CHESS!

[Pinwig]

Ooh I think you said that before didn't you. So it's like extra time then penalties. I think a draw would be more fair.

Or do it like tennis where you just keep going.

[Shockprowl]

I'd be up for the good old days (that I've read about, and vaguely remember...), best of 24 games, OR first to 6 wins (this is why the FIRST great Karpov/Kasparov match began in 1984, but 'ended' in 1985! IT LASTED FIVE MONTHS!!!). Then draw-odds to the Champion would be acceptable.

Problem is, modern dumbed-down media couldn't handle such a protracted event!

[Shockprowl]

The crux of the matter is, it is ONLY through a long match that the strongest of two players can be determined. THAT IS HOW CHESS FUNDAMENTALLY WORKS.

[Shockprowl]

Nov 24, 2018 23:55:33 GMT Pinwig said:

Or do it like tennis where you just keep going.

But THIS is a very interesting concept. Something I've been pondering only this very day. Some kind of 'not quite draw-odds swift solution' to a match.

The very nature of chess is that White always has an advantage, because WHITE MOVES FIRST. The very essence of a game of chess in the opening and early middlegame is White attempts to 'obtain an advantage' out of the opening through this move advantage. While Black's objective is to EQUALISE the possition.

Soooooooo could there be a system where if a player wins with White, then draws with Black, they win the match? Or draw with Black then win with White? A win with Black instantly wins? Or or or something like that?!?! First to win doesn't quite work, you see, BECAUSE OF WHITE'S FIRST MOVE ADVANTAGE!

I... I just don't know! But resorting to Rapid and then Blitz (and then Armageddon!) JUST FEELS WRONG. Stienitz would not approve.

[blueshift]

Does white having an advantage pan out statistically though? I'd imagine if it did then competitive chess wouldnt be a thing

[Shockprowl]

There's lots of information and theory out there on the 'First Move Advantage' in chess. I've read various things over the time I've been back into chess. Statistically White does indeed win slightly more often than Black. Off the top of my head something in the region of 52% and 56% is a one figure I've come across, but other sources have other figures. Moving first is not as important in a amateur games, however, and there can be a psychological burden in moving first. Black always has counter-attacking options, particularly if White over reaches. But in top level chess, generally those in the know agree White has an advantage in moving first, and it's White's aim to maintain that advantage and Black's aim to 'equalise'.

[Stomski]

Surely some players are naturally better at white than black and vice versa then?

And as humans we are possibly more comfortable taking the initiative position that white offers rather than the reactionary stance of black which could result in a skew in statistics, rather than a fundamental imbalance in the game.

[Shockprowl]

Nov 26, 2018 12:33:20 GMT Stomski said:

Surely some players are naturally better at white than black and vice versa then?

It's generally considered that at top level, and even club level, that having the first move is an advantage. But yes, over chess history there have been a few specialist counter-attackers. The great Vicktor Korchnoi for example would weather his opponent's assault before mercilessly obliterating him in a stunning counter-attack. Caruana, in fact, has turned the 'Petrov Defense' into a potent weapon as black. And of course many a grandmaster has been humiliated over the years by Kasparov's brutal King's Indian Defense'.

[Shockprowl]

The final classical game, game twelve, WAS ANOTHER DRAW. Carlsen caused some controversy by offering a draw when had a decent position with more time on his clock. But clearly he had it in his head to just survive this last game (with the black pieces), and go into the rapid tiebreak afresh.

Rest day today. Tiebreaks tomorrow! Four games of 25 minutes each (they also get a time increment each move as well). GRIPPING STUFF. SO TENSE.

[Shockprowl]

.........................




have you... have any of you seen any of the Rapid Tiebreaks....?

[Shockprowl]

Hmmmmmmmmm....?



Anypony?



Have you?

[Shockprowl]

HAVE YOU?!?!?!?!!!

[Andy Turnbull]

No.

[Stomski]

No.

[Pinwig]

Yes, yes I have.

...

No.

[Pinwig]

Yes!

I watched some youtubage of two men moving chess pieces very quickly around a board. I noted the board and pieces are quite large. They liked to switch off an alarm clock that was not going off.

