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Post by The Doctor on May 26, 2009 17:26:25 GMT
Hey chaps. I had a thought. We've been through the comics on a week by week basis before, but have we ever done it with a show? Now that Animated is over, we could go look at an episode of an older show every week. Would anyone be interested in seeing what it's like to watch Super-God Masterforce the way it was originally shown, ie an episode a week from start to finish, 'broadcast' on Wednesdays?
Shall we call it Masterforce Wednesdays? Starting tomorrow?
Don't worry if you don't have the DVD's or haven't seen it before. The episodes are on youtube.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 26, 2009 17:28:12 GMT
I'd like to have a crack at it.
Andy
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Gav
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John Travoltage!
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Post by Gav on May 26, 2009 17:47:55 GMT
I'd definitely give it a go!
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Post by legios on May 26, 2009 19:41:30 GMT
Masterforce Wednesdays? I would definitely be interested in giving that a whirl. I have a soft spot for Masterforce anyways.
Karl
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 21:47:53 GMT
It's my favourite of all of the Japanese TF shows and also my favourite of all of the G1 shows in total. I watched one episode recently on Youtube but its been a while since I watched the entire series.
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chrisl
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Post by chrisl on May 27, 2009 8:30:20 GMT
Yes please
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Post by The Doctor on May 27, 2009 18:17:42 GMT
Right: episode 1 - Rise Up, Pretenders!
Youtube links for those without DVD's*:
-Ralph
*Though the show is so cheap on-line now, they are easy to get.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2009 19:25:14 GMT
When I first saw this episode I thought it was poor compared to the start of Headmasters. Later episodes though changed my opinion of the show.
The first episode is a nice roll-call to start off but nothing much happens in terms of plot. The battle in the city only serves to show us how powerful each side is.
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Post by legios on May 27, 2009 20:32:29 GMT
Chojin Masterforce, Episode 1: Rise up Pretenders.
Well, that certainly gets things off to a barnstorming start. No Headmasters style opening info-dump to explain the backstory. Instead we open by establishing the Destron Pretenders as distinctly evil and malevolent. Indeed the opening scenes of the episode are actually quite disturbing if you stop and think about them. The Destron's attack on the cruise liner results in, it is strongly implied, the deaths of some or all of the ships crew and passengers. Yes, making the victim whose eyes and camera we see some of the attack through a newlywed whose wife is the first victim of the attack may be stacking the deck a little, but in terms of establishing the Destron's as a real threat the whole sequence is quite effective. There is little doubt left that these are not Sunbow Decepticons, with some bonkers plan to dress up in cardboard Autobot suits and steal energy. These Destron's are quite prepared to kill and maim humans indiscriminately to achieve their goals – goals which we learn later in the episode have nothing to do with the humans whatsoever. I think it adds to the sense of threat of the Destrons that the destruction and death that they unleash in this episode is carefully calculated – they want the noble Cybertron, Metalhawk, to come out where they can find him and kill him and the carnage that they cause is simply a tool to that end. It makes all the damage that they do more disturbing to realise that it is simply a means to an end. The fact that the Destron Pretenders conciously chose to disguise themselves to resemble demons just underlines the fact that some thought has gone into what they are about. The Cybertron's are as ever, noble warriors for peace and justice. If the Destrons appear to be giant monsters – mythical demons and sea monsters – then it is somehow appropriate that the Cybertron's seem to be superheroes. Indeed, that characterisation is in some ways the key to what Chojin Masterforce is at its heart. Whilst it has Transformers in it, it also has some of the trappings of Japanese superhero fiction. The Cybertron Pretenders all have day jobs and normal lives in their human forms, but when danger threatens they henshin into costumed identities ready to save the day – in much the same way as Spiderman, the Jetman or JaKQ sentai teams or indeed Ultraman(they even have a special henshin pose that allows them to don their costumes). For that matter, like Ultraman the Pretenders grow from human- to giant-sized to do battle with the monsters. Like japanese superheroes they also divide neatly into distinct personality types to fit a niche within the team – Metalhawk is the noble and serious leader, Lander the garrulous sociable one, Phoenix the brash and confident one... and Diver is the bland one that the writers haven't figured out what to do with yet (following in the fine footsteps of Gatchaman's Ryu). I do rather like the way the Japanese Pretenders work – the fact that the Cybertrons have fully integrated themselves amongst humanity is an interesting use of the concept and allows Masterforce