Cease and Desist for Kapow Toys

[Andy Turnbull]

Not sure which product, but it's a day I've seen coming for a while now, not specifically at Kapow, but Hasbro were always going to start looking into this a bit more and eventually flex some legal muscle.

[The Doctor]

Good.

-Ralph

[blueshift]

As I said before, my bet is on the third party movie toys. In the past, the only time Hasbro has spurred to action is when stuff infringes with contracts they have rather than their direct IP. the movie designs are joint owned by paramount aren't they?

[Toph]

Could also be the MP stuff as companies like Porche and Lamborghini are fiercely protective.

[Fortmax2020]

Suspect the continuing rise of 3P stuff and its sale/promotion by venders selling their products alongside has reached a level Hasbro (and it's partners) now can't ignore. Especially given the crossover in product with their offerings in the Generations line.

[Toph]

It also started out with accessories, plus stuff hasbro couldn't, or wouldn't do.

Now they are directly competing against Hasbro/Takara, no longer sticking to these obscure things hasbro has no plans of ever doing.
And as they've all settled into trying to beat Takara to the punch with MPs, I feel they've largely become irrelevant.
What's the point in doing a sunbow styled Hotrod after Takara has released TWO sunbow styled Hotrods?
What's the point in trying to do these '84/'85 characters at all?

3P products used to support the official product and the official lines. New heads and weapons. Battle armor, trailers, and third tier characters.
Now they seem to be trying to replace the official product.

[Philip Ayres]

I wonder if anyone else has had contact from the Hasbro lawyers?

I presume official stuff has to be worth more to them than 3p? Especially as they also do Star Wars and Marvel Legends. I've seen pictures of some of their Hasbro deliveries, they,re HUGE!

Have the lawyers been after the 3p manufacturers too?

[Toph]

BBTS has been clearancing a lot of 3P stuff lately. Some of it pretty new.
They've also slowed down on preorders of new product.

I hadn't thought much about it as the market seems to be bottoming out, but they may be intentionally moving out of it.

[Fortmax2020]

Possible they've also been received a warning or been told to get out of the market or be forced to.

[Pinwig]

Follow up posts from Red Leader on TFW say this will affect preorders on two products from one company, so it sounds quite specifically targeted. It'll be interesting to see what happens, obviously, but my only concern would be that people who have preorders get their money back. Beyond that it's impossible to know what this all means yet.

[Dezzeh]

Wasn't there a lockdown coming out or did that already happen?

[blueshift]

Aug 26, 2017 20:44:14 GMT Dezzeh said:

Wasn't there a lockdown coming out or did that already happen?

A Lockdown and a Dino

[Pinwig]

Not out yet. Unique Toys Peru Kill. The dog is part of the same set.

[duffism1981]

I haven't seen anything other than talk about it, but according to people on twitter Hasbro and/or Takara have issues Fans Toys with a cease and desist also. It seems they are finally doing something.

[Dezzeh]

Glad I don't have any more pre-orders open right now. I assume this isn't going to affect any China based companies right now?

[browny87]

i totally get why they are doing this although its going to be difficult for Hasbro to stop it depending on their patents

[Pinwig]

Hmm. I do.

I'd assume under usual British law that if I've paid upfront for something I don't get I should be refunded, but I'll have to wait and see if it comes to that! Pity if it is Fans Toys, they're the only 3P company I care about these days.

[browny87]

yeah you would be eligible for money back, a cease and desist is always interesting because as I say it depends on what grounds Hasbro are challenging and what patents they have to back that up.

[blueshift]

Fan Toys eh? Huh. What have they been doing then?

Not seen any chat about it myself outside here.

[Pinwig]

That's good. I hope that is just a rumour. All they do is MP style G1 characters. Possibly they could draw attention as they're the best and most polished products - generally better finished than Takara - but they aren't doing anything anyone else isn't. Their angle now is producing figures that really look like the original character models as opposed to having a unique aesthetic like most 3P companies. Which could conceivably be a problem I suppose.

[Pinwig]

This seems to be based on this random tweet, which was picked up on TFW. The tweeter says he heard this 'through friends' and that their Hot Rod and Arcee are the problem figures, which would concur with Kapow saying one company and two preorders, but those two are so far down the line they're not even up for pre-order yet. 

