something new with those characters giving us classic Autobot & Decepticon characters as combiners. Elsehwere they've been met with dersion for not being G1 enough. There's things coming this year that have similarly earned some fans wrath for not being slvishly G1 like the Powermaster Op Headmaster, HM Soundwave, Blaster, Galvatron and Astrotrain or even worse Sentinel Prime who wasn't even an original G1 character! Love them all. But there again when it came to combiner teams if they were doing the Aerialbots, Stunticons, Protectobots and Combaticons it did need to be the original Aerialbots, Stunticons, Protectobots and Combaticons for me. I paid out for extra team members to replace the replacements and have even bought Japanese boxsets to get them right. |
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 26, 2016 23:46:27 GMT
Gimmicks, characters, etc? Like what they did with Armada through Cybertron? Alt modes like in Beast Wars? I was thinking about this earlier actually. If you were going for a new line and not using vehicles or animals as alt modes, what could you use? I can't think of anything that would make a toyline work. Anything else Hasbro tried failed. Indeed. So we must remain thankful for Generations... |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 27, 2016 22:24:42 GMT
I just buy what I like when I can afford it. Generations is the nostalgia line so not the place for new characters so I look to whatever the mainline is for that when I want it.
-Ralph
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Rich
Protoform
Posts: 880
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Post by Rich on Feb 28, 2016 0:07:38 GMT
Gimmicks, characters, etc? Like what they did with Armada through Cybertron? Alt modes like in Beast Wars? I was thinking about this earlier actually. If you were going for a new line and not using vehicles or animals as alt modes, what could you use? I can't think of anything that would make a toyline work. Anything else Hasbro tried failed. Indeed. So we must remain thankful for Generations... Could TF do a Skylanders style line? I only vaguely understand what Skylanders is but it seems to have been the biggest new thing in toys in the last 10 years. |
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Post by KnightBeat on Feb 28, 2016 23:52:46 GMT
I was thinking about this earlier actually. If you were going for a new line and not using vehicles or animals as alt modes, what could you use? Rocks! |
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on Feb 29, 2016 13:27:45 GMT
Plants! I still want a BM Botanica toy.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 29, 2016 13:31:03 GMT
Plants! I still want a BM Botanica toy. It is a bit of an odd omission, but I guess that's just how little-regarded BM is! (Actually, putting in a regular character who was never down for a toy was equally odd!) PLANTMASTERS! Rose with spring-loaded thorns! Daffodil with mist-spraying action! Sycamore with spinning action! All of them with a little compartment to grow cress on! |
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Post by blueshift on Feb 29, 2016 13:43:48 GMT
CRESSMASTERS
TRANSFORMERS HIDE THE CRESS INSIDE
MIGHTY ROBOTS, MIGHTY CRESS
CRESS IN DISGUISE
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Post by Llama God on Feb 29, 2016 14:04:56 GMT
"It's time for you to eat your greens, Decepticons!"
"... What?"
"We have no idea."
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Post by Toph on Feb 29, 2016 15:22:56 GMT
I think the chief reason why she's not considered in more recent years (now that there are more adult focused lines) is that there's nothing to her, transformation wise.
Change her head, and there's not much else they can do.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 29, 2016 15:39:04 GMT
I think the chief reason why she's not considered in more recent years (now that there are more adult focused lines) is that there's nothing to her, transformation wise. Change her head, and there's not much else they can do. You could put a little platform on her to grow cress. |
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,249
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Post by The Huff on Feb 29, 2016 16:21:14 GMT
Not vehicles or animals as the next thing? This is something I've thought about a lot and the thing I've always thought of was something like 'Appliance- Wars' where everyone is tiny and transform into handheld devices (think Real Gear Robots or Microman) like phones, ipads and yes guns and music players. Of course there would be no mass shifting - instead of giant robots, you would have mini robots.
There could be some great stories with this.
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Nigel
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 5,112
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Post by Nigel on Feb 29, 2016 16:32:03 GMT
Could TF do a Skylanders style line? I only vaguely understand what Skylanders is but it seems to have been the biggest new thing in toys in the last 10 years. There was something a few years ago. I remember seeing it in New York Toy Fair pictures. I don't know what came of it. Then there are the Angry Birds toys, which sadly didn't make it over here. Oh, and the scan element of RID. Edit. Found it. SDCC 2013. Beambox. news.tfw2005.com/2013/07/18/sdcc-2013-rescue-bots-on-display-178028 |
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Post by Toph on Feb 29, 2016 16:48:13 GMT
Actually, I think Legion, Legends, or Scouts would be pretty perfect for a Skylanders/Disney Infinity type game.
A small self contained transforming figure of an iconic character, with a base.
Though I think at this point instead of using actual toys, they would go with the statuettes that the others use, and the game would be a combination of *all* Hasbro franchises. TF, Joe, Jem, MLP, Monopoly, Battleship... Anything that isn't owned by Disney.
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 29, 2016 17:06:56 GMT
Alt modes that aren't vehicles or animals...?
Well, there really isn't anything, is there? That would work in terms of play factor, cress growing aside....
And how long before Doc' suggests Animorphs?
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