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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 16, 2021 9:30:06 GMT
I thought Gobots were the early rivals to Transformers. Like Betamax and VHS. They were. Then Hasbro bought out the company that made them and spent the next few years spamming the name all over Transformers to assert the trademark/stick two fingers up at the formers owners! tfwiki.net/wiki/GoBots
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 16, 2021 9:41:43 GMT
The colours used are doing most of the work here and, within the confines of the gang moulding and only tweaking one plastic colour, doing a VERY good job too! Optimus still has the yellow from Gearhead on his legs which is a little distracting. A shame they didn't tweak that to blue while they were there..... which would have a very interesting effect on the Gearhead mould - come back on Monday for more on that. Megatron's legs are likewise still blue from Motormouth. I used to think ed, silver or black might have been better but it doesn't bother me half as much now that I know about original Japanese Megatron with blue inner legs: Technically then he's more accurate to the original character then! What they demonstrate is how much the colours go to suggesting which character a toy is, and to me strengthen all the misnaming arguments I've made the last few weeks. Here's a case where the names and the colours match. But..... Red Lambo for the win *AGAIN* There's a nice extra touch in there with the blue paint app added to the head which, even though the head isn't the classic Prime sculpt, makes you think Optimus Prime. Would *LOVE* to own both of these. Nick................
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 16, 2021 10:54:13 GMT
I thought Gobots were the early rivals to Transformers. Like Betamax and VHS. They were. Then Hasbro bought out the company that made them and spent the next few years spamming the name all over Transformers to assert the trademark/stick two fingers up at the formers owners! tfwiki.net/wiki/GoBotsCharming! Way to beat down the little guy, Hasblow!
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Jim
Thunderjet
Micromaster Backside Monitor
Now in glorious Ultra HD 4K
Posts: 4,615
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Post by Jim on Jul 16, 2021 14:42:04 GMT
Megatron. Particularly for the vehicle mode, but also his robot mode legs are sexier than Ops'.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 22, 2021 6:51:49 GMT
Finishes TOMORROW!
Currently 4-3 to Megatron!!! #VoteOptimus
G2 *also* finishes tomorrow when we start Beast Wars and leave the world of years, subgroups and catalogues behind us. We're going to do things by toy range and within that size class, with the traditional faction split if there's enough toys to do it. If there's an obvious subgroup, like say the Armada Beasts, we'll group them all together.
We'll do repaints separately within the size class, so as to not put a toy up against it's repaint where possible. Sometimes it won't be possible, but trying to will keep the number of poll options reasonable.
We'll hive exclusives off where possible to their own poll or poll.
Every so often for a larger toy range we might look for an obvious split in the middle of the range. In particular the main Beast Wars series (pre Transmetal/Fuzor) was looking a bit of a monolith in terms of poll voting options and I knew it needed slicing up *SOMEHOW* but couldn't quite see how for a long while. When the solution hit me it set a pattern for following series that will serve us very well as we go on, tied in nicely with the available visual material, highlighted a clear division in the main BW line and enabled us to tell some stories about the line's development in the US, Europe and UK. And, as it turns out, there are very clear labels for the toys in each half of the split.
VERY much looking forward to doing Beast Wars! And especially looking at some of the non show toys which are favourites of mine. The main BW line should keep us occupied till late November/December, at which point Machine Wars happens. Anyone got the boxed toys and can get me pictures of the Cosells there?
Then Fuzors, Transmetals, BWII, Transmetal IIs, BW Neo, Fox Kids, Animorphs & Mutants, Car Robots, Beast Machines and RiD
For most of the future lines I will be concentrating on the western versions.
Obviously BWII, BWNeo and Robotmasters will get their own polls as they're exclusive to Japan.
Car Robots/RiD and Galaxy Force/Cybertron are both a bit interesting: they start in Japan first and then appear in the west later: for those I'm thinking do the toys in the Japanese line THEN what was added to them to form the western line.
Binaltech and Alternators look even more interesting: there's a core of toys in BOTH lines, albeit with material and deco differences. Then both lines have a number of toys unique to them. So Both lines, Binaltech then Alternators would seem to be the pattern to use there
Every so often we'll break one or more rule in order to achieve the overall goal of polling every toy. But there's a good reason behind every grouping so far
Still waiting for the arbiter of what is legal to tell me what the solution of the Optimal Optimus problem is. The one I'm intending to use will get Burns *VERY* cross! hehehe
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Post by Llama God on Jul 22, 2021 7:09:15 GMT
ILLEGAL POLL RULES! These are meant to be based on catalogues! If there are not catalogues, then you should be building a time machine to go back in time and make Hasbro put catalogues out into all the toys from Beast Wars onwards! Where's your dedication, man?! But seriously that all sounds good. You've put a lot of thought into this, so looking forward to seeing where it all goes. The main BW line should keep us occupied till late November/December, at which point Machine Wars happens. Anyone got the boxed toys and can get me pictures of the Cosells there? I've got MW Prime's box in the same room I work in, so if you've not heard from me by midday ping me on Twitter... Still waiting for the arbiter of what is legal to tell me what the solution of the Optimal Optimus problem is. The one I'm intending to use will get Burns *VERY* cross! hehehe Which, after all, is the real purpose of these polls...
