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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 19, 2016 20:22:42 GMT
Anyone got a 2017 diary? Is week 1 2017 one day long or does it start Monday 2nd? I've got a week-to-view diary for my Dad. The weeks aren't numbered but they all begin on Sunday and end on Saturday. Martin |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 19, 2016 20:25:01 GMT
This may not be the most helpful thing you've ever said Martin.....
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Post by legios on Dec 19, 2016 20:29:33 GMT
But in fairness, the accuracy of the statement is exemplary. :-)
Can't shed any light myself. Neither I nor the 2017 calendar I have really number the weeks...
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 19, 2016 20:36:13 GMT
This may not be the most helpful thing you've ever said Martin..... Sorry, but you asked! When do you want (a) your comics back, and (b) a pizza? It could of course be some Saturday in 2017, but I also currently have no plans for 28, 29, 30, 31 Dec. and 2, 3 Jan. before I go back in to work. Martin |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 19, 2016 20:42:26 GMT
The year 2012 began on a Sunday. My month-to-view diary from that year had week 1 begin on 2 Jan.
Martin
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 19, 2016 20:52:28 GMT
Anyone got a 2017 diary? Is week 1 2017 one day long or does it start Monday 2nd? Uh-oh... |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 19, 2016 21:42:22 GMT
Christmas is not until Sunday!! This is the week Christmas falls in, live with it Scrooge! But while we're on the subject...... Anyone got a 2017 diary? Is week 1 2017 one day long or does it start Monday 2nd? Oh no, not this again. -Ralph |
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Post by Benn on Dec 19, 2016 21:58:47 GMT
I will not have a week that is only one day long.
Madness lies down that path.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 20, 2016 0:43:55 GMT
Just seeking clarity before the event. If I get it wrong you'll roast me....
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 20, 2016 0:56:50 GMT
Week 2 must begin on Mon 2nd or New Year's Day does not exist.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 20, 2016 1:04:56 GMT
New Year's Day is 2017 Week 0 surely?
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 20, 2016 1:09:45 GMT
How can something of nothing exist? Talk sense man! NYD is in the first week within 2017 regardless of the length of that week.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 20, 2016 7:07:37 GMT
How can something of nothing exist? Talk sense man! NYD is in the first week within 2017 regardless of the length of that week. Let's consult the Oxford English Dictionary: ___ week /0wi:k/ noun. OE. [ORIGIN Old English wice, wicu, corresp. to Old Frisian wike, Old Saxon -wika in crūcewika Holy Week (Dutch week), Old High German wehha, wohha (German Woche), Old Norse vika, Gothic wikō (translating Greek taxis order), from Germanic noun prob. meaning ‘series, succession’ and rel. to Latin vic-: see vice preposition, vice-.] 1 The cycle of seven successive days recognized in the Jewish calendar and from there adopted in the calendars of Christian, Muslim, and various other peoples; a single period of this cycle, beginning with the day traditionally fixed as the first day of the week (now usu. reckoned from and to midnight on Saturday–Sunday). OE. ▸ b With specifying word: a particular week of the year, the whole or part of which is assigned to a specific event, purpose, cause, action, or observance; the date of a specific festival etc. OE. M. Dorris She…listens to the radio every week instead of going to…church. Independent Heads of foreign missions plan to meet next week. (b) Police Chief The ceremony…took place during National Police Week. (b) Easter Week, Ember Week, Holy Week, etc. 2 ▸ a A period of seven days, reckoned from any point. Freq. in a week today, a week yesterday, a week Saturday, etc. OE. ▸ b Seven days as a term for periodical payments of wages, rent, etc., or as a unit of reckoning for time of work or service. LME. ▸ c An indefinite time; in pl., a long indefinite period of time. LME. (a) Beverley Cleary A week's collection of dirty socks…under her bed. P. Barker I believe he volunteered…The first week of the war. (b) J. Hersey Fired him. After thirty-four years, they gave him two weeks' notice. (c) C. Brayfield Why not…think about it for a week or two? Reader's Digest None of our children came over to see us for weeks. 3 The period of time spent at work, formerly the six days between Sundays and now usu. the five days from Monday to Friday, excluding the weekend. Also, an amount of work done during this period. OE. Architects' Journal Generous benefits including…a 35-hour week with flexitime. 4 With specifying word, as Monday, tomorrow, yesterday, etc.: seven days before or after the day mentioned. LME. E. O'Brien He would be drawing the dole by the following Monday week. Phrases: a week every week, weekly, per week. †be in by the week be ensnared or caught; fig. be deeply in love. day of the week each of the seven days constituting a week, as Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc. Feast of Weeks = Pentecost 1. knock into the middle of next week: see knock verb. the other week: see other adjective. three day week: see three noun. today week. too late a week joc. far too late (now chiefly with allus. to Shakes. A.Y.L.). week and week about in alternate weeks. week in, week out: see in adverb. week of Sundays an indefinitely long period (cf. month of Sundays). Comb.: weeklong adjective & adverb (lasting) for a whole week; weeknight a night in the week other than at the weekend or (formerly) other than Sunday night; weeknightly adverb (US) occurring every weeknight; week-to-week adjective continuing or recurring in successive weeks; continual; week-work Law (now hist.) work done for a lord by a tenant for a certain number of days a week. ___ I don't see any provision there for a week that lasts only one day. That would be a... day. The logical answer would be to say that the very first period of a week in any given year is the first seven days of the year, whatever day it begins, but the first full week beginning on a Monday or Sunday is the first full week beginning on a Monday or Sunday. You just have to define what it is you're trying to count. Martin |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 20, 2016 8:11:57 GMT
NYD is in a separate week to the first *complete* week of the successive year. However it is still in the first week of 2017. It just happens to share some of its days with 2016. Does 2016 have 52 or 53 weeks is a related question.
