Torchwood

[The Doctor]

Thought it was boring.

-Ralph

[legios]

I thought that the second part was an improvement on the first, but the pacing still felt quite laboured in places and I felt that the momentum fell off quite a bit in the middle.

I was amused by the way that the evil government soldiers flip-flopped between being half competent ("You are immortal but not superstrong, so we're just going to pave over you so that you can be immortal all you like out of our way" is a response to that problem that I am amazed it took so long to see on screen) and being spectacularly rubbish (bringing what appeared to be the worst marksman in Britain as their back-up plan for eliminating Torchwood.). I think that they are probably meant to be scary in their black jumpsuits and all, but sadly they provide me with more sense of amusement than they do threat at the moment.

It feels like there is a decent idea for a regular Torchwood episode, or a two-parter maybe. But so far I'm not really convinced that this story really benefits from being two hours long.

Karl

[The Doctor]

Very strong ratings and audience share for parts 1-2, so the experiement can be judged a success so far.

I think stripping it across the week works. Had there been a week before episode 3 I doubt I would not be bothered with it but as it's on again just the next day I think: "och well, maybe it'll get better, I'll give it a go."

-Ralph

[The Doctor]

So: episode 3. The aliens are good. Peter Capaldi is good.

You know, I'd rather just watch the show they're in. The other show runing parallel to it, in which the Torchwood gang do generic conspiracy bollocks stuff is far less interesting.

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

Peter Capaldi is amazing in it. I was saying to the Kaptain tonight that if Who had come back in the early/mid 90's I think he would have been a likely candidate.

Yeah the conspiracy bollocks is just that - bollocks. Some nice touches but not really something that works all that well with Torchwood's tone.

Still it's improving with each episode. And you know Jack's daughter will kill that jumpsuited bint!

Andy

[The Doctor]

Nooooooooo! Jumpsuited bint must not die. She must live! She's filthy.

-Ralph

[legios]

Indeed, Andy and I were discussing the fact that they must get Capaldi and Barrowman in the same room in the same scene before the end of the story. The fact that they haven't had screen time together so far is a crying shame.

Jump-suit numpty is almost certainly going to be killed I should think, especially given her habit of lapsing back to the same level of stupid as the rest of the Keystone Black Ops. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Jack's daughter that did the deed either, especially as she comes by her tradecraft from both sides of the family.

(I did note that Jack Harkness is now pretty much acknowledged on-screen as being a superhero - complete with a need for a superhero costume. That amused me.)

The government conspiracy thing isn't really doing a great deal for me either - I've seen too many versions of it for this to really be bringing anything new to the table. However, I am coming back this evening mostly for Capadli's performance which I am rather enjoying.

Karl

[The Doctor]

I wish it wasn't mostly in London though. It makes it feel like a zillion other shows. Torchwood being all set in Cardiff at least made it disdinctive from other similar shows/films.

-Ralph

[karla]

when i first saw alien's silhuoette, I thought it was a quintiesson of some kind. It had 3 voices (if you can call throwing up a voice) and seemed to have 3 faces that revolved around.

.....then all the tentacles appeared and I was thrown "what alien is this?"

Jack should get his kit off again

can't wait for what this evenings episode will bring

[legios]

Hmmm. Indeed, thinking about it the Londoness of the whole thing is rather a pity. Everything else is set in London so setting Torchwood there does rather remove its unique selling point.

Ah well another episode tonight, hopefully with lots of stuff with Peter Capaldi sweating his way nervously through negotiations with the aliens.

Karl

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Well, when I watch Doctor Who episodes that have been filmed in Cardiff but are supposedly set in London, I tend to forget it's supposed to be London and have it stuck in my head that it's Cardiff. I mean, 'Planet of the Dead' began with Michelle Ryan cat-burgling the National Museum of Wales and then escaping on a bus that went into a tunnel in Cardiff and then got zapped to another world. Changing the signs outside the museum, hiding any Welsh text and using a red London bus doesn't change any of that in my mind.

I mean, we _do_ have a red London bus in Cardiff. I see it driving round all the time. (Yes, we've only got it because it's a Doctor Who prop, but still...)

Martin

[Shockprowl]

I'm really enjoying Children of Earth, best thing to come outa Russel T. for ages and ages and ages.

