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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 6, 2016 18:50:45 GMT
the original bodies of Primus and Unicron. They leapt into the Astral Plane to fight and then afterwards leapt back into those metallic asteroids. Their original bodies are potentially still out there...
Seems like a big hook that could have been used and I'm surprised it wasn't.
Andy
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Post by blueshift on Mar 6, 2016 18:56:29 GMT
the original bodies of Primus and Unicron. They leapt into the Astral Plane to fight and then afterwards leapt back into those metallic asteroids. Their original bodies are potentially still out there... Seems like a big hook that could have been used and I'm surprised it wasn't. Andy Primus's original body became a world ...NAMED GOBOTRON |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 6, 2016 19:41:00 GMT
I had presumed their bodies were destroyed along with everything else when the current universe overwrote theirs.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 6, 2016 20:43:43 GMT
The current universe didn't overwrite them though. Unicron survived the old Universe into our one and Primus was created in response.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 6, 2016 20:53:56 GMT
I had always presumed he was about before this Universe and had merely been recreated/rebooted in ours, which makes sense when you think about it.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 6, 2016 21:00:48 GMT
I had always presumed he was about before this Universe and had merely been recreated/rebooted in ours, which makes sense when you think about it. -Ralph The Void explicitly states Primus was created by the sentient core of our Universe to fight Unicron. Andy |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Mar 6, 2016 21:20:38 GMT
It is true.
As to the bodies I don't think they are floating about somewhere. Always read more to me as if they stepped through a portal into the astral plane bodily rather than just uploading there minds to it. Otherwise Unicron would hardly have been tricked into following Primus there.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 6, 2016 21:43:49 GMT
I had always presumed he was about before this Universe and had merely been recreated/rebooted in ours, which makes sense when you think about it. -Ralph The Void explicitly states Primus was created by the sentient core of our Universe to fight Unicron. Andy There's a lot unreliable narration going an around that story. Also: a sentient core was probably around before this universe anyway. Unicron existed before. So did Primus. It's an eternal cycle. -Ralph |
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Post by blueshift on Mar 6, 2016 22:14:49 GMT
They had physical energy bodies, which were floating out there waiting for them to return to:  |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Mar 6, 2016 22:43:42 GMT
Darn you and your evidence!
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 7, 2016 6:59:53 GMT
There's a lot unreliable narration going an around that story. This is the crux of the matter. All the Primus and Unicron origin stories in the comics are dependent on stories told by people with an interest in exaggerating their own importance in the cosmic scheme of things. If I were an objective observer within the Marvel TF universe I would treat them with extreme scepticism and demand that they both provide evidence that they were ever anything more than they are now - namely very large robotic life-forms with demonstrably limited mental/teleportation powers - certainly not top league cosmic powers in the wider '80s Marvel universe. Primus and Unicron may even believe their own origin stories, if that is what their creators programmed them to believe, but nobody else should. How many entities in the Marvel universe do we suppose make claims to less developed races that they are older than the universe, were once gods but have inconveniently lost their powers so that they are now trapped in physical bodies and need the help of mortals to achieve their cosmic purpose? How many of them are genuine? It's Star Trek V all over again. What does God need with a starship? What does God need with an army of transforming robots with laser guns? Martin |
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
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Post by primenova on Mar 7, 2016 7:34:35 GMT
I always took it that when they became mind energy the energy body got destroyed without having life in it after a while.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 7, 2016 7:42:03 GMT
PS The fact that Primus and Unicron use visual aids that portray their energy forms as humanoid beings with armour, swords and shields billions of years before the humanoid form evolved to walk on solid planets and hold physical objects in their hands makes it all doubly suspicious.
If they do have energy forms floating in space somewhere, they should not look like _that_.
Martin
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chrisl
Empty
I still think its the 1990s - when I joined TMUK
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Post by chrisl on Mar 7, 2016 11:17:29 GMT
I think Martin's points would make for a much more interesting story than finding the old bodies of Primus/Unicron. What if they were nowhere near as powerful or fundamental as all of the third-party information makes out? Why would they develop such an origin story? What impact would that have on the status quo?
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Post by blueshift on Mar 7, 2016 11:53:18 GMT
I think Martin's points would make for a much more interesting story than finding the old bodies of Primus/Unicron. What if they were nowhere near as powerful or fundamental as all of the third-party information makes out? Why would they develop such an origin story? What impact would that have on the status quo?  But seriously, one tale was told by Unicron, the other by Primus and they do match up, unless we want to start thinking that these ancient enemies colluded on a silly story to tell people. |
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
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Post by primenova on Mar 7, 2016 12:37:13 GMT
They have to have them human form like because when toy designers come up with a line they have a number of things to follow - we don't want them to be complex or it'll cost us more money to make the toys. they have to be easy for artist to draw so we can have a tie in cartoon. Unicron would look more like Alpha Q than human. But would you buy your kids a toy line where all the toys where squid like things?
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 7, 2016 18:10:09 GMT
I agree with Martin.
Also, a giant humanoid mode makes no sense for Primus/Unicron unless they exist in a universe scaled to them. They can't walk on anything!
