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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 13, 2013 18:58:32 GMT
Last night I watched a Voyager episode I hadn't seen before (season 6 - The Good Shepherd) which was quite a nostalgic experience. Knew I'd not seen a handful from season 6 but could never remember which.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 13, 2013 19:58:35 GMT
Just last week I came across a random episode on the youtubes - Course: Oblivion (titled as Course to Oblivion). It started as the standard hackneyed 'spatial anomaly' plotline then subverted it rather neatly though to say how gives the game away. Resulted in a very grim and despairing tale more in line with UK SF. I had completely forgotten the twist until it happened. Then I worked out when I would have originally seen the episode on BBC2 and forgave myself for forgetting it!
-Ralph
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Jan 14, 2013 9:55:11 GMT
Kinda expected Crusher leaving to have the opposite effect, with Picard feeling more of a need to be a parental figure. Feels in some part responsible for the death of the kid's Dad and now his mother leaves Wes alone on board leaving Picard responsible (albeit through rank, but still so).
I guess, without the possibility of romance with Beverly, maybe Picard only views the relationship with Wes professional now.
Found Pulaski's early episodes where she's very cynical of Data to be vaguely reminiscent of McCoy's interactions with Spock.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 14, 2013 13:15:09 GMT
I wouldn't call it cynicism, blatant racism more like. But then no more than Cmdr. Maddox in 'The Measure of a Man' either. For an 'enlightened' society the Federation sure had a problem with AI of all strips including androids, holograms, software lifeforms, exocomps, etc. Even comments on Geordi's visor were somewhat out of place.
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Jan 14, 2013 14:26:49 GMT
Not entirely, they did save the computer's Moriarty program.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 14, 2013 16:29:04 GMT
By putting him in storage for years rather than allowing him to choose to keep running in a holodeck somewhere.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 14, 2013 19:55:52 GMT
Yes. The Federation really doesn't like 'the other'. Look at how they treat the mentally ill, genetically engineered, AI's, etc.
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Jan 16, 2013 3:01:37 GMT
Well, Star Trek always strived to show us a reflection of our own society, as well as a dream image of how it could be. At least that's the way it was while Roddenberry was working on it.
Since they really couldn't make commentaries on actual racism since we were supossed to be better than that by then, they did so in more non-traditional ways.
And generally the crew of the Enterprise always came around to realizing their errors, and treating these different life forms with respect by the end of the episode. Other treks outside of TOS and TNG usually went in different directions.
As for Polaski/Data... had a conversation about this with my sis a few weeks back, actually. She said she couldn't stand her because she felt Polaski was a bully to Data.
Yes, Polaski was racist towards Data, but I always found it to be one born of ignorance than hatred. She truely did not understand Data, which I felt was a great way to show how Data handles adversity. Especially on a ship where everyone loves, respects, and protects him, as anytime else he experinces it they have to introduce an outside character to cause it which you automatically know it'll be resolved by the end of the episode with the admiral/adversary/whoever being defeated or shown the error of his/her way.
As well as it gave a way to develope Polaski herself, having her overcome this ignorance the more she understands him.
I didn't like polaski as a kid, because she replaced Cusher, and because she was mean to data. But as an adult, I've come to wish we could have seen more of the character, and seen her grow and evolve.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 31, 2013 16:19:02 GMT
I appear to now have the SyFy Channel (non-HD) on my Virgin package and have been enjoying the redone TNG a lot. There are still a couple of scenes here and there that looked like the touch up missed them out but overall I am really impressed.
However the more ludicrous moments of the 1st and 2nd season can no longer hide behind the shaky sets and echoing sound of the original broadcast cuts. The redone stuff really shows brilliantly how much effort and style went into the production of this show right from the start.
Loving it. And very tempted now to get a blu-ray player to enjoy them at full HD.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 31, 2013 20:52:09 GMT
I must plunder your copies, chum!