And yeah, jumpsuit girl is nice in a dirty way!

[The Doctor]

She's pure filth. I hope she survives.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Jul 9, 2009 18:26:39 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

I mean, we _do_ have a red London bus in Cardiff. I see it driving round all the time. (Yes, we've only got it because it's a Doctor Who prop, but still...)

Martin

You know it's not a proper London bus ? No London Bus with 2 decks has ever had only mechanical door. It'll belong to an independant operator and have been repainted.

[The Doctor]

Epidode 4 was much better. And the jumpsuited bint survives. Hurray!

Is the 'Thames House' interior actually the lobby of the Millenium Centre in Cardiff? It's been bugging me all week. I could swear I recognise those bannisters.

-Ralph

[karla]

that bit was sick! are they going to do a big run on great ormond street too?
LOL chavs! a huge wave of burberry coming towards the aliens....

yanto nooooooooooooooooooooooooo jack kissed him so lovingly

[Andy Turnbull]

Enjoyed episode 4 immensely. Still no head to head with Capaldi and JB. That better happen tomorrow.

Andy

[The Doctor]

I really hope we don't get a crystal clear view of the 456. The full picture of it is best left to the imagination.

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

The most unrealistic thing about this sort of story is the conspiracy. There's no way that many different people can know something so terrible and not leak it to the media/public. It's not quite as ridiculous as the idea that the Moon Landing was faked (which is completely absurd, given the vast number of people involved), but still quite countrary to human nature.

Jul 9, 2009 21:12:00 GMT The Doctor said:

Is the 'Thames House' interior actually the lobby of the Millenium Centre in Cardiff? It's been bugging me all week. I could swear I recognise those bannisters.

What, the same bannisters from the hospital on New Earth and the location of the Master's press conference? Didn't spot 'em, but if you tell me the exact time on iPlayer I'll have a look.

The scene where Jack and Ianto march into 'Thames House' and put their guns on the reception desk was shot in the lobby of Welsh Assembly Government's offices in Cathays Park, Cardiff. I'll be walking through same those double automatic doors today when I go for my weekly Welsh lesson. Unlike Jack, I have a pass that gets me past security.

The main stairs down which all the people flee at 52:37, and the glass doors that they can't get out from are likewise Cathays Park.

Martin

[legios]

Trust Jack Harkness to temporarily dethrone the government just to get access to one of their buildings. He never has been one for subtle has he? (Actually I did enjoy Torchwood's brief coup. It was a terribly "British" affair).

The conspiracy is nonsense, and I suspect in a version of this story without Torchwood either Lois or possibly Frobisher(maybe through his loyal secretary) would have a subplot where they eventually went to the press after much soul-searching.

In actual fact, one of the things I have noticed is that we aren't that far from a version of this story without Torchwood. It seems that the Torchwood cast have become progressively less relevant to the progress of the story over the course of the last couple of hours. They seem to have become progressively more detached from the core of the story and shuffled to the sidelines with a little subplot that serves really to gather some exposition. (And even then parts of that get summarily switched of - like the alien killing Clem on the grounds that he has delivered his exposition and is not needed anymore).

It is almost as if Torchwood have been given their own plot to keep them busy and separated from the main drama of events. A bit like they are serving in a pseudo-Greek Chorus role of commenting on the action rather than actually being involved.

Not that I think that this has harmed the story at all. Indeed, I'm actually finding the most interesting bits of the last couple of episodes were the bits that the Torchwood cast weren't actually in. The scenes in COBRA in last nights episode - with the minister prepared to sacrifice kids on the basis of being unfortunate enough to be in an underperforming school so as to save those of what she clearly considered a "superior" social class(and boy do I have a strong dislike for her and her whole agenda), and Peter Capaldi doing a rather nice job playing a man becoming more and more uncomfortable with the way that events were proceeding - were rather good, and I was almost dissappointed to cut away from that stuff.

Only one hour to go and they still haven't given us a proper scene with Capaldi and Barrowman though. Is that really to much to ask?

Karl

[The Doctor]

As long as jumpsuit bint survives, I'm happy.

-Ralph

[Shockprowl]

Yeah, the COBRA scenes, chosing which children to go, was very unerving and disturbing, excellent writing! I see what Karlos means about Torchwood not being central to the story, good point. Jumpsuit continues to excite. But I disagree with the death of you know who (in case anyone hasn't watched it yet), there's gunna be none of 'em left! You can't keep killing off your lead characters!

