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Post by grahamthomson on Aug 14, 2008 13:33:26 GMT
I don't know if anyone remembers an old Transformers comic story called "On the Edge of Extinction", but in it Unicron attacks Cybertron and brings the Transformers race to, well, the edge of extinction. But during the battle a superhuman known as Circuit Breaker attacks Unicron with electricity and causes him considerable pain.
With that in mind, which Transformers (many of whom presumably more powerful than a scantily clad electro bitch) could have a decent crack at taking down Unicron?
Shrapnel, another master of electricity, could probably have had the same effect on the Chaos Bringer. Possibly Silverbolt, to a lesser extent since his powers depend on the weather, as well.
Windcharger, with his powerful magnetic abilities, I am sure could have inflicted considerable damage to Unicron as well.
Any others?
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Aug 14, 2008 14:29:28 GMT
Galvatron built a massive solar-cannon that we were told could destroy Unicron - Transformer WMDs can thus smack him up.
I also imagine Megatron, wielding anti-matter, could've done considerable damage.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 14, 2008 14:42:57 GMT
Longtooth could have irritated him to death with pointless angst.
-Ralph
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Aug 14, 2008 15:49:32 GMT
Cliffjumper could have used his glass-gas gun, turning his metal as brittle as glass!
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Aug 14, 2008 16:06:22 GMT
And since Unicron has no organic bits, Underbase-powered Starscream would've been able to kill him.
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Post by jameso on Aug 14, 2008 18:12:46 GMT
Mindwipe might have been able to hypnotize him, except he did show considerable mental abilities when enslaving the Junkions.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 14, 2008 19:52:11 GMT
A sceptics' rebuttal:
Shrapnel/Silverbolt - no, they couldn't store/generate/channel enough electricity to hurt him. But nor could Circuit-Breaker if Furman hadn't re-written the rules on a whim a changed her ability from "store and release a certain amount of electricity" to "she's called Circuit-Breaker, so she can break circuits, scale irrelevant".
Windcharger - nah, again, his powers are limited by scale. He could clamp himself magnetically to Unicron but that's bout it.
Galvatron - why should we think the weapon he built in T: 2006 is any better than the ones the TFs had on Cybertron?
Cliffjumper - couldn't generate enough glass-gas. The most he could do is make a little bit of him as brittle as glass.
Mindwipe - nah. Bombshell failed to control Optimus with his cerebro-shell, the Neo-Knight Rapture failed on Unicron. No reason to believe Mindwipe could do any better. He couldn't even control Highbrow and Gort at the same time.
Underbase-powered Starscream / Megatron's antimatter - possibly. Megatron's store of antimatter is infinite as he draws it from a black hole. But would it kill Unicron before it killed him?
My nomination would be the Scraplets. Their power is infinite, as they turn the metal they eat into more of themselves.
Martin
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Post by legios on Aug 14, 2008 20:08:56 GMT
A sceptics' rebuttal: Underbase-powered Starscream / Megatron's antimatter - possibly. Megatron's store of antimatter is infinite as he draws it from a black hole. But would it kill Unicron before it killed him? Yeah, that's the thing - there are plenty of folk who could steadily and systematically destroy Unicron. But where are you going to get the time to do it? A single Autobot is a single target, and Unicron appears to have a nice mix of precision and overwhelming force with which to respond. You either have to be almost impossible for him to kill, or to be able to generate enormous amounts of damage in a very short space of time. Owch, you have a point there. Difficult to eradicate - like germs and with a demonstrated ability to replicate at a horrendous rate. You could use them like weaponised "grey goo". Now this is a thought that is going to trouble me. I'm inclined to say that if you can get the advantage of the right combination of time and surprise any Autobot armed with the Ark might be in with an outside chance. Accelerate her up to a good proportion of the speed of light and slam it into Unicron whilst he is otherwise occupied. (No, I'm not sure how you would arrange the right set of circumstances either. It is more in the class of a thought experiment than an actual viable plan). Karl |
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 14, 2008 21:03:37 GMT
I see Martin did not rebutt my Longtooth suggestion, thus supporting my theory. Longtooth is the WMD that could take out Uniiiiiiiiicronnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
-Ralph
