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Post by The Doctor on Jun 28, 2018 22:15:04 GMT
I must again remind Phil that this was the era before the fixed idea of character names/colours became a thing. Other posters/lurkers may cross off the appropriate square in today's game of Hub Bingo. -Ralph |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 28, 2018 23:12:19 GMT
Phil plays the "ah yes, but Mirage was later redone in the correct colours" card!
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Post by Toph on Jun 29, 2018 4:18:21 GMT
I must again remind Phil that this was the era before the fixed idea of character names/colours became a thing. Other posters/lurkers may cross off the appropriate square in today's game of Hub Bingo. -Ralph To be fair on two points: • Phil never said anything about the wrecker in G1 Hoist colors as being a G2 toy. Just that it bugged him that in the history of the mold, it never happened like Mirage did. • The cancelled lasercycle Soundwave was blue, and Jazz was white. Gobot Optimus was red, and Megatron was silver. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jun 29, 2018 7:59:22 GMT
I counter with Gobot Soundwave.  |
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Post by Toph on Jun 29, 2018 8:45:15 GMT
Yeah, I actually have a theory about that, too.
I think there are three forces at play here.
1) This toy is intended to be this legacy character, as such, it has a deco that evokes said character.
• Gobot Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, and Megatron
• Hero Optimus Prime and Megatron (yeah, Megs is purple instead of green, but aside from that it's undeniable it's deco is based on the earlier green tank)
• Cancelled Lasercycle Jazz and Soundwave (may or may not be this, or...)
2) This toy deco has similar colors to a legacy character, so let's recycle the name on it.
• Cyberjet Airraid
• Cancelled Lasercycle Jazz and Soundwave (may or may not be)
• Gobot Frenzy, I believe is an example of this
3) Let's just use this popular legacy character's name to generate more interest in this redeco.
• Cancelled Autoroller General Optimus and Srg. Hound
• ATB Megatron and Starscream
• Cyberjet Jetfire and Strafe
• Gobots Mirage, Soundwave, Ironhide, Sideswipe
Edit: Gobots Frenzy and Sideswipe actually may have been name or color swapped, now that I think about it.
SIDESWIPE IS RED, FRENZY IS BLUE
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Post by Toph on Jun 29, 2018 8:50:42 GMT
I spend way too much time puzzling out the thought process of G2.
But like... I'm convinced there really is an internal logic behind the decisions they made. Because if you really think about it, in context with the time period, and ignore fan misconceptions, it really does start to make sense.
Most of the "weird" G2 decisions make more sense than whatever acid trip they went on to design the glorious Actionmaster Thundercracker, the king of my collection
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 29, 2018 10:30:18 GMT
Yeah, I actually have a theory about that, too. I think there are three forces at play here. FOUR Forces. We intended to do X but between us and the factory something went wrong and it ended up as Y. Which covers Edit: Gobots Frenzy and Sideswipe actually and a multitude of other sins in G2, Cyberjets especially! |
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Post by Toph on Jun 29, 2018 10:44:45 GMT
That's hardly unique to G2 though. That seems to effect every era except Beast Wars. (We don't have any fish running around named Armordillo)
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 27, 2021 9:31:55 GMT
Anyone seen these Flipchanger Megatron pics before? www.transformertoys.co.uk/resources/review/machine+wars/megatron/3358I'm familiar with the mould but haven't seen those colours on it before. Is it a G2 prototype or one for a later release - the canopy colour matches BWII Thrust Although I've not seen the colours on the Flipchanger before they're not dissimilar to those on the unreleased G2 Jet Autoroller I know it's generally thought the Flipchangers were cancelled G2 and the missing link between G2 and the BW Fliphangers but I wasn't aware of any proof. |
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Post by Toph on Apr 27, 2021 15:45:17 GMT
That's a toughy, because that could be a test run from practically any era up to when FP announced it was unusable for Terrorsaur in 2006.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 27, 2021 16:19:16 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 15, 2021 16:01:47 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 15, 2021 16:21:07 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 15, 2021 17:35:47 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 15, 2021 17:54:54 GMT
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Post by Toph on May 15, 2021 18:03:14 GMT
Huh. If all four are a complete set, then I wonder why only the jets were used in BWII, and only the cars in CR?