to be a bit different from the run-of-the-mill Transformers series. There is something rather charming about the fact that they have spent thousands of years living amongst humans and they still rather like our species – they see something admirable and noble in us. It is a rather optimistic point of view that appeals to me. As a first episode of course, Rise Up Pretenders, bears the burden of introducing us to the new series status quo and to a new cast of characters. What appeals to me is how much of this that it does by showing us rather than telling us. Certainly, Metalhawk is called on to deliver a quick info-dump on the basics of the Transformers backstory to ensure everyone knows that the robots come from Seibertron and that the Destrons are at war with the Cybertrons, but at least it is done in a way that makes sense in context. Having Shuta around in the role of mascot character gives us someone Metalhawk can explain these things. (I prefer this to the rather clunky narrator voice-over used in Headmasters). But for all that we do get a quick info-dump, we don't need to be told that the Destrons are evil because we have already seen them do evil things. Likewise no one tells us that Metalhawk is a stalwart and noble hero – we instead see him in action doing stalwart and nolby heroic things. I think this emphasis on showing, rather than telling helps to give this first episode its good swift pace. I've rambled a lot about ancillary stuff here, but at its core what Rise Up Pretenders is aiming to do is to act as a good solid launch-pad for a series. Its goal is, whether or not you know or care about Transformers per se, to hook your interest with a tale of horrible monsters who are really alien robots and the heroes who have hidden amongst humanity who rise to oppose them. I think it does what it sets out to pretty well – it moves at a good pace and hits all the right marks for its genre (the hero rescued from a terrible predicament by the arrival of his friends, the fiendish villian holding the mascot character hostage etc). I would have to call this a good solid start to the series. It certainly holds my attention far more than the opening episode of Headmasters did. Karl
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Post by The Doctor on May 27, 2009 20:41:55 GMT
Just watched it. I've only ever watched this show in batches of episodes so how strange to watch just one, and know I have to wait a whole week for the next episode!
A few things that struck me on this viewing:
-The opening scene is quietly subversive. We are introduced to a pleasant ship captain, singing a nice song and a newlywed couple. In a kids show we would expect these characters to be perhaps regulars. But they are suddenly (and quickly) killed before we even get to the title card.
-The incidental music is gorgeous.
-The ramping up of stakes in the city battle. There's an evil fish tentacle monster! Now there are two! Now other evil beasts have arrived! They've turned into robots! Now the battle has taken to the air! Much more interesting than just robots pointing and shooting.
-The suggestion near the end that the Autobot Transformers became human because they saw something within them that they themselves lacked. In one line, suddenly the Transformers are given an extra aloofnes, weirdness and downright alien complexion that was missing before (or since, arguably). This went completely over my head previously. Are some of the race chameleons, moulding themselves to the emotional states of dominant species on planets they land on? Could there be a race of, well, whale Transformers somewhere?
-The setting up of questions. How did the Decepticons escape their captivity? Just what will Hook do now? Why did he reveal his true identity to the young boy rather than leave him behind at home? Much more interesting than just: tune in next week for stuff blowing up, kids.
-Ralph
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Post by grahamthomson on May 28, 2009 8:19:26 GMT
(I know it's Thursday, am I too late to play?)
Nothing more to add to Karl's and Ralph's excellent appraisals. But even from the first episode Masterforce offers a certain depth to the storytelling not seen before in Transformers television, and, as Ralph says, portrays the Transformers are more "alien" than ever before.
I'm hooked already!
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Post by duffism1981 on May 28, 2009 9:00:46 GMT
I still think Phoenix looks like a Tesco value Wolverine.
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Post by blueshift on May 28, 2009 11:54:39 GMT
I really love the transformation sequences when the Pretenders phase out of their shells. Also the walking bit at the end is super-cool
Rise Pretendeeeeeeers!
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 28, 2009 12:21:55 GMT
It's clear from the opening couple of minutes that Masterforce is going to be quite different from the previous animated incarnations of Transformers.
The opening assault by Blood and co. leave you in no doubt that these humans are all dead. A welcome change in pace from the Sunbow era. The causing wanton destruction to call out the hero isn't anything new but it's arguably the most effective we've seen it deployed in Transformers (outside of G2)
It's interesting to see that the Pretender forces have been in play on Earth for quite some time, yet there's not much of a hint of any link between this series and any previous ones. Although that does change later on.