[karla]

Jul 10, 2009 5:34:06 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

I'll be walking through same those double automatic doors today when I go for my weekly Welsh lesson. Unlike Jack, I have a pass that gets me past security.

Martin

ooooooo so you kill aliens without rasing too much suspicion. Bet you give doughnuts to them, just incase

[Bogatan]

Jul 10, 2009 14:24:43 GMT Shockprowl said:

Yeah, the COBRA scenes, chosing which children to go, was very unerving and disturbing, excellent writing! I see what Karlos means about Torchwood not being central to the story, good point. Jumpsuit continues to excite. But I disagree with the death of you know who (in case anyone hasn't watched it yet), there's gunna be none of 'em left! You can't keep killing off your lead characters!

I'm not sure about it either. It makes for great drama, but next season is going to require at least 2 new characters if not three. Rhys appears to have grown into a larger role since the first series but by next year he and Gwen will have a baby so at least one of them is going to be mostly stuck at home.

Angel managed to kill of its entire first series line up (barring Angel himself) including the regular bad guys, but new characters were gradually introduced before and after such deaths. There was never a gap in the cast. When it just about killed of the entire replacement line up it didnt matter because it was the last episode.

So my worry is that there wont be a next series of Torchwood. This is them going out with a bang, if you can do that in plot that barely involed you.

Based on the increasing rating though I guess that wont happen.

Andy

[The Doctor]

Jul 10, 2009 6:46:45 GMT legios said:

(And even then parts of that get summarily switched of - like the alien killing Clem on the grounds that he has delivered his exposition and is not needed anymore).

Karl

Well, he had been under attack from stock footage for a few days so inevitable really. Careful analysis of film and TV reveals nothing kills more effectively than stock footage.

-Ralph

[The Doctor]

Episode 5 was pretty good.

The Peter Capaldi show was great.

-Ralph

[legios]

Yeah, I thought they did pretty well there.

Fairly bleak, but I'm pleased that the resisted the temptation to give us an ending with a victory without sacrifice. It would have cheapened things to have pulled a clean victory out of a magic hat. The reveal of why the 456 wanted the children was quite effective as well. Nicely judged as a piece of writing I felt.

I thought that Peter Capaldi did a fantastic job with his scenes, there was something very vulnerable in his performance that really did resonate. I am struck also by the fact that Jack, in essence, makes the same moral choice as the Prime Minister. It is on a smaller scale certainly, but the reasoning behind it is effectively much the same. Fitting perhaps that we return to the morally dark grey version of Jack Harkness who opened Torchwood as a series, a kind of coming full circle as we do very much feel as if we have reached the end of the show.

Their best trick though, is that they managed to smuggle a fair stab at a (roughly) three hour SF drama onto a BBC1 evening slot by disguising it as Torchwood. Now that is truly a masterful piece of black ops.

Karl

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Although the Torchwood bits were admittedly not the main story, they did serve a necessary purpose, because without them or characters like them, only one side would be shown. We needed to keep having bits involving people who disagreed with the Government's strategy, to disguise the fact that there was an unrealistic lack of dissent within the Government. If you took out the Torchwood scenes we would be shaking our fists at the TV wondering why every character had the same perspective on things, and why they were effectively clones when it came to their moral compass.

There was a big difference between the PM's decision and Jack's, because Jack sacrificed his own grandchild to save others, whereas the PM was sacrificing the children of others to save himself.

The massive secret conspiracy was completely implausible. The sacrificing of children wasn't implausible though, because the same was done sending teenagers to the trenches in World War One. And then too, the most talented / academically gifted were exempted from being sent to die.

Martin

[Shockprowl]

I thought the whole mini-series has been the best thing to come out of the Dr. Who/Torchwood universe for a long time. Very well acted, brilliant 'supporting' cast, disturbing, emotional, with an ending that delivered when so many of these epic storyline endings have left me feeling cheated.

That's it for Torchwood then eh? Thought it had another series in it myself.

[primenova]

Just watching ep 3. The pointing at the sky bit. The actor all actored like animals compared to people. When you point animal look at you pointing while we woudl look in the direction of where the person is pointing, apart from these scenes.