[The Doctor]

I have no problem with fan products whether they be fanzines, books, films, toys, tea trays, etc so long as they are done on a not-for-profit basis and aren't sold as the real thing. I have no problem with the folk making them charging for them, again so long as it is a not for profit basis, ie making the money back on printing or whatever but not making a penny for themselves (I have contributed to various fanzines run this way). I have no problem with crowdfunding to pay for such things but again only if the money is used to make it and not to pay people to make money off of something they don't own (a bad example being the Star Trek Axanar fanfilm, a good example being the fan ST Continues series which even went as far as publicaly publishing their IRS tax returns to prove no profit was made).

What I do have a problem with is folk making money off of characters or properties that they do not own and/or have a licence for. So if a seller or company gets hit with a cease and desist for such items I have no problem with that. They brought it on themselves.


-Ralph

[Nigel]

As a business owner selling almost entirely products based on licensed properties, I don't like so-called third party products. (I say "so-called" because it is really just a fancy name that's legitimising bootlegs.) Traders of legitimate products have to compete with cheaper generic goods, and effectively have to pay for the privilege, albeit with the benefit of quality assurance, safety testing, brand recognition and so on. Non-licensed products damage and diminish a brand.

Non-licensed products are a big issue at conventions at the moment. Curiously, it seems more so at the big events, where you'd think the organisers such as Showmasters would have a strong vested interest in preventing illegal activity. There are, for instance, people printing items while you wait, with images obviously screen-grabbed or downloaded; other sellers offering prints of such images; of people selling cheap Chinese Lego bootlegs - and not necessarily labelling them as such.

A big part of the problem is public open acceptance and even willingness and desire to breach copyright, which is actually theft. It goes beyond physical products, but extends to downloading or accessing copyrighted media. Even the innocuous activity of sharing an internet meme is actually often copyright theft. Many people just aren't bothered about copyright.

[Bogatan]

There was more KO lego at LFCC than anything else. Almost every other table was just row upon row of £3 or 2 for £5 kos. Maybe they were careful to label them as just minifigures, but there was plenty of lego signage about too. Incredibly deceptive if not out right lying.

[legios]

Aug 26, 2017 14:43:15 GMT The Doctor said:

Good.

-Ralph

Indeed! I'm pleased to see Hasbro and/or Tomy take some steps to defend their property, and give that the manufacturing companies tend to hide out somewhere that makes enforcement action difficult it makes sense to go after the distribution chain.

After the way parts of fandom have been not just condoning these things but actively facilitating them then something of this nature was probably inevitable. Makes me curious as to whether there are any other C&Ds in the post to other stores, or about other illegal products.

Karl.

[legios]

Aug 29, 2017 11:14:55 GMT browny87 said:

i totally get why they are doing this although its going to be difficult for Hasbro to stop it depending on their patents

Patent law isn't relevant here - it is strictly a matter of copyright law, and in honesty there have been clear legal cases under both the Economic Rights ("you are making money from a thing that I own" and Moral Rights ('"I never said you could use my character/work in that manner, you have affronted and damaged my good name") that Hasbro and Tomy haven't pursued for a number of years now which have been very straightforward cases. I suspect that they were hoping that the issue would go away on its own, but that it has now reached na point that they feel they can't tolerate. Hence the shot across the bows of Kapow to remind them not to launder pirate gold.

Karl

[The Doctor]

I saw someone shared a post from Kapow promoting a new fake Cosmos toy. Does this seem wise after they just got hit with a cease and desist?

-Ralph

[Dezzeh]

I think that only specific products were named in the C&D, everything else is still fair game, which implies it is something hasbro are planning on releasing "soon".

[Pinwig]

Indeed. They've put up new pre-orders for 3P toys since their post on TFW (Fans Hobby Power Baser went up the other day). They did say the C&D was about two specific toys from one company. Which is either the start of something from Hasbro, or a very peculiar way of saying they're fine with everything else (if it was Hasbro who issued the C&D).

[Fortmax2020]

I will be unsurprised if Hasbro's light warning (c&d's for a couple of specific products) doesn't expand rapidly. Lessons are clearly not being taken to heart.