It's a very effective way of reintroducing the Transformers to be honest and the way they tackle the Pretender concept is head and shoulders above the way they were treated in the Marvel comics.
Much as I have a lot of love for the first episode of More Than Meets The Eye this has to be the strongest opening episode of any Transformers show.
Andy
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2009 16:35:33 GMT
It is a nice start to a series and probably the best start to any series of Transformers in the G1 era.
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Post by Dark Stranger on May 28, 2009 17:38:13 GMT
Great idea! I'm up for it, haven't seen much Masterforce, but will watch first episode soon!
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Gav
Drone
John Travoltage!
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Post by Gav on May 28, 2009 18:28:01 GMT
This episode teaches us us a lot of things:
1: This time the Decepticons aren't messing around (at least to begin with) 2: The Japanese seem to have an odd idea of how football is played.
Overall a great opening episode, one I like to watch now and again if a little sparkled.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2009 18:59:06 GMT
I found Japanese-rules Football as seen in the episode quite amusing. The team must have used a choreographer to teach them how to play football!
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 30, 2009 16:46:46 GMT
I agree with all that's been said.
One point not yet made: the pilot episode doesn't feature the leaders of this year's toy line. Has any other TF season pilot not featured one or more of the year's main leaders or top toys?
It's a sure sign of confidence and nerve, both on the part of the writers and Takara, who could no doubt have forced the issue. And a sign that this is a planned and structured series, where going all out in week one is not the aim of the game.
Martin
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Post by blueshift on May 30, 2009 17:07:34 GMT
I always got the feeling that, anime style, the main character was to be Shuta (Siren), and the increased popularity of Ginrai was more an organic thing on behalf of the writers
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 30, 2009 17:48:41 GMT
Nah, from the second episode onwards Shuta was a part of a trio and never a lead character in his own right. No more so than any of the other Junior HMs, anyway. Which I am very grateful for, as they were funny and likeable when in groups, but mostly annoying when solo acts. Until Ginrai came along, it was very much a team show.
Martin
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Post by legios on Jun 1, 2009 12:08:56 GMT
Never got the feeling that Shuta was intended as a lead character. He doesn't get enough solo-screen time in the first few episodes to define him in that way. I do agree that Masterforce started out as very much an ensemble show. Whether the transition to making Ginrai the lead was intended from the beginning I am not sure. Given the fact that the show makes several transitions in terms of theme and story over the course of its run I do wonder if it wasn't always intended.
I think the stronger structuring of Masterforce is perhaps a result of them looking a bit further afield for a lead showrunner on this show. By going a little further afield they seem to have come up trumps with someone who views it as a chance to do some long form story-telling first, and work the toy advertisement around that. Rather than the bittier episodic format of Headmasters
Karl
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 3, 2009 17:01:49 GMT
Episode 2: The Decepticons' Fearsome Manhunt!
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 3, 2009 20:39:42 GMT
I want to know which of the Pretender Monsters was up all night knitting those Decepticon jumpers for the zombies.
And their base is pretty damn nightmarish!