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Aug 14, 2008 21:23:38 GMT
Shrapnel/Silverbolt - no, they couldn't store/generate/channel enough electricity to hurt him. But nor could Circuit-Breaker if Furman hadn't re-written the rules on a whim a changed her ability We could claim she was channelling the electricity from Cybertron (or bits of it)... Unicron went out of his way to have the cannon destroyed. If he didn't think it could harm him, why bother? Galvatron's coming back anyway, and you can humiliate him by having him watch his weapon fail before torturing him. Unicron himself refers to this as a plot to destroy him, and he'd surely go "ahahaha such weapons can't harm me!" if they can't. Cybertron itself probably didn't have weapons specifically designed to cripple malevolent robot planets - poor buggers didn't get any time to prep for the attack! (Armada #18 has that in its favour, that Unicron is the one caught out for once) He could make lots of glass-gas in advance, at least enough to breach Unicron's hull and do internal damage. Good point, he'd need to use a lot of anti-matter in a key place (Unicron's face, say). The Underbase, however, should work near-instantly as it does with everything else - and let's remember The Magnificent Six, where Optimus outright decides they'll use the Underbase to kill Unicron in place of the Matrix. Also a good 'un. And a GI Joe crossover had Unicron taken out by metal-eating fungi, a similar tactic... |
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Aug 14, 2008 21:25:51 GMT
Waspinator - he can't kill Unicron, but his total immortality would be such a distraction that Unicron could get hit in the back.
BW Megatron - look, he'd just find a way, okay? He always does.
And hey, if Megatron had succeeded in Beast Machines, he probably would've been on Unicron's level...
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Post by legios on Aug 15, 2008 6:02:54 GMT
Shrapnel/Silverbolt - no, they couldn't store/generate/channel enough electricity to hurt him. But nor could Circuit-Breaker if Furman hadn't re-written the rules on a whim a changed her ability We could claim she was channelling the electricity from Cybertron (or bits of it)... Not sure that this works for me - I'm not convinced that Circuit Breaker's suit was designed to channel that much power. Regardless of where the electricity is coming from there are going to be limitations to how much can actually be put through the suit before it, and possibly the wearer simply burn out. It would be like trying to put the full output of a power-station through the domestic wiring in your house, it wouldn't be able to take the load. I'm inclined to think that Cybertron had already used up the "good stuff" in terms of strategic weapons. They are the sort of things that would have been used in the mid-war period to try to force some sort of resolution, in my opinion. I can't see the Decepticon's being in a position to rebuild their stockpiles after the war, given the general economic ruin of Cybertron and the on-going Autobot insurgency. Karl |
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Post by grahamthomson on Aug 15, 2008 7:33:04 GMT
Maybe those "interplanetary engines" Megatron tried to build were actually going to be used as weapons against Unicron?
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Aug 15, 2008 8:10:35 GMT
I dunno if Megatron planned it as such, but some tinkering with them would make a pretty big gun out of the things.
Shouldn't have shunned Flame, eh guys?
EDIT: And the Mecannibals could eat Unicron. It wouldn't work but they'd die happy.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 15, 2008 8:32:58 GMT
Fallen Dave could come up from the centre of Cybertron and tickle Unicron's feet until he gives up.
-Ralph
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Aug 15, 2008 9:29:07 GMT
We could claim she was channelling the electricity from Cybertron (or bits of it)... Not sure that this works for me - I'm not convinced that Circuit Breaker's suit was designed to channel that much power. Regardless of where the electricity is coming from there are going to be limitations to how much can actually be put through the suit before it, and possibly the wearer simply burn out. It would be like trying to put the full output of a power-station through the domestic wiring in your house, it wouldn't be able to take the load. Karl That's pretty much what happened - she dropped out of the sky ("Ohhhhhh....") and ended up comatose. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 10:28:25 GMT
I read that story some time ago but never thought about how a human wearing a fancy-dress costume could do damage to Unicron but Transformers seven times her size had no effect on the chaos bringer.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 16, 2008 10:43:10 GMT
It's what happens when a chaos bringer attacks a planet of robots on a Saturday morning, when the inhabitants have horrendous hangovers.
