|
Post by Bogatan on Nov 22, 2018 17:45:54 GMT
I sort of agree, though I might lean towards defined than distilled.
I'm actually rewatching Discovery right now and when I ignore the make up and the horrific inability of the actors to speak then I find myself kind of liking this period in Klingon history. If it fits the timeline properly is another matter. Previous shows have had Klingons talk a lot about honouring Kahless, but this is the first time Ive really bought in to him as a god being worshipped by some but just being used as a call to arms by others.
Like the rest of Discovery some of the needless changes make it harder to judge the show than it should have been. If the show looked visually more like what we've had since 86 (with a suitable updating) then I think much of what has been done would be seen as decent developements to trek lore.
Really hoping season 2 manages to find the balance. Its ridiculous how much of a difference just giving Klingon their hair back makes.
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Nov 22, 2018 23:04:16 GMT
I have more to say about klingons and aliens in general, but I think I'll save that for another day.
As for Discovery itself, my general thought is I quite enjoyed it, but it's not Star Trek. There's just not really much of anything outside of a few references, that this story wouldn't completely stand on it's own if you renamed the characters and organizations. I mean, Voyager was literally divorced from virtually every familier Star Trek thing, and it still felt like Star Trek. The Orville feels like Star Trek to me, too.
But I did like it, and the story it told. The characters were pretty interesting, the effects were glorious. And the klingon actors inability to speak did irritate me. I would have thought the solution would have been audio replacement in post, instead of the other characters slurring their speech when speaking klingon. It was kinda like... by the time I got used to it where I didn't hear it anymore, then the non-klingons started speaking that way.
|
|
|
Post by KnightBeat on Dec 1, 2018 12:33:32 GMT
What?!?!
And the link for Ralph: twitter.com/daytonward/status/1068180993247465473
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Dec 1, 2018 13:52:44 GMT
Dayton Wars is one of the main writers on the Trek novel range and is known for his humour. He also has a good mock-up of a joke cover for a non-existent novel based on a Trek Mego set.
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 2, 2018 16:11:54 GMT
Didn't find out until late, but yesterday Amazon had all treks on sale 50% off, except for Discovery. With the exception of the animated series, I now own every trek. I got complete remastered TNG, complete ds9, complete voyager, and complete enterprise.
Yesterday I went hog wild and bought 26 years worth of star trek.
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Dec 2, 2018 16:19:21 GMT
Can you watch it all within the next 26 years?
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Dec 2, 2018 16:40:28 GMT
Didn't find out until late, but yesterday Amazon had all treks on sale 50% off, except for Discovery. With the exception of the animated series, I now own every trek. I got complete remastered TNG, complete ds9, complete voyager, and complete enterprise. Yesterday I went hog wild and bought 26 years worth of star trek. Then you need Animated to complete the set! -Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 2, 2018 17:29:47 GMT
Indeed. I forgot about Animated when I made the order, and just didn't want to do a second order at the time.
On the plus side, it gives me something to go after later. But aside from that, I now have the complete Trek until Discovery Season Two premiers in january.
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 2, 2018 19:03:21 GMT
Trek by the Numbers Each series by episode count (counting the movies as episodes): Ent- 98 Disco- 28 TOS- 80 TAS- 22 TOS Movies- 6 TNG- 176 TNG Movies- 4 DS9- 173 Voy- 170 Reboot- 3 = 762 Episodes total
If you watched an episode a day, that's two years and almost three months.
But if you wanna take it even slower... By season: Ent- 4 (i'd have sworn up and down it was five) Disco- 2 (so far) TOS- 3 TAS- 2 TNG- 7 DS9- 7 Voy- 7
I have no clue how to work the movies into this arbitrary context. But if you watched a season of trek a year, it would take 31 years to go through all existing trek, not including the movies. Never mind whatever comes out in the meantime.
And if you wanna take it really slow, and watch an episode/movie a year, then I know what you're doing for the rest of the millennium.
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Dec 2, 2018 19:12:20 GMT
This is something I need to do and have every intention of doing, but I'm not sure how to find the time. I've had the TOS Blu-rays for years.
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Dec 2, 2018 19:38:28 GMT
I marathoned TOS, TAS, movies 1-6, Enterprise and burned out halfway through TNG s2!
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by drmick on Dec 2, 2018 23:28:33 GMT
Trek by the NumbersEach series by episode count (counting the movies as episodes): Ent- 98 Disco- 28 TOS- 80 TAS- 22 TOS Movies- 6 TNG- 176 TNG Movies- 4 DS9- 173 Voy- 170 Reboot- 3 = 762 Episodes total If you watched an episode a day, that's two years and almost three months. But if you wanna take it even slower... By season: Ent- 4 (i'd have sworn up and down it was five) Disco- 2 (so far) TOS- 3 TAS- 2 TNG- 7 DS9- 7 Voy- 7 I have no clue how to work the movies into this arbitrary context. But if you watched a season of trek a year, it would take 31 years to go through all existing trek, not including the movies. Never mind whatever comes out in the meantime. And if you wanna take it really slow, and watch an episode/movie a year, then I know what you're doing for the rest of the millennium. What is reboot?