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Jun 3, 2009 21:15:49 GMT
“The Destrons' Fearsome Manhunt†continues proceedings in very fine style indeed. There is quite a lot going on in this episode – not least the fact that the Destron's put a two-pronged plan into operation and score a certain degree of success with one fork of their plans. In the very best tradition of construction this episode builds on what was established in the opening episode. It is clear that this is very much more of a structured series than was the case with previous shows. Both story threads and ideas continue forward into this episode, whilst new threads are woven that seem destined to carry onto into future episodes. The main plot thread is very much a continuation of the Destrons' terror tactics from the opening episode, but recast not as a plan to draw out the Cybertrons perse but with striking terror into the hearts of Earth's population as a goal in itself. It feels as if the Destron's are attempting to regain the position of being feared as supernatural forces of evil. Indeed, there is something rather creepy about the Destrons at this point. Their initial plan to raise an army of corpses to terrorise the humans isn't pitched as the work of a clever machine that they have invented. Rather the ability to do this almost seems some sinister supernatural power innately possessed by one of the Pretenders. Coupled with the presence of a mysterious object in the Destron base which they seem almost to venerate (not that we are given much of an idea of what it might be at this point, other than the Destron's kneeling and chanting at it) creates a rather different feel to proceedings than a straightforward “evil alien robots†set-up. Mind you, the fact that their base is a cave-like structure that could easily be in keeping with most peoples idea of a netherworld goes along way in that direction as well. The description of the Cybertron Pretenders “sealing away†their Destron foes is also very in keeping with this more mystical feel to them. The Destron plan also has the advantage of being decidely creepy. Their army of the dead are classic zombies. Slow, lumbering but tirelessly determined and very difficult to dissuade – heck, they prove to be quite distinctly bulletproof after all. If that isn't enough the Destron's backup plan is to start brainwashing live humans into a mindless army of destruction. What perhaps makes it more unnerving is that at no point do they lapse into “and then we will steal all the Energon Cubes we want. Bwahahahaha!â€. The exact reasons that the Destron's want people to be terrified go unspoken, and it is often the things that we don't know that put us most on edge. What does strike me about Masterforce is just how much it manages to fit into a twenty-five minute episode. Many shows would be quite satisfied with the “Army of Destruction†plot, but Masterforce has time for a second front to the Destron's plan. From watching the first episode one would perhaps have been forgiven for thinking that the Space Research Centre would become the defacto “home base†for the series, and that Shuta's father would become a part of the supporting cast. The second episode is quite to disabuse us of this notion in rather direct fashion. The Destron's destruction of the Research Centre, and the death of Shuta's father is effective, perhaps, for its sheer banality. There is no complicated scheme to sneak into the base, no invisibility spray. Instead one of the Destron's just waits until Hawk heads out to thwart the A-plot, and then turns a couple of Seacons lose to pound the facility to rubble. The simple, brutal directness of this approach is very effective and underlines once again the fact that these Destron's are a credible threat. (Although it has to be said that the Lobclaws in particular do demonstrate their clear mook credentials when fighting Hawk. They are very much angling to be the Imperial Stormtroopers of the production). The death of Shuta's father is also quite effective for similar reasons. It isn't particularly heroic – he is in effect simply killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time – but it works very well in context. I actually quite like his last scene where he does his duty as a father and gives Shuta the key – by implication saying that it is time for Shuta to become a man.If the character had remained alive it is likely he would never have amounted to much more than a fairly stock supporting character. By killing him off it lays the seeds for future development of Shuta as a character and I think serves the overall narrative very well. It also allows a bit of foreshadowing too, as the Proffessor suggests to Hawk that to oppose the Destron Pretenders it might be necessary to use “themâ€. But what are†theyâ€? The show isn't ready to tell us yet. This may be rather unsubtle foreshadowing but it is another example of Masterforce's commitment to longer-form storytelling. It serves us up notice that we are not always going to get every thing explained in a single episode. Things will become clear in good time, but that time won't always be now. Of course, I mustn't forget that this episode also serves to introduce a new regular character. Prince Cab, heir to the throne of the Karin Islands, is..... well, to put none to fine a point on it a stereotype. Living close to nature, spurning civilised culture and technology, in his animal skin clothes and his woven house he is pretty much the definition of the stereotypical japanese view of the population of the pacific island chains. (In many ways it is the equivalent of the Western stereotype of the Noble Savage of Africa). Fortunately for Cab, and the writers, I am prepared to overlook it as he works nicely as a character alongside Shuta. Whereas Shuta is brave enough to want to come along with the Cybertrons but smart enough to realise the wisdom of running away from a Seacon many times your size, Cab is a different kettle of fish. His courage is matched by his stubbornness, and it leads to him trying to pick fights that simply aren't wise. The similarities and contrasts between Shuta and Cab, and their slightly prickly interaction in the episode make both characters a bit more interesting than they might have been on their own. Also, Cab brings along with him a rather fantastic pet armadillo who, like all armadillos possesses the power to transform in his own right – which wins him a few bonus points with me. I mentioned Cab's courage earlier, and this is one of the continuing themes that runs through from the first episode. Hawk is dead-set against putting Shuta in harms way against the Destrons, a reasonable position. But faced with Shuta's insistence that he has to face the Destrons head-on – the same courage in the face of terrible threat that Hawk implied had impressed the Cybertrons in Earth's prehistory – Hawk backs down. In a similar fashion it is plain that it is Cab's courage in facing off against the Destrons, and later in escaping from captivity just as the Cybertrons are arriving to attempt a rescue that motivates Hawk's offer for Cab to return to Japan with them. His words in the first episode about finding something noble and brave in humanity that he respects are clearly far from empty. “The Destrons' Fearsome Manhunt†is a good, solid follow-up to the opening episode. It builds on the themes already introduced and sets in motion some plot strands that lead us on into episodes to come whilst at the same time serving up the occassional unexpectedly grim moment. Rewatching it I find it does a very good job of drawing me further into the series – what secret “they†are the Professer and Hawk refering to? What is the strange glowing, fluxing ball of light that the Destrons almost seem to worship? All are the sort of questions that would make you want to see the next episode and find out a little bit more about what is going on. A good second episode that keeps up the momentum that the opener had established and starts to erect a bit of structure on the solid foundations.
