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Post by Toph on Feb 28, 2016 1:09:50 GMT
I don't think I can vote. Hate Sunbow with a passion. So I'll never vote for that. Not seen the end to any japanese series save true RiD I feel like you'd enjoy Masterforce. Bit of a slow start, but once it gets going its great. It has character arcs and plots and everything! I don't think I would, because I cannot stand *anything* I've ever read about it. I've seen some tf anime. Not a lot, but some. And aside from RiD and BWN, I HATE TF ANIME. I hate it i hate it i hate it. I hate the animu tropes that are applied to it. I hate the plot directions japanese writers go with it. Cybertron was beyond dull, and Energon/Superlink is systematically the worst fiction ever created. Armada was mediocre at best. BWII and BWN are silly and enjoyablish in their own rights, but when you look at what they followed up from, they're pure garbage. Car Robots/RiD is the only one that the animu tropes work for, and stands up really well. So no. I'm 99% positive I would not like Masterforce. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 28, 2016 8:33:12 GMT
I don't deny that it's the deepest and most thought provoking of the series; it's a fine show and I got very caught up with the ending, but to me it just wasn't Transformers. That's reasonable then. Like so many things in TF fandom, it comes down to whether you think 'Transformers' means giant alien warring robots dominating the stories or alien robots hiding in humanity's midst and occasionally coming out into the open in all their glory. I fall into the latter camp. For me, the 1986 animated movie wasn't Transformers concept. (It was more Star Wars than Transformers!) But the Michael Bay movies are. (Trouble is, unlike Masterforce they're just not good.) Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 28, 2016 9:45:17 GMT
I can empathise with Jetty. Many people have asked me if I am going to see the Deadpoll movie (because I like Marvel and also film as an art form in general is one of my main hobbies) and have been confused when I have said no. I can't stand the comics character so I know a film (no matter how well made) is not something I will enjoy. It's a film that could never win with me so why waste 2 hours on it? I can't say it's rubbish as I haven't seen it just that I feel I am unlikely to be interested. So if Masterforce really does not look like it's your thing don't feel you have to watch it. It's not like there is a dearth of TF shows to watch anyway!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 28, 2016 11:34:42 GMT
That's reasonable then. Like so many things in TF fandom, it comes down to whether you think 'Transformers' means giant alien warring robots dominating the stories or alien robots hiding in humanity's midst and occasionally coming out into the open in all their glory. I like a mixture of both, but in terms of Earth stories I would rate something like Man of Iron far more highly than anything else for those reasons. But I don't think Masterforce does that very well because again, apart from the Pretenders, the robots in disguise aren't robots. It's a story about humans utilising alien technology to help the few they do meet, and those few get so marginalised as to be forgotten about a fifth of the way through the story. I've always wondered what the point of the end is; it's like some last minute remembrance that the series is actually about robots. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 28, 2016 11:47:19 GMT
I like a mixture of both, but in terms of Earth stories I would rate something like Man of Iron far more highly than anything else for those reasons. But I don't think Masterforce does that very well because again, apart from the Pretenders, the robots in disguise aren't robots. It's a story about humans utilising alien technology to help the few they do meet, and those few get so marginalised as to be forgotten about a fifth of the way through the story. I know what you mean, but 'Man of Iron' is a story that fits with the Transformers' early days on Earth, when humans didn't know about them and they didn't fully understand humans. Masterforce is not a reboot, it is a 21st Century sequel to Sunbow (or if you prefer, you can like me pretend it's a sequel to Marvel) and a logical progression from those 1984-5 stories. The Transformers and humans have learnt a lot about each other by now and technology has moved on too, so the Autobots can disguise themselves as humans, and both sides have learnt that they can create more powerful warriors by interfacing the robot bodies with humans. Humans meanwhile have learnt that they need the Autobots as allies, and how to build machines using Cybertronian technology. Unless you keep rebooting the universe, you can't keep telling stories like 'Man of Iron' forever. It seems to me you either you have to leave Earth, destroy Earth or do something like Masterforce. Of those options, number three is the one for me. If there was a good TF cartoon series that did early days stories like 'Man of Iron', I might prefer it to Masterforce, but as far as I know there isn't, and I don't feel the need for one as I have the comics. I'm happy to read comics for the 20th Century TF story and watch Masterforce for the 21st Century sequel story. Martin |
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 28, 2016 11:50:35 GMT
From that perspective it does make more sense. I see what you're getting at with that.
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 28, 2016 22:08:10 GMT
It's a while since I watched it. Was Masterforce set in the 21st century?
-Ralph
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Post by Benn on Feb 28, 2016 22:43:53 GMT
Set after Headmasters, which was a direct sequel to Transformers: 2010, so yeah, I would guess so.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2016 13:45:29 GMT
I felt that Beast Machines had a final episode that wrapped off things as neatly as possible given the circumstances. And had a decent fight scene between Optimus and Optimal Megatron.
The final episode(s) of Beast Wars unfortunately had a "this will do" quality about them on too many levels, most likely due to organisational issues and budgetary restrictions.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 29, 2016 13:59:02 GMT
I liked the final ep of Beast Wars enough (and FURMAN!) but obviously it was no The Agenda. It was weakened by season 3 feeling very rushed and focussed on selling the new toys episode by episode (as opposed to season 2 which just got the new toy intros out of the way at the start for the most part) and with that peculiar Beast Wars thing where some characters are made of glass and die easily while others are invincible. I liked the whole bit with Optimus and Megatron quoting verse at each other whilst fighting, just a shame those bodies are the least iconic ones (and worst designs!)