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 22, 2021 9:40:18 GMT
ILLEGAL POLL RULES! These are meant to be based on catalogues! If there are not catalogues, then you should be building a time machine to go back in time and make Hasbro put catalogues out into all the toys from Beast Wars onwards! Where's your dedication, man?! Such a big slacker me, where's my dedication to the cause? But seriously that all sounds good. You've put a lot of thought into this, so looking forward to seeing where it all goes. When I started doing these I only vaguely dreamed of possibly doing G2. I never thought I'd get beyond that. Now I have all the major series mapped out through to the end of Classics. I probably ought to publish this list so you can all go "But what about Y between X and ?" The main BW line should keep us occupied till late November/December, at which point Machine Wars happens. Anyone got the boxed toys and can get me pictures of the Cosells there? I've got MW Prime's box in the same room I work in, so if you've not heard from me by midday ping me on Twitter... Will do. From recollection the only UK mainline BW toys I'm lacking Cosell pictures of are Transquito and the two combiners. Anyone got a Biocombat box with them on? After BW mainline it gets very messy with not every toy on a cosell so we may have to have a rethink again for visual aids at that point. But for the next few years you could do far far worse than to have a copy of BW Generations to hand. Burns and Andu will both back me up on how good this book is. Still waiting for the arbiter of what is legal to tell me what the solution of the Optimal Optimus problem is. The one I'm intending to use will get Burns *VERY* cross! hehehe Which, after all, is the real purpose of these polls... YMVWTT, ICPC
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 22, 2021 9:44:46 GMT
BW Generation is indeed a fine book.
Armada had catalogues!!!
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 22, 2021 10:45:47 GMT
It did, and if I can get decent scans I will use them. JaM.
But they're nowhere near complete, lots of toys are missed off
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,070
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Post by The Huff on Jul 22, 2021 11:17:07 GMT
I have handfuls of Armada/Energon/Cybertron catalogues spare if anyone wants any.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 22, 2021 19:19:07 GMT
This is your LAST opportunity to vote Optimus Prime for a little while so #VoteOptimus!
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 22, 2021 20:07:16 GMT
This is your LAST opportunity to vote Optimus Prime for a little while so #VoteOptimus! Are you voting for the name rather than the toy? Shame on you! Martin
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 22, 2021 21:48:38 GMT
I prefer the Optimus!
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 23, 2021 5:51:29 GMT
Phil locked the poll just as I was voting. Tut!
Though kind of glad, I didn't really want to break the tie. Both look good and do somehow work with the names.
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 23, 2021 5:53:38 GMT
I was going to vote Prime, purely because it was the one I was annoyed about not being able to get in 96 as at that point I had a complete set of Western Primes barring Gobot Prime.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 23, 2021 6:06:48 GMT
A tie!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 23, 2021 6:08:51 GMT
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 23, 2021 6:20:56 GMT
Voting early this time.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 23, 2021 6:43:43 GMT
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dyrl
Empty
Transforming robots are no match for combat waitresses from the future!
Posts: 1,652
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Post by dyrl on Jul 23, 2021 6:50:31 GMT
I remember this thing. I never wanted it because I just couldn't get into the leaders being on the lower end of the range. I was far happier with the ultra class toys, especially for Primal. Ah Beast Wars...how wonderful that entire line was.
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Post by Llama God on Jul 23, 2021 7:30:08 GMT
BEAST WARS! I first discovered this line when I was working late one night at university n 1997, which was also the first time that I'd had any sort of access to t'Interwebs. I'd also discovered a lot of the G2 toys as well, and Machine Wars, and these just seemed... odd. In a sort of, "what are they even doing?!" kind of way - aside from it being the '90s. I wasn't impressed at first, until later that year (or early the next) they turned up in Woolworths, and I noticed that the toys didn't actually look that bad...
I eventually picked this set up, although not until the early 2010s. Not having that much disposable income at the time I only picked up a couple of toys whilst they were actually on shelves, but I wanted these for completeness.
So... which one is best? I'm tempted to vote for the Optimus, just because he's an Optimus. But Megatron is a very cool sculpt with a very expressive face. But Primal is slightly more poseable and has swords, and is also a bat, so yeah, he wins. Sorry for being predictable.
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Post by Llama God on Jul 23, 2021 7:31:53 GMT
I probably ought to publish this list so you can all go "But what about Y between X and ?" Nah, I like the surprise. ;-) I've got MW Prime's box in the same room I work in, so if you've not heard from me by midday ping me on Twitter... Will do. You didn't! And neither did I! Will try again today.
