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Post by The Doctor on Nov 16, 2019 14:24:05 GMT
Takei has been fairly consistent as to his views on Shatner. He's never been negative about any other cast members.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 16, 2019 14:46:47 GMT
Tasha Yars funeral is just weird. Imagine if any of the rest of the crew had turned up and not been told how great they were by her.
And some of the comments are a stretch in the less than a year together Im not sure Yar and Crusher have had a single conversation.
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Post by Toph on Nov 16, 2019 19:35:34 GMT
I do wonder how Yar would have evolved had Crosby not left.
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Post by Shockprowl on Nov 16, 2019 19:41:00 GMT
I was utterly dismayed by Yar's death back in the day. It was out of the blue, and... meaningless.
And yes I wonder how she would have evolved as a character.
What would they have done with Worf though? He made a good Security Chief.
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 16, 2019 20:05:34 GMT
I was thinking about that too. And not just her. Worf benefits a lot from her absence. Would he have gotten as much attention or would Yars backstory have been delved in to beyond the one episode with her sister?
Beyond that I wonder if her leaving didnt have other knock ons. They never replaced her so did that leave space for the first proper reoccuring characters to develope. I was suprised how completely blank O'Brien is in season 1. Did he even get a name? And Giunan was brought in too. O'Brien may never have been developed and did they use Crosbys salary to covers Whoopis appearances?
And maybe it would have had knock on affects for DS9. If O'Brien hadnt been developed as much he might not have been seen as worth putting in DS9. Maybe Worf would have been switched instead. And that would have almost certainly changed DS9s make up. If the producers had seen him as the security chief then Odo may not have happened so no Changlings and maybe no Dominion. Or potentially he'd have taken Siskos role with Alexander taking Jakes. I can actually see that. Dax would have been besties with his Dad or Grandad from Undiscovered Country.
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Post by Shockprowl on Nov 16, 2019 21:18:31 GMT
Superb ideas!
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 16, 2019 23:03:32 GMT
The character that was almost dropped in S1 was Troi and she was absent from 4 episodes while this was pondered. Ultimately, it came down to Yar being dropped instead as Crosby asked to leave.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Nov 17, 2019 9:47:01 GMT
Wow. But if they dropped Troi, who would've sat in the third middle seat?
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Post by Pinwig on Nov 17, 2019 10:10:14 GMT
It could have been you, Shockers.
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 17, 2019 10:58:58 GMT
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 17, 2019 11:22:19 GMT
Wow. But if they dropped Troi, who would've sat in the third middle seat? Counselor Worf.
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Post by Toph on Nov 17, 2019 12:24:16 GMT
I was thinking about that too. And not just her. Worf benefits a lot from her absence. Would he have gotten as much attention or would Yars backstory have been delved in to beyond the one episode with her sister? Beyond that I wonder if her leaving didnt have other knock ons. They never replaced her so did that leave space for the first proper reoccuring characters to develope. I was suprised how completely blank O'Brien is in season 1. Did he even get a name? And Giunan was brought in too. O'Brien may never have been developed and did they use Crosbys salary to covers Whoopis appearances? And maybe it would have had knock on affects for DS9. If O'Brien hadnt been developed as much he might not have been seen as worth putting in DS9. Maybe Worf would have been switched instead. And that would have almost certainly changed DS9s make up. If the producers had seen him as the security chief then Odo may not have happened so no Changlings and maybe no Dominion. Or potentially he'd have taken Siskos role with Alexander taking Jakes. I can actually see that. Dax would have been besties with his Dad or Grandad from Undiscovered Country. Whoopi wanted to be in Trek so badly I think she just about would have done it for free. They designed Guinan for her, to be a relatively non-involved character that's easy for her to walk on and do, while doing her other projects. So I think, Crosby or not, she would have happened. I think Worf's development would probably have been relatively unaffected, too. Most of his development revolved around Being Klingon© and I don't see Yar effecting that, much. What else he could have done on the bridge is a mystery though, because until Crosby left, they didn't really know what to do with him. I didn't know they were considering dumping Troi, but I can see that. They never did really figure out what to do with her when she wasn't giving Picard advice. I think the biggest changes from Yar's presence would be no Troi, and Data's development. And extending beyond TNG, I think Gargoyles would be hardest hit, as it becomes far less likely Sirtis would have been cast to voice Demona.
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 18, 2019 16:42:37 GMT
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 18, 2019 17:46:44 GMT
Yup. As I rewatch the first few seasons of TNG I keep seeing faces I recognise but cant place. After a quick visit to IMDB I realise its because they're 10, 20 or 30 years younger than from whatever I know them from. I even spotted an even younger than in Twin Peaks Madchen Amick which completely threw me for some reason.