-Ralph
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 11:04:56 GMT
Maccadams must have made a killing on the Friday night then.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 16, 2008 15:04:29 GMT
I choose to believe that it is actually Maccadams who is the planet Cybertron and Primus is the bloke who runs the pub. This explains much, when you think about it.
-Ralph
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dyrl
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Post by dyrl on Aug 31, 2008 19:25:50 GMT
In Furman's defence - remember that Circuit Breaker was only able to DISTRACT Unicron with her attack - it lasted a very short time, and remeber that GB Blackrock was well aware that by egging her on, he risked that CB would fry herself - so... while I grant the point that it seems implausible for her to channel that much power - Furman does not make it limitless - her attack is short, and it hurts her more than it hurts Unicron.
I imagine that this would be true for any TF - working alone, they would at best annoy Unicron.
But, if, in their darkest hour, all were one - then they could use their individual powers together to beat him.
That or a disco ball...
Or they could step aside and let human sized robots who speak like R2-D2 hold hands....
Err... but seriously- lots of interesting ideas here - with Megatron's anti-matter being the most obvious...
But I think the best idea would be to transform Cybertron into Primus...
although - what are the physics of a battle between Primus and Unicron?
Can anyone hypothesize?
I would imagine that Unicron coming into the orbit of any world would reak havoc on its' environment.
I would further imagine that transforming into Primus would likely kill all TFs planetside and absolutely destroy every city on the planet.
I would further postulate that if anyone miraculously survived Primus's transformation - being ON him while he fought Unicron would...well--- imagine if you're 'on' his arm and he's swinging it to hit Unicron?
Anyone who knows physics want to help out and explain what it would be like?
Pete
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 31, 2008 19:34:29 GMT
although - what are the physics of a battle between Primus and Unicron? I'm still searching for a reason why they have legs and feet, or where exactly they think they're going to walk to on them. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 31, 2008 19:38:15 GMT
How else can they dance the waltz in the Cosmic Ballroom at the end of time?
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 31, 2008 20:03:28 GMT
How else can they dance the waltz in the Cosmic Ballroom at the end of time? Good point well made. Martin |
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dyrl
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Post by dyrl on Sept 1, 2008 14:23:40 GMT
Well - Unicron clearly has legs and feet so that he can STOMP on Cybertron as he does in Transformers the movie - this is also why he has those sharp big toe nails. His claw adorned arms/hands exist to rip other worlds - like Cybertron apart. As do his horns. So - Unicron has these things because it makes destroying his target more amusing and fulfilling. Granted- he could have sixteen feet - but I think he does fine with two.... Primus has legs/feet/arms/hands to fight Unicron who has them to stomp on Primus. Seems pretty clear to me  Oh - and if YOU were a giant robot from outer space - wouldn't YOU want to look like us? Pete |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2008 15:07:13 GMT
this is also why he has those sharp big toe nails. Has any transformer ever got caught under one of Unicron's toenails? |
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 1, 2008 16:29:53 GMT
If I was a giant robot from outer space I'd want to look like a pumpkin. Pumpkins are scary.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 1, 2008 16:53:29 GMT
Oh - and if YOU were a giant robot from outer space - wouldn't YOU want to look like us? Speak for yourself, I don't have horns and scary toenails! If Unicron really had such a limited imagination that he had to fall back on the humans' traditional image of the Devil, he could at least have given himself a tail. Wouldn't you have given yourself a tail, to skewer cities with? Martin |
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Sept 1, 2008 17:02:04 GMT
If I was a giant robot from outer space I'd want to look like a pumpkin. Pumpkins are scary. -Ralph I think you'll find that Unicron is a pumpkin. Big round orange thing, triangular leaves at the top, tough outer skin; the Armada version even has an army of pumpkin seed Mini-Cons. |
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dyrl
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Post by dyrl on Sept 1, 2008 19:23:24 GMT
On a related note: Death's Head gave Unicron quite the run for his money in the astral plane of the mind... Just finished reading my Legacy of Unicron TPB.... again ... ah - how I love those old Marvel stories. Nothing will ever compare to that continuity. Pete |
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