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Post by blueshift on Feb 29, 2016 14:04:26 GMT
I've seen some tf anime. Not a lot, but some. And aside from RiD and BWN, I HATE TF ANIME. I hate it i hate it i hate it. I hate the animu tropes that are applied to it. I hate the plot directions japanese writers go with it. Cybertron was beyond dull, and Energon/Superlink is systematically the worst fiction ever created. Armada was mediocre at best. BWII and BWN are silly and enjoyablish in their own rights, but when you look at what they followed up from, they're pure garbage. Car Robots/RiD is the only one that the animu tropes work for, and stands up really well. So no. I'm 99% positive I would not like Masterforce. To be fair though, I honestly thought I'd hate Masterforce too. I am not a big anime fan, I hated everything I'd heard about it and saw about it and the focus on animu humans and where are the space robots, and clearly Headmasters and Victory would be superior, but it was in the boxset of all the Japanese cartoons so I thought I'd watch it anyway. Well done you on having watched all of BWN. I didn't think anyone had! But then again I was STUNNED to learn that Nick had watched all of Energon and was still alive. I'd argue that Cybertron is the worst fiction ever created; at least the start of Energon is somewhat competent and exciting before it crashes horribly off the rails. Cybertron starts off the rails in a little fiery pile and keeps burning. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 29, 2016 14:05:09 GMT
Oddly enough one of the main problems I had with the Beast Wars finale was the ease of Tigerhawk's dispatch. Previously shown as being quite powerful he gets wiped out by some missiles? Surely the Vok teleported him away at the last second or something?
Whereas the finale to the Rampage/Depth Charge rivalry ..... Now that was well done!
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Post by blueshift on Feb 29, 2016 14:17:55 GMT
Oh yeah I forgot about the Depth Charge bit, that was good.
The fragile characters was a recurring problem with Beast Wars though. Dinobot dies in Code of Hero, but all the Predacons take equal or worse damage and are fine because it's comedy violence (DOINNNNNNNG) mixed in with stuff that's supposed to be serious pathos. Inferno and Rampage blatantly die on-screen in The Agenda yet are absolutely fine in season 3. Tarantulus is blown up in the same explosion that kills Ravage, but he's fine and Ravage is dead because magic.
Beast Wars season 4 could have opened with a blackened, smoking Tigerhawk wiping soot off his face in a comedic manner whilst shaking his fist at the sky and that would have fit with everything else!
(I still love the show, but that mixed tone really hurt it in places!)
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Post by Toph on Feb 29, 2016 15:26:08 GMT
Well done you on having watched all of BWN. I didn't think anyone had! But then again I was STUNNED to learn that Nick had watched all of Energon and was still alive. I never said I saw all of BWN. I've only seen a handfull of episodes someone gave me. |
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Post by Toph on Feb 29, 2016 15:28:44 GMT
Oddly enough one of the main problems I had with the Beast Wars finale was the ease of Tigerhawk's dispatch. Previously shown as being quite powerful he gets wiped out by some missiles? Surely the Vok teleported him away at the last second or something? Whereas the finale to the Rampage/Depth Charge rivalry ..... Now that was well done! Oh yeah I forgot about the Depth Charge bit, that was good. The fragile characters was a recurring problem with Beast Wars though. Dinobot dies in Code of Hero, but all the Predacons take equal or worse damage and are fine because it's comedy violence (DOINNNNNNNG) mixed in with stuff that's supposed to be serious pathos. Inferno and Rampage blatantly die on-screen in The Agenda yet are absolutely fine in season 3. Tarantulus is blown up in the same explosion that kills Ravage, but he's fine and Ravage is dead because magic. Beast Wars season 4 could have opened with a blackened, smoking Tigerhawk wiping soot off his face in a comedic manner whilst shaking his fist at the sky and that would have fit with everything else! (I still love the show, but that mixed tone really hurt it in places!) To be fair, Inferno was done. Mainframe killed him, but hasbro told them to bring him back because he was an expensive toy they were still selling. Tigerhawk has a similar story. Hasbro made them put him in and sell him like the greatest thing ever, because Big Toy, then decided they were going to cancel it. They said to kill him off, tgen decided to release him, anyway. That's on Hasbro, not mainframe |
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Post by blueshift on Feb 29, 2016 15:38:19 GMT
That's interesting. Right decision re: Inferno anyway, as he was such an entertaining character and his toy shelfwarmed like the devil so obviously Hasbro would have wanted to push him as much as possible!
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Post by blueshift on Feb 29, 2016 15:40:03 GMT
I never said I saw all of BWN. I've only seen a handfull of episodes someone gave me. The impossible quest continues!! |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 29, 2016 17:33:05 GMT
The Quest Is The Quest!
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
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Post by The Huff on Feb 29, 2016 22:32:14 GMT
Cybertron in my opinion had the best final episode. Honestly - just watch it. The threat is over in the episode prior and it's all about all the characters (Autobots and Decepticons)continuing with new ventures in peace time. A real happy ending. This series had some really good characters and was the last one before everything had to be a G1 homage.
The Prime ending (which wasn't actually the ending as there was the Predacons Rising TV movie) deserves a mention as it was sad when the Autobots had to leave.
Also re-watching The Rebirth recently, that does tie up everything nicely too.
But I'll stick with my vote of Cybertron having the best final episode.
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Post by Toph on Feb 29, 2016 22:35:27 GMT
I love finales that have down time. It irritates me when the big bad battle lasts until like, one minute until the end.
I like seeing what the characters do once the crisis is over.
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chrisl
Empty
I still think its the 1990s - when I joined TMUK
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Post by chrisl on Mar 1, 2016 9:01:22 GMT
Massive fan of both Masterforce and Victory, but I also really like the final episode of Beast Wars II.
The final battle part of Masterforce is better than Victory, but I prefer the way that Victory has a proper epilogue explaining what happens next.
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