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 3, 2018 1:11:00 GMT
Star Trek (2011) Star Trek Into Darkness Star Trek Beyond
The reboot movies
|
|
|
Post by drmick on Dec 3, 2018 18:28:27 GMT
Star Trek (2011) Star Trek Into Darkness Star Trek Beyond The reboot movies Wow. I'm ashamed of myself for not catching that! I despised, DESPISED I tell you, 2009 Trek. But bizarrely, I really enjoyed the next two.
|
|
|
Post by Bogatan on Dec 3, 2018 19:02:52 GMT
While I despise 2 but really like 1&3.
Everyone seems to dislike at least one of them.
I have Animated TNG DS9
I will eventually get TOS and all the movies.
Im unlikely to ever get Voyager and probably wont get Enterprise, especially while Netflix has them all.
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 3, 2018 19:08:34 GMT
Star Trek (2011) Star Trek Into Darkness Star Trek Beyond The reboot movies Wow. I'm ashamed of myself for not catching that! I despised, DESPISED I tell you, 2009 Trek. But bizarrely, I really enjoyed the next two. WAS IT 2009?!? Holy hell, it does not seem like ten years ago!
|
|
|
Post by drmick on Dec 3, 2018 19:30:09 GMT
Wow. I'm ashamed of myself for not catching that! I despised, DESPISED I tell you, 2009 Trek. But bizarrely, I really enjoyed the next two. WAS IT 2009?!? Holy hell, it does not seem like ten years ago! It was JJ' s application for the Star Wars job. And I hated it for that.
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 3, 2018 21:20:40 GMT
Oh god, he made the absolute worst star wars movie. His breaking the laws of physics so badly I nearly shut it off. YOU CAN'T WATCH PLANETS BE BLOWN UP IN ANOTHER STAR SYSTEM AS CLEARLY AS IF THEY WERE YOUR OWN MOON! SPACE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Everything he did wrong in Star Trek, he compiled it ten fold in Star Wars!
The Deathstar breaks the laws of physics in so many ways, but at least you can suspend disbelief! At least that was somewhat believable!
*pant*pant*pant*
|
|
|
Post by drmick on Dec 3, 2018 23:29:29 GMT
I went back into the past and have copied my opinion of 2009 Trek below, typos included: My synopsis of the film is as thus: In the TNG future, a star close to Romulus is about to go nova. I'm not an astrophysicist but I'm pretty sure that it would be quite obvious for THOUSANDS of years that the star was about to go nova, long before the original Vulcans settled there. Anyway, rather than get the brightest minds that both the Federation and Romulus have to solve the problem they get one man, a pretty old one at that, to sort the problem. Maybe evacuating the planet might have been a useful precaution? And since the Romulan Star Empire use quantum singularities (mini black holes) to power their ships why the hell do they need Federation sourced red matter? Spock was obviously having an afternoon nap, or troubled with intractable prostatism because he was bit late injecting the red matter. Romulus got destroyed, but what the heck, let's inject that stuff anyway. (Given that Spock was living on Romulus by the time of the TNG era I'm wondering if he got really pissed off and let the planet get destroyed). Nero was obviously watching nearby, rather than actually going to rescue his wife (who appeared human). Presumably as a miner, he was part of some sort of trade union that prevented him doing rescue work, as that's not part of his contract. He watches his planet and pregnant wife get fried and he's a pit pissed. Both Spock and the Nerada get pulled into a black hole, which rather than crushing them to a microscopic pea pulls them back in time. The first thing Nero sees on going through the singularity is an ancient (to him) Starfleet vessel. He opens fire but rather than destroying it completely and getting on with the mission of finding Spock (who was just nearby a moment ago) asks their captain to come over for tea and scones. Then he spends the next 25 years waiting for Spock to come through the anomaly. Hello? How long would you wait? I'd give up after a day or two. Anyhow, the rest of Nero's crew, who I assume also should be part of a miner trade union go along with this. As opposed to going home, betting on the Romulan Superbowl and marrying their grandmothers. Spock eventually comes through. Kill him after all this time? Nah. Why not just put him on Vulcan's nearbying planet, a stones throw from a Starfleet base and let him watch his planet die from having a black hole at its core. Presumambly this planet doesn't rotate on its own axis so as to guarantee that Spock would actually not be on the WRONG side of the planet when Vulcan croaked. On Vulcan, their greatest minds are standing in a crumbling cave, meditating and thinking about to have for dinner, while their planet starts to disintegrate. Meanwhile back on Earth the brand new flagship is launched with a crew of mostly cadets? A 3rd year (not FINAL year) student is made the 1st Officer when Pike goes over for tea and scones. Hellllloooooo? Where are all the officers? Heck, where are all the crew who actually have trained to run the ship? Back at Hoth, future Spock risks the fate of the entire federation just so that his past younger self (who now