And I wonder how FP got away with only using the Thundercracker mold in DoFP? Because that was when Takara was supposedly being ginormously shitty about doing toys for botcon/club stuff. (At least according to known liars Pete and whatsisname who owned FP)
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 15, 2021 18:16:01 GMT
They'd have gated the moulds or recycled the spare plastic.
See also Nightracer, Universe Ironhide, Timelines Ricochet, Timelines Waspinator
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Post by Toph on May 15, 2021 18:45:45 GMT
Universe Ironhide is gangmolded?
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 15, 2021 19:22:53 GMT
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Post by Toph on May 15, 2021 20:10:58 GMT
Oh! That Universe Ironhide!
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Post by Llama God on May 16, 2021 8:20:13 GMT
Ah, I do love some Machine Wars facts. And one day maybe we'll learn the actual truth as to "why". But I also kind of hope we don't...
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 16, 2021 17:17:39 GMT
I'm finding this picture interesting. The Hoist isn't that far removed from the Machine Wars version, just the clear plastic and grey plastic changed. Machine Wars Hoist Even more interesting is the Thundercracker - I'll assume it's that name thanks to the colour. Bar the paint on the head, that IS Beast Wars II Dirge. Beast Wars II Dirge Megatron we've seen before. A bit mad but it works. Which leaves the Mirage..... PURE G2 Juice. Oh yeah. I am wondering about the Hoist though - is it Hoist or perhaps Optimus Prime? Are any of the Photoshoppers in the house able to do a shop on decent pictures of Hoist in both modes? The main colour to Hoist's dark green, the waist, upper arms & tow hook to orange and something appropriate for the windows..... |
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Post by The Doctor on May 16, 2021 21:09:22 GMT
Wait. Wait. Wait.
How on Earth do you conclude that Hoist is Optimus Prime??
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 16, 2021 21:30:59 GMT
A couple of points:
1) I've seen it KO'd in Op colours and it works
2) There's a Megatron on the opposite side
Hoist is the most likely choice but there's a little nagging doubt there for me
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Post by Toph on May 17, 2021 0:25:43 GMT
If you're trying to figure out G2, then Hoist is unlikely. It's too straight forward, and doesn't conform with the internal logic of G2.
Even if they have their heads, there's little guarentee that Megatron and Mirage would have ended up as Megatron and Mirage.
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 17, 2021 6:31:23 GMT
By 1995 G2 is very much playing off the G1 characters (Op, Megatron, Starscream, Gobot, Cyberjet, Laser Cycle & Autoroller repaints)
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Post by Toph on May 17, 2021 7:39:55 GMT
Yeah, but those are all still very much just name reuses that are completely divorced from the mold or deco. And half of those are just trademarks and have zero relationship to the original namebarer (jetfire, dreadwing, smokescreen, and others. And many others like Ironhide had no intended connections until TFWiki said so)
In all of G2, the only released molds that were intentionally designed to represent preexisting characters were the normal and hero Megatron, and Laser Rod and hero Optimus molds.
There's the flipchanger Megatron and Mirage who were both obviously designed to be Megatron and Mirage, but nothing about G2 ensures that's who they would end up being. The tow truck wasn't model;ed on anyone in particular, and it may easily have ended up as a Decepticon.
For the record, going by trends, my speculation is they would have all been used twice.
And Megatron, Optimus, and Starscream would have been applied to them at some point.
But G2 set no precedent that shows with certainty this is what would have happened.
I mean if Soundwave was about to turn up as a motorcycle, and hound was set to be a piece of construction equipment, then the lime green racer could easily have been Inferno, and the dark wrecker Cliffjumper.
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Post by The Doctor on May 17, 2021 9:20:03 GMT
A couple of points: 1) I've seen it KO'd in Op colours and it works 2) There's a Megatron on the opposite side Hoist is the most likely choice but there's a little nagging doubt there for me You really have got the tinfoil hat on this time! 1: A KO of anything in no way "proves" the original was meant to be done that way. 2: Megatron does not imply Optimus Prime. -Ralph |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 16, 2021 17:48:12 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Oct 19, 2022 22:19:11 GMT
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