-Ralph
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Feb 1, 2013 10:30:55 GMT
SyFyHD now repeating S1 of TNG as they got to the end of S2.
Bit disappointed S2 ends with a clip show, but I guess these hadn't quite become the cliche lazy episode back then.
Ryker's swagger continues to impress. Dude is always talking to a new girl whenever you see him in the bar. His cocky walk however makes him look like he has a bad back.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 1, 2013 12:03:08 GMT
SyFyHD now repeating S1 of TNG as they got to the end of S2. Bit disappointed S2 ends with a clip show, but I guess these hadn't quite become the cliche lazy episode back then. I'd disagree with you about it not being a cliche, I thought it was even then. S2 is an odd beast: delayed due to the writers strike, kicking off with recycled scripts but very very slowly starting to find it's feet as it goes on. I wonder what it would have been like if they'd been able to start with resolving the end of season 1 story with the unknown incursions into the Neutral Zone as planned? |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Feb 1, 2013 12:26:45 GMT
Interesting. I didn't know that was the plan. I think it works out well that there is space between 'The Neutral Zone' and 'Q Who' when this is bought up again. Reminds the venue subtly that space is pretty vast and things can still be left mysterious.
Was watching the TOS episode 'The Conscience of The King' last night and it was nicely used there as well in that colonies were so remote to the home world and so disconnected just because of the vast distances involved that you *could* (almost) get away with mass murder.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 1, 2013 12:42:04 GMT
It's a shame the Conspiracy parasites never were revisited.
Andy
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 1, 2013 12:42:41 GMT
Interesting. I didn't know that was the plan. I think it works out well that there is space between 'The Neutral Zone' and 'Q Who' when this is bought up again. Reminds the venue subtly that space is pretty vast and things can still be left mysterious. talks about the original plan |
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Post by Toph on Feb 1, 2013 22:51:59 GMT
A follow-up to the conspiracy parasites would have been a great short arc for DS9.
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 1, 2013 23:00:46 GMT
YES!!! Conspiracy is my favorite TNG episode and it should have had a follow-up. I would have loved a TNG film sequel to it. It would have been a good mirrow to Space Seed and Wrath of Khan.
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Post by Bogatan on Feb 1, 2013 23:14:48 GMT
Once DS9 had Changlings they didn't really need the parasites for that kind of story though. Just finished watching the remastered TNG season 2, I appear to now have the SyFy Channel (non-HD) on my Virgin package and have been enjoying the redone TNG a lot. There are still a couple of scenes here and there that looked like the touch up missed them out but overall I am really impressed. Apparently the remaster was not done by the in house team that did Season 1. Basically they did a shit job in two ways. Firstly the quality of the work is just not as good, there screen caps of shots where the Enterprise model has been cropped for the last few frames and other bits that really are amateur hour type stuff. Admittedly most are just a few frames so if you arent looking I doubt you'll see them but well Trekkies are going to find them. Second someone over seeing it took a different approach to the first season. In that things like the planet shots when ships are in orbit were redone so that you could see the continents and the atmosphere is details. For season two someone went, no the planets are kinda blurry in the original so we'll make them look just like that. So planets got redone from scratch and then blurred out. The in house team will be doing the rest of the odd numbered seasons and a new company will be doing the rest of the even ones. I think I'm going to start with Season 3 on Bluray (which will include both parts of Best of Both Worlds I believe so even if the new season 4 remasters are screwed up BOBW will not be affected). I would love to see the extra on the season 1 and 2 discs but dont think I'll want to rewatch the episodes for a bit so I'll wait for sales. |
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Post by Toph on Feb 2, 2013 0:54:23 GMT
I think the presence and existence of the changelings would have made the parasites more interesting.
The dominion trying to infiltrate and take over, but at the same time getting blamed for things they genuinely didn't do, because the parasites are trying to do the same thing. AND take over the dominion as well.