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Jim
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Post by Jim on Nov 19, 2019 22:51:35 GMT
On my recent TNG rewatch I felt that Yar didn't make much of an impact as a character and that Crosby was not a great actor, so to me it feels like they made the right call (though that could be confirmation bias).
Even though the episode itself is really not great, there's something I like in her getting "meaninglessly" offed. It felt more realistic that a crew member could just die like that, no big heroic self sacrifice, and it made the reactions of the rest of the crew more believable. The sudden fatal attack followed by the medical-drama rush and then the realisation she's gone - that stuff worked! Everything else about that episode though - ugh
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Post by blueshift on Nov 19, 2019 22:52:56 GMT
I really liked Tasha Yar as a kid
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Post by Toph on Nov 19, 2019 23:48:21 GMT
When they killed Yar, I think a lot of that is applicable to just about every character. None of them by that point were terribly deep.
We only look back on the rest and feel like they would have been a great loss because we know them as what they become, and can see the potential that would have been snuffed out.
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Jim
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Post by Jim on Nov 20, 2019 10:18:35 GMT
That is true!
Rewatching the show now though what struck me about Yar was that she didn't have much of a "hook". She had a backstory where the others had at least one character trait.
TNG rarely served its women characters well, so on the one hand it's a shame they killed off one who could potentially have been strong, but on the other they'd probably have failed!
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 20, 2019 20:24:58 GMT
I think her hook was supposed to be that the crew were the family that she had never had before. But they never got around to developing it. She was also the example of human society gone wrong.
Which might explain why they never developed her much. With Roddenberrys "humanity is perfect and must always be seen as perfect in the 24th century rules" I imagine it was a nightmare trying to tell a Tasha story that delved in to that area. Seems telling that they finally dig in to her backstory early in season 4, right after Roddenberry stops being involved in the show.
Shes great in Yesterdays Enterprise.
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Post by Toph on Nov 20, 2019 20:40:23 GMT
It really is messed up that her colony can exist in such a state. It makes the federation/starfleet look really bad.
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 20, 2019 20:40:36 GMT
There's nowt more mysterious about the characterisation (or lack thereof) of the cast in earlier seasons other than the behind the scenes revolving door of producers/writers/showrunners. It's not until that calms down that the show and characters 'settle'.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 20, 2019 20:42:27 GMT
I think her hook was supposed to be that the crew were the family that she had never had before. But they never got around to developing it. She was also the example of human society gone wrong. Which might explain why they never developed her much. With Roddenberrys "humanity is perfect and must always be seen as perfect in the 24th century rules" I imagine it was a nightmare trying to tell a Tasha story that delved in to that area. Seems telling that they finally dig in to her backstory early in season 4, right after Roddenberry stops being involved in the show. Shes great in Yesterdays Enterprise. Roddenberry's involvement scaled back during and after season 1. He was still consulted and gave his opinions but he did not have creative control. His last big contribution was the Ferengi. -Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 20, 2019 20:50:40 GMT
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 20, 2019 20:53:14 GMT
Scaled back but still present till the end of season 3. From the tng bluray extras it seems he was still involved enough to shut down a lot of script ideas.
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 21, 2019 19:16:27 GMT
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 23, 2019 12:14:46 GMT
Watching Disaster. Nurse Worf is amazing.
"Good! You bore that well."
is one of my favourite lines.
Worfs always value for money, but Im increasingly convinced TNG would have been even better if he'd been given any other job but head of security.
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Post by Toph on Nov 23, 2019 14:24:42 GMT
After that episode, they really should have found a reason to put him having to follow Beverly for a week.
Like that Security Personnel need to learn how to perform as triage or trauma nurses in emergencies (since they're usually the first in disaster areas?)
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 26, 2019 22:35:11 GMT
Ive decided to watch the TNG era in something like stardate order which I assume will be roughly in US Broadcast order. This will be a pain in the arse, but I honestly cant face the thought of plowing through seven seasons of Voyager uninterupted.
Anyway having finished Chain of Command Im on to Emmisary. Yay.
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Post by Bogatan on Nov 27, 2019 21:56:18 GMT
Yes! Ive found a list of Trek episodes in Stardate order.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 27, 2019 21:57:59 GMT
Yes! Ive found a list of Trek episodes in Stardate order. Does it make sense, or do you get silly things like Tasha Yar dying and then appearing in subsequent episodes? Martin
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