[Shockprowl]

Ohhhh aye, y' can't beat a NICE BIG chess board 'n' pieces. Oh aye.


FEEL THE WOOD.



FEEL THE WOOD.

[Shockprowl]

FEEL THE WOOD, PINWIG.

[Pinwig]

Well, if you insist.

[Shockprowl]

Great! You want to be White?

[Pinwig]

Is that some kind of euphemism I don't understand?

[Shockprowl]

....................

[Shockprowl]

Ok, well I think it's safe to give you the result now. Anyone who wants to has had chance to catch up. But just incase- SPOILER ALERT!





The winner of the 2018 Chess World Championship is-









MAGNUS CARLSEN




The tiebreak was four 'Rapid' games where they each had 25 minutes for all their moves. And Carlsen won the first three. He blew Caruana off the board to be honest, very convincing, very dominant. The first game was touch and go, but Carlsen totally out-played Caruana in the Endgame. After that, the American had no answer.

I feel sorry for Caruana, he handled himself very well and out-prepared Carlsen. In the interviews afterwards Carlsen was quite candid, saying Caruana was the strongest he'd faced yet in a match, and that there was nothing to separate them in classical chess. Certainly the pundits feel Caruana out-prepared Carlsen. When asked if rapid and blitz should be included in a 'Classical' world championship, Caruana seemed cagey, not wanting to make excuses for his loss, but seemed eager to explore other options. Carlsen said that he has no problem with faster time controls being part of it, as he feels it is for the world championship of ALL chess. Very interesting. Both players, Caruana in particular, would have welcomed a longer match.

Caruana has certainly made lots of fans through the Championship, he's come across very well indeed, and opinion is he's only going to get stronger. There is no doubting Carlsen's genius, but several pundits were disappointed with his open-prep' and apparent desire to just 'get to the tiebreak' later on in the match, where he's just so strong. But again, Carlsen was candid in the interviews, saying he feels he needs to improve his classical chess play, and that he has not been as strong as he should be for the last "couple of years".

I've really enjoyed the Championship. I didn't mind all the draws at all. Every one, apart from the last one, was a 'fighting' draw. Compelling chess from the first and third highest rated players in history.

[Stomski]

Maybe they should expand the world championships to include matches for the different time limited variants.

I can definitely see some players being better on a tight clock than others, similarly some more suited to a longer clock... and both should be celebrated.

[Shockprowl]

There actually already is a world championship for both Rapid chess and Blitz. Which is one of the reasons why there are so many who are dissatisfied with the current Championship format.

I should say though that the world championships for Rapid and Blitz are done in a 'knock-out' not 'match' format. In chess, it is only through a long match that the strongest between two players can be determined. 'Classical' chess is fundamentally seen as 'proper' or 'true' chess. Now Rapid and Blitz deffinatly have their place, and indeed are very entertaining and put chess into the realms of 'spectator sport', but 'Classical' is seen as the pinnacle of the sport.

[Pinwig]

It's twenty twenty cricket all over again.

[Pinwig]

Nov 30, 2018 10:21:47 GMT Stomski said:

I can definitely see some players being better on a tight clock than others, similarly some more suited to a longer clock... and both should be celebrated.

See, if I'd said that, Shockprowl would have called me a slut.

[Shockprowl]

The World Chess Champions:


WILHELM STEINITZ
EMANUEL LASKER
JOSE RAUL CAPABLANCA
ALEXANDER ALEKHINE
MAX EUWE
MIKHAIL BOTVINNIK
VASILLY SMYSLOV
MIKHAIL TAL
TIGRAN PETROSIAN
BORIS SPASSKY
BOBBY FISCHER
ANATOLY KARPOV
GARRY KASPAROV
VLADIMIR KRAMNIK
VISWANATHAN ANAND
MAGNUS CARLSEN

[Stomski]

This was fun. I think just the way they physically move some of the pieces is a bit of a give away. Sliding or putting down hard etc.

[Shockprowl]

Haaa!

That was hilarious! I've never seen that before, a double hustle!


You could tell they knew what they were doing fairly on though, simply by the way they were touching and moving their pieces! Very funny though.