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Post by Benn on Dec 20, 2016 8:38:52 GMT
...yes... This sort of makes makes sense.
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Post by Benn on Dec 20, 2016 8:39:20 GMT
Apart from the fact that I have now read the word 'week' so many times that it has lost all meaning.
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 20, 2016 9:04:18 GMT
How is this happening again?! we did all this last year!
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 20, 2016 9:12:34 GMT
It's a white hole.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 20, 2016 9:32:20 GMT
We do it every year to get it right as the criteria seems to change every year!
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 20, 2016 9:35:25 GMT
It's a white hole.
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Post by legios on Dec 20, 2016 9:50:37 GMT
NYD is in a separate week to the first *complete* week of the successive year. However it is still in the first week of 2017. It just happens to share some of its days with 2016. Does 2016 have 52 or 53 weeks is a related question. Very roughly (based on a year being 364.25 days, so a fairly high level abstraction) each year consists of 52.0357 weeks (i.e, 52 full weeks of 7 days and one partial week of 2.499 days). Not a neat round number I admit, but a side effect of taking a concept designed for one calendar and translating it to another (which is then amended in its turn) which contains different demarcations and a different number of sunrises and sunsets in each cyclical period. In short, all years contain 52 full weeks and one partial week. The debate to me appears to be about whether the partial week is to be counted as the 53rd week of one year, or the first week of the next. I have no real dog in this fight to be honest. As long as I get my proper allotment of days in the year then it is much the same to me which end of it we put the remainder. Karl |
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 20, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
I have no real dog in this fight to be honest. As long as I get my proper allotment of days in the year then it is much the same to me which end of it we put the remainder. Legios for President. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 20, 2016 10:04:26 GMT
Karl may not be ideal Actuary material....
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 20, 2016 10:25:09 GMT
I'd believe anything he says. I've looked at last year's multiple week one threads and isolated the concluding argument which meant week two became week one again: Phil, I have news for you. I have started using my new 2016 diary for work now. It clearly states that the week beginning Jan 4th is Week 1. A photo of proof can be supplied if need be. This is not week 2. My Rymans diary says it is week 1. -Ralph Therefore Jan 1st 2017 is the tail end of 2016 Week 52 and Jan 2nd is the beginning of 2017 Week 1. This website seems to think the rule is that the first week of a year is the first week with Jan 4th or a Tuesday in it: week-number.net/calendar-with-week-numbers-2017.htmlWhich is agreed with by any other week dating website you go to. I've been looking. Because I'm supposed to be marking and this is more fun. |
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 20, 2016 10:31:51 GMT
Oh my god! There are complexities beyond complexities with this! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_week_date#First_week
First weekThe ISO 8601 definition for week 01 is the week with the year's first Thursday in it. The following definitions based on properties of this week are mutually equivalent, since the ISO week starts with Monday: - It is the first week with a majority (4 or more) of its days in January.
- Its first day is the Monday nearest to 1 January.
- It has 4 January in it. Hence the earliest possible first week extends from Monday 29 December (previous gregorian year) to Sunday 4 January, the latest possible first week extends from Monday 4 January to Sunday 10 January.
- It has the year's first working day in it, if Saturdays, Sundays and 1 January are not working days.
- If 1 January is on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, it is in week 01. If 1 January is on a Friday, it is part of week 53 of the previous year; if on a Saturday, it is part of week 52 (or 53 if the previous year was a leap year); if on a Sunday, it is part of week 52 of the previous year.
The bottom bullet I think is a summary that will work in all cases. |
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 20, 2016 10:34:46 GMT
This is fascinating. My head is spinning. I am comforted to find there is an ISO standard for working this out. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Week_datesThere are several mutually equivalent and compatible descriptions of week 01: - the week with the year's first Thursday in it (the formal ISO definition),
- the week with 4 January in it,
- the first week with the majority (four or more) of its days in the starting year, and
- the week starting with the Monday in the period 29 December – 4 January.
As a consequence, if 1 January is on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, it is in week 01. If 1 January is on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, it is in week 52 or 53 of the previous year (there is no week 00). 28 December is always in the last week of its year. |
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 20, 2016 10:35:02 GMT
THERE IS NO WEEK 00.
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Post by legios on Dec 20, 2016 11:32:29 GMT
Karl may not be ideal Actuary material.... In fairness, not a role I would see myself as fitted to myself. I prefer my numbers more in the form of ones and zeros most of the time :-) I just thought I might provide and alternative take on the (endless?) debate... I see time as...somewhat fluid at the moment myself... Karl |
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Post by Benn on Dec 20, 2016 11:33:15 GMT
This rabbit hole went deeper than I ever thought possible!
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 20, 2016 11:36:39 GMT
Indeed. But there is a light at the end of the... hole. We now have a cast iron rule to apply in any year, which we know will work because it's the ISO Standard!
Consistency is Victory.
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