That said, it would be a rubbish long term story. But would have made for an interesting and amusing three or four episode arc, spread out over the course of a season.
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 2, 2013 10:18:02 GMT
SyFyHD now repeating S1 of TNG as they got to the end of S2. Bit disappointed S2 ends with a clip show, but I guess these hadn't quite become the cliche lazy episode back then. It ends with a clip show as there was a writer's strike in Hollywood at the time and the show had to be shut down. They literally were not allowed to construct a full original script. For the same reason, the season was curtailed by 4 episodes. It also hails from a bygone TV era of the last episode of a season just being...the last episode of a season without it having to be EPIC CLIFFHANGER ENDING or BIG ADVANCEMENT OF THE ARC PLOT or MAJOR SECRETS ARE REVEALED, which seems to be the curse of modern telly. Still a duff episode though! -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 2, 2013 10:20:57 GMT
As far as I am aware, the Conspiracy aliens have been ignored by the books and comics as well. No-one seems to give a toss!
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 2, 2013 10:49:27 GMT
SyFyHD now repeating S1 of TNG as they got to the end of S2. Bit disappointed S2 ends with a clip show, but I guess these hadn't quite become the cliche lazy episode back then. It ends with a clip show as there was a writer's strike in Hollywood at the time and the show had to be shut down. They literally were not allowed to construct a full original script. For the same reason, the season was curtailed by 4 episodes. It also hails from a bygone TV era of the last episode of a season just being...the last episode of a season without it having to be EPIC CLIFFHANGER ENDING or BIG ADVANCEMENT OF THE ARC PLOT or MAJOR SECRETS ARE REVEALED, which seems to be the curse of modern telly. Still a duff episode though! -Ralph Um..... isn't the writer's strike at the start of the season ? The shut down is between s1 & s2 necessitating the reuse of old scripts at the start of s2. See en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Child_%28episode%29 (1988-11-21) en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Shades_of_Gray_%28episode%29 (1989-07-17) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike (1988-03-07 to 1988-08-07) en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/TNG_Season_2#Production |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 2, 2013 13:00:55 GMT
Yep, but it cut into development time and coupled with the revolving door of writers/producers resulted in the clip show and a shorter season.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 2, 2013 13:32:39 GMT
True but the start of the strike isn't the reason for suddenly needing a clip show.
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 2, 2013 14:45:25 GMT
I direct you to the interviews in the Boxtree Captain's Logs books which are pretty frank about the chaos going on behind the scenes and why things happened and when.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 2, 2013 20:18:50 GMT
As far as I am aware, the Conspiracy aliens have been ignored by the books and comics as well. No-one seems to give a toss! -Ralph Such a shame nothing was done with those aliens. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 2, 2013 20:20:23 GMT
I never knew Shaded of Grey was because of a writers strike. Explains the crap episode.
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Post by Toph on Feb 3, 2013 3:08:15 GMT
Everything I've ever read, ever, anywhere, on any site or in any book, as well as from any trek fan I've known (And I've been in two clubs), all says Shades of Grey was due to the fact they ran out of money. They were planning a big cliffhanger finale with the Borg. But they'd ended up spending their entire budget already.
This thread is the only place in my life I've ever heard the reason for the clipshow being attributed to a writer's strike.
Elements from the Borg finale that never was were heavily reused for Best of Both Worlds.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 3, 2013 7:08:22 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 3, 2013 7:59:58 GMT
The Shades of Grey link on the previous page ( en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Shades_of_Gray_%28episode%29#Production ) attributes Shades of Grey to the writer's strike but then quotes Rob Bowman from the books that Ralph mentioned attributing it to the high cost of Elementary Dear Data and Q Who Certainly the production of a stinker such as this - which I clearly remember watching with my my friend Sean on our third day at University - is at distinct odds with the progress the show made through it's second season which has a strong upward curve. Though I'm afraid to say the only one I've watched with any regularity since is Q Who. |
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