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 23, 2021 9:24:50 GMT
A SILENT SHADOW RISES.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 23, 2021 9:59:43 GMT
This is an interesting set for many reasons The idea of a VS pack was new in the west but had been done a few times in Japan and would be done MANY times during Beast Wars. Japan also sold these toys separately as C-6 Convobat and D-6 Megalligator as well as VS-6 Showdown at the Amazon: Convobat VS Megalligator - so effectively this poll serves as a "Who would win VS-6?" poll as well (and indeed VS-1 & VS-2 will also be covered by these early BW Polls) The forms chosen here are interesting too, not least because they're immediately abandoned for the Ultra versions which then stick somewhat. They follow the basic Beast Wars division of warm blooded Mammal/Bird Maximals and cold blooded Liard/Dinosaur/Insect Predacons. No complaints about Megatron by himself, an alligator suits an evil character and he's green just like Megatron's G2 form. Optimus is somewhat odder. Bats do have an evil vampire connection, and indeed ALL the previous Transformers Bats have been Decepticons, so to see the leader of your heroes as a bat doesn't sit comfortably. The main grey colour feels off for Optimus although the paint does hint at previous Primes. As a toy it feels a bit more primitive than some of the other flipchangers with it's mechanisms very exposed and they are mechanisms that can easily lead to gear teeth slipping. Fortunately it is quite easy to push back on the frame that controls the body's TF, releasing the shoulders so you can reset them: I've done this to my own toy several times and can remember sitting in Birmingham adjusting a ToyFu donation for Nick. His most major contribution though is providing Op with twin swords, a feature carried forward to the Ultra. The pairing of the two forms feels a bit odd: you look at them and think "that's two Decepticon Headmasters, where's Weirdwolf?" and it's perhaps slightly odd that these were never repainted as such somewhere. Repaints are thin on the ground at this end of Beast Wars: Both appear in a Japanese exclusive vs pack as a red Convoy Bat and Purple Megatron alligator. Primal becomes the exclusive Onyx Primal. Megatron was scheduled to be used as the exclusive Albitron - see tfwiki.net/wiki/Albitron#Toys - but that was cancelled, which is a shame as a white Megatron in contrast with a black Primal would have been nice. Megatron *IS* remoulded as BW basic Iguanus - were there plans to remould Primal in the main line too at one stage? Did they get cancelled, accounting for the 7 basic Maximals vs 8 basic Predacons? Iguanus is in turn repainted as Craybolt in BW Neo. I think Megatron gets my vote here: better toy whose form an colours say Megatron to me more than Primal says Optimus Prime, which he was still meant to be at this stage in the game.
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 23, 2021 15:23:03 GMT
I voted Primal because its the better toy, I had more fun playing with it than megatron. I do like Megatron, and I do like green, but this is a pretty drab green and lacks other colours to break it up. Its a little thing but it would have been nice if there was a peg hole on the arm so the weapon could fit like a fusion cannon.
It is unusual that Megatron got a heavy remould. Did Hasbro remould any other Beast Wars toy in this way? I cant think of any. It was a couple of years before Takara started doing it even.
Interesting as well that BW Megatron get a green and a purple release in the first wave. Just as he got in G2.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 23, 2021 15:37:25 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 23, 2021 22:13:42 GMT
I once bought this set sealed on Ebay for a bargain. Alas, the seller suffered a catastrophic flood so it was destroyed. Never had a second chance at getting a set!
The pack-in comic is FAB.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 28, 2021 8:34:51 GMT
Repaints are thin on the ground at this end of Beast Wars: Both appear in a Japanese exclusive vs pack as a red Convoy Bat and Purple Megatron alligator. Primal becomes the exclusive Onyx Primal. Megatron was scheduled to be used as the exclusive Albitron - see tfwiki.net/wiki/Albitron#Toys - but that was cancelled, which is a shame as a white Megatron in contrast with a black Primal would have been nice. Megatron *IS* remoulded as BW basic Iguanus - were there plans to remould Primal in the main line too at one stage? Did they get cancelled, accounting for the 7 basic Maximals vs 8 basic Predacons? Iguanus is in turn repainted as Craybolt in BW Neo.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 29, 2021 9:38:29 GMT
Finishes TOMORROW when we'll start work on the single carded BW basics!
When I was thinking about BW I was very much aware of the size of the number of figures in each size class, especially for the carded figures, and looked for some way of splitting them up. Turns out there's a relatively obvious solution on the lines of functionality (roughly - there's one outlier in each carded size class) which will help tell the story of "How Hasbro UK tried their very best to balls up Beast Wars"
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 29, 2021 21:11:25 GMT
Crocodile beats bat in my opinion.
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