constitutes a significant proportion of the Vulcan race) can get a bit of experience of dealing with humans on a day to day basis. And isn't convenient that Scotty, who has yet to actually prove he is a genius other than copying some future Vulcan, just happens to be next door? The Trek rules of time travel are thrown out the window in this one, in that most other time travel plots always involve the same timeline. Alternate realities do exist in the Trek universe, but once their residents cross over into our universe, it usually means its curtains for them (e.g. "Parallels" characters, Enterprise C crew and the alternate Miles O'Brien from "Visionary"). Back at the final fight the Nerada gets a full dose of red matter. A drop of this stuff can destroy a planet, but the whole lot just makes you get stuck in first gear. Kirk offers to help, Nero politely refuses so Kirk massacres them in a move akin to German fighter planes raking the cold and wet Titanic survivors with bullets a la Pearl Harbor. In fact, rather than back away first and just drop some torpedoes into the gravity well, he flies TOWARDS the Nerada and the black hole to kill them!!! !!!! For this genocidal act Kirk gets promoted to CAPTAIN straight from third year!!!!! No final year, no ensign, no Lietenant j.g., no lietenant, no lietenant commander, no commander. Nope, staright to captain. Of the flagship of the fleet. In what reality or career would this ever happen?
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Dec 4, 2018 8:02:09 GMT
2009 was such a shit film.
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Dec 4, 2018 12:27:32 GMT
Aye it was. And so was Star Wars 7. Thanks for shitting on two of my favourite things, JJ, ya big twat.
|
|
|
Post by drmick on Dec 4, 2018 20:27:11 GMT
And yet both seemed to be very well regarded by critics, and most of the respective fans at the time.
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 4, 2018 21:43:22 GMT
Because Abrams is great with two things: Impressive visuals Great characters, and bringing the best out of the actors.
TFA is one of the absolute stupidest movies I've ever watched. It's plot is just absolutely horrendous. It's representation of science is an abomination that no thinking person should suffer. But I'll be damned of it wasn't the first time outside of Clone Wars that I actually enjoyed star wars characters and cared about them. I actually cared about what happened to Rey, Finn, and Poe. BB8 was the first Star Wars robot I didn't want to see scrapped. First appearance of Chewbacca that wasn't borderline obnoxious, to me. (For contrast, I enjoy chewbacca about as much as most people enjoy Jar Jar. And I hate yoda worse than that) Add to that, the fact that almost as much time separated TFA from RotS, as separated TPM and RotJ. And people were majorly disappointed with the prequels.
Star Trek's plot, while heavily flawed, isn't nearly as stupid as TFA's mess. But it is a mess full of things that look good, but make zero sense with even a little bit of critical thinking. But we see the same thing: he brings out the best in his actors, and by god is this cast perfect. They bring the characters to life without turning them into caricatures of the original actors. Star Trek was a very similar situation. It had been a while since the end of Enterprise, and fans were anxious for a new trek. It looked spectacular, and the actors hit it home. People who aren't terribly fussed about bad plot devices don't care much about the plot. So they were really happy to ignore the things that turned us off. And that's why the people who didn't enjoy the first one tended to really dig the third, because it had the first two elements Abrams put into place, but finally joined by a plot that actually worked.
I'm tying this up because I think I'm starting to ramble and lose my point.
Abrams is a lot like Michael Bay in a lot of ways. They both have a strong style that's not inherently bad, but I think both are better served in the role of producer. And indeed the things they have been strongly involved with on the production side tend to reap the benefits of their styles, without as many of the bad directorial decisions.
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 4, 2018 21:44:48 GMT
Point being, I think that's why TFA and ST tend to get a lot of praise from critics and fans.
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Dec 4, 2018 21:46:14 GMT
But it all still leads to the conclusion that JJ Abrams fundamentally doesn't understand or care that SPACE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Dec 8, 2018 22:21:33 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 8, 2018 22:52:39 GMT
Where have the years gone?
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Dec 8, 2018 22:57:00 GMT
"Sit down, Admiral. The girls will take years off you."
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 9, 2018 13:01:07 GMT
Where have the years gone? I spent them watching a hummingbird beat its wings... once.
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Dec 9, 2018 13:35:53 GMT
"I did it for the Federation. I did it all for the Federation."
*gurns to death*
-Ralph
|
|