And the trailer for next week promises a mid-air hijacking and deering-do on the wing of a Jumbo Jet! Exciting stuff!
Karl
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 10, 2009 18:01:32 GMT
Episode 3: Kidnapping?! The Targeted Jumbo Jet!
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 10, 2009 18:52:09 GMT
At 9:40:
Submarauder: "Listen! The Nobel-prize-winning biologist, Professor Blanieux of the Republic of Mont Porte is needed for our experiments at any cost!"
Bomb-Burst: "I know! I don't need you to explain it to me!"
Submaruader: "I wasn't. I was just giving the plot to the viewers."
At 7:45 on the second video, _that_ music kicks in, which generally means some Seacons are about to get their clocks cleaned.
And Minerva wraps those two boys around her little finger.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2009 19:42:09 GMT
Interesting. The pilot calls the zombie air stewardess a bitch and then Minerva says that Cab and Shuta were very energetic inside the plane. I wonder what she meant by that?
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Post by legios on Jun 15, 2009 20:26:24 GMT
I had a longer version of the following post that I was working on during Wednesday evening, but various events sidetracked me and I did not manage to get back to it. I do not, however, wish to allow the episode to pass unremarked so I shall be brief. (Or at least, my version of brief...)
"Kidnapping?! The Targeted Jumbo Jet"
This is an episode that amongst other goals sets out to introduce a further member of the regular cast of our heroes. In this case it is Minerva, the first female regular we have seen in the show so far. Another young person, of a similar age to Cab and Shuta, Minerva is - as far as I am concerned - an excellent addition to the cast. Her introduction changes the dynamic between Cab and Shuta, focusing their characters a bit by giving them something to compete over - and watching them trip over each other trying to make a good impression makes for some excellent comic relief. Minerva isn't a particularly developed charater in her own right, but that same observation could be made of the other two as well. Cab, Shuta and Minerva are characters that work well with something to bounce off, so the three of them together are far more entertaining than any of them separately.
Speaking of comic relief, we get a bit of that from the Destrons this week. Their plan - hijack every airliner that the biologist they are searching for might be on isn't perhaps the most efficient method they could use, and this is before one of them takes it into his head that he should explain the plan to his colleague... who is the one who thought it up in the first place....... Still, for all that the Destrons are still focussed on causing chaos and fear amongst humanity - this time picking on Rome and starting their army of Destroids off by levelling the Trevi Fountain. They certainly have some impressive taste in picking a famous spot to start demolishing the city. If they wanted plenty of people to see it and be frightened then they picked fairly well.
It is interesting to note that Hawk didn't really seem to muster that much of a serious objection to Cab and Shuta tagging along - especially when they declared that they needed to face the Destrons directly. Almost as if he was swayed by that expression of courage, as their courage is somehow important to him. We will come back to this in due course however....
And as Martin observes, the Seacon's are well and truly ensconsed in their ecological niche as mooks. When the "hero" theme starts up in an animated show it almost invariably means that the heroes are going to start laying down some serious hurt, but normally this comes after the mooks have at least tried to get their licks in. In this episode the Seacons don't even bother to turn up until the "hero" music starts playing - almost as if they are fully resigned to their role in the show, and know that there isn't any point in even trying to do any damage.
And on an aeroplane-nerd note - despite the title no Jumbo Jets are harmed or threatened in the course of this episode. Several large airliners suffer varying degrees of unfortunate fates, but not one of them is in fact a 747....
Karl
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 17, 2009 21:44:18 GMT
Agh! I forgot to watch episode 4 today!
-Ralph
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