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Mar 7, 2016 18:19:59 GMT
I think the reason they had a pre-humanoid form is that otherwise why would Unicron have made himself a giant humanoid robot form to float about in space with.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 7, 2016 19:13:20 GMT
I think the reason they had a pre-humanoid form is that otherwise why would Unicron have made himself a giant humanoid robot form to float about in space with. Erm. And the reason Unicron made himself a giant humanoid robot form to float around space with was that otherwise why else would they have had pre-humanoid energy forms??? LOGIC MELTDOWN!!! Isn't it a teensy weensy bit more probable that the reason why Unicron has legs but nothing to walk on, and why Primus and Unicron think they used to look like armoured humanoid gladiators with legs but nothing to walk on, is that they were built and programmed by someone who had legs and something to walk on? Martin |
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Post by blueshift on Mar 7, 2016 19:49:30 GMT
I think the reason they had a pre-humanoid form is that otherwise why would Unicron have made himself a giant humanoid robot form to float about in space with. Erm. And the reason Unicron made himself a giant humanoid robot form to float around space with was that otherwise why else would they have had pre-humanoid energy forms??? LOGIC MELTDOWN!!! Isn't it a teensy weensy bit more probable that the reason why Unicron has legs but nothing to walk on, and why Primus and Unicron think they used to look like armoured humanoid gladiators with legs but nothing to walk on, is that they were built and programmed by someone who had legs and something to walk on? Martin Look Martin Zarak, the whims of space gods are not for us mortals to know and understand!! |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 7, 2016 20:06:05 GMT
Given that we never saw Cybertron transform into a humanoid-form of Primus it is reasonable to suggest that he just thought he had such a mode/was programmed to think so. Who then made Transformers who strangely had humanoid modes that they realy don't need.
So who came up with the notion for humanoid forms for the Transformers and their 'gods' then?
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 7, 2016 20:06:17 GMT
It would make sense if somehow, one or both of their bodies in whatever form it turned out to be constituted The Hub. Perhaps the Liege Maximo after leaving Cybertron back in the dim and distant past uncovered them and utilised them in his great creation.
Andy
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Post by blueshift on Mar 7, 2016 20:12:52 GMT
Given that we never saw Cybertron transform into a humanoid-form of Primus it is reasonable to suggest that he just thought he had such a mode/was programmed to think so. Who then made Transformers who strangely had humanoid modes that they realy don't need. He did have a giant head in the middle though! |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 7, 2016 20:14:31 GMT
Which is by itself very interesting. Why is is there? To convince Primus he is 'real'?
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 7, 2016 20:23:06 GMT
I think Martin's points would make for a much more interesting story than finding the old bodies of Primus/Unicron. What if they were nowhere near as powerful or fundamental as all of the third-party information makes out? Why would they develop such an origin story? What impact would that have on the status quo? But seriously, one tale was told by Unicron, the other by Primus and they do match up, unless we want to start thinking that these ancient enemies colluded on a silly story to tell people. Primacron could have happened in Marvel continuity too. No way Unicron tells that part of the story. Though probably Primacron would not be as special as he claims to be in Call of the Primatives. The smaller robots he built attracted Unicrons attention who granted him immortality in return for helping to shape his rocky form. He may have inspired Primus too, but Primus as a god of light may have naturally been more able to create his new form, or a planet and giving life to indivduals is easier than turning a rock in to a giant transforming robot. As a Chaos Bringer Unicron being so good at making things seems a bit off. as for the bodies still being out there, they get referred to as physical bodies and energy forms. Physical bodies I suppose are still around, mined as in GOTG maybe. Energy forms might dissapate or some how becomes suns, blackholes or maybe solar systems just formed around them as they were. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 8, 2016 7:05:52 GMT
Given that we never saw Cybertron transform into a humanoid-form of Primus it is reasonable to suggest that he just thought he had such a mode/was programmed to think so. Who then made Transformers who strangely had humanoid modes that they realy don't need. The true answer is obviously the humans who designed the Transformers (Diaclone, whatever) toy line, because they were to be sold to human children. Though Bob Budiansky and co. who made the first comics and cartoons missed a trick by showing them as having humanoid forms before they came to Earth. They should have been non-humanoid prior to leaving Cybertron. But at least humanoid Transformers on Cybertron have something to walk on with their legs! He did have a giant head in the middle though! Actually he had a face, not a head, and it wasn't big enough to be the face of a humanoid mode for the planet. The Keeper could have built that face. He had a lot of time on his hands. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 8, 2016 9:29:57 GMT
Yes...the face isn't big enough...interesting...
That Keeper chap knows more than he lets on.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 8, 2016 18:07:21 GMT
That Keeper chap knows more than he lets on. Knew, past tense. His final words were "Whatever happens, Primus must not be awakened. Unicron would--*" We may never know what he was going to say. That whole scene struck me as not only Star Trek V, but also very Wizard of Oz. Martin |
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Post by blueshift on Mar 8, 2016 18:44:53 GMT
What did Keeper turn into?
I bet he was Primus's moustache.
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Rich
Protoform
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Post by Rich on Mar 8, 2016 19:08:50 GMT
I'm not really going with this aliens shouldn't be humanoid thing anymore. It might seem illogical to us that they should be humanoid but there's a great deal that isn't logical or doesn't follow our understanding of physics in the TF universe. In the TF universe, as in the Star Wars universe and the Star Trek universe and hundreds of others, maybe it just so happens that the dominant and most often successful species are bipeds and vaguely similar looking to humans; perhaps the conditions that foster life throughout those universes are extremely narrow and evolution repeatedly throws up similar forms. Perhaps Unicron and Primus once strode around on planets so vast as to be beyond our conception of size. Perhaps they are gods and are given shape by their believers; perhaps what we call a god is, in fact, another form of extraterrestrial that feeds on faith and adapts its form to feed the tastes of its food supply.
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