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Post by Toph on Jul 16, 2015 19:57:58 GMT
I still want greymonlock.
I always felt Swoop and Sludge never got made because the molds were no longer viable.
All this time, we've never seen samples, when we've seen a physical sample of everything else.
Grimlock may have also bitten the dust after the three runs it got, and was no longer viable for Greymonlock.
(Though I'm still not completely convinced that grimmy is the real deal. It really is waaaaay too Greymon. Even the secondary robot colors line up to the Grey digivolution line)
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Post by Pinwig on Jul 16, 2015 20:03:19 GMT
How in the name of Bonaparte's Balls are those even remotely considered a Good Thing?
It makes me want to jump out of a window.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 16, 2015 20:20:26 GMT
I still want greymonlock. I always felt Swoop and Sludge never got made because the molds were no longer viable. All this time, we've never seen samples, when we've seen a physical sample of everything else. Grimlock may have also bitten the dust after the three runs it got, and was no longer viable for Greymonlock. (Though I'm still not completely convinced that grimmy is the real deal. It really is waaaaay too Greymon. Even the secondary robot colors line up to the Grey digivolution line) Grimlock had had at least FOUR runs by this point: 1) Diaclone 2) 1985 G1 3) Classics/Japanese Reissues/China (thought to be one and the same) 4) G2 (and it gets three goes there in different colours!) |
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Post by Toph on Jul 16, 2015 20:32:59 GMT
I was only referring to G2. The G1 colors, blue, and teal.
That's a lot of sudden use for a mold that hadn't been touched in ten years
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Post by Toph on Jul 16, 2015 20:38:17 GMT
It was 93 the year of Jurassic Park, how the hell did these not get made. Tiger Stripe reminds me a bit of Dinobot. I'm assuming for the same reasons Dinobots were barely touched last year during the year of THEIR OWN MOVIE (according to hasbro and studio adverts), nor this year, during another Jurassic Park movie year. Because the TF team has it in their heads kids don't like dinosaurs. I would think if there were ANY year to get a full classics Dinobots range, it would be 2014 or 2015. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 16, 2015 20:39:32 GMT
3 years. The Chinese run (and it's other uses) was done c1990, possibly as late as 92 for the Mailaways
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Post by Toph on Jul 16, 2015 23:26:28 GMT
G2 coloring:
Generation 2 was a product of it's time, for better or worse.
It also tends to get a bad wrap based on a few extreme examples. It's like judging all actionmasters based on Thundercracker.
Now, I don't honestly understand WHAT the thought process was in nineties colorschemes, but G2 was hardly alone. Many/most toylines of the time are very similar.
But there is definitely a rhyme and reason in the actual colors on the transformers. There is method to the madness. there are rules to follow. And FP seldom ever follows these rules, which is why I always say that they don't get it.
(Likewise, Victorion does not follow any of these rules, so saying she's very g2 is just wrong. )
It's a huge mistake to think that the only marker of G2 is gaudy colorschemes, because that couldn't be further from the truth. Most G2 had very tasteful colorschemes. They were just different from what people are used to.
So let's get onto the various things that makes G2:
The two biggest signatures of the line are gaudy decos, and character inappropriate alt modes.
Followed by decos that are simply different than what we were accustomed to for ten years. As such many people have deemed black to be the most neon of all colors!
Now the signature for G2 decoes is contrast. This is why it stands out so much is it has the sharpest contrast of any TF line. The toy usually starts with a very dark base: black, navy, or indigo. I'll choose Indigo for this example:
We start with Indigo as our base color, then match it with a color that you wouldn't ordinarily put with it. Usually lighter. Teal.
Follow that with a color that contrasts extremely sharply: red. But not JUST red, it's not quite a normal red, either. Mixed lightly with Magenta or rhodamine. Then throw in a sensible dark color that helps tie it all together. Black.
I just described Dreadwing. Dreadwing IMO should be the poster child for a G2 deco. It's gaudy, but somehow works. It's also atypical for early nineties color schemes.
This isn't ALL G2, though. Remember when I said that gaudy colors are actually the exception to G2?
Yeah, there are other factors. Quite often, most guys had very reasonable decos. But they usually had something extra that really pushed it into the zany.
Sideswipe- he had all the same colors as g1, just inverted the red and black. As a result, he was quite classy. However, he came with really weird decals. Bright green in color that contrasted sharply on the black, with his name all over them. Incase everyone forgot who he is.
Jazz is exactly the same as G1, except instead of his racing stripes and martini decals, he now has music themed decals. (Which honestly make a lot of sense)
Megatron- Tank mode, which is perfect for Megs? Check. Green color? You don't see green tanks, but it's not a terrible choice. Well. It wouldn't be G2 if we just left it here. It needs camouflage. But what color? I know! PURPLE! Yeah! That'll blend in anywhere!
Laserrod Optimus Prime is the greatest example of G2 absurdity there ever was.
The ultimate Optimus toy. Almost perfect in every way. Very reasonable deco. He could fit in with any other era.
Except.
On his trailer is is his name in big letters. And a picture of him BURNING DOWN A FRIGGIN' FOREST. WTF?!?
Is there ANYTHING that screams nineties MORE than Rob Liefeld styled art of our hero with giant flame throwers committing a villainous act of pointless destruction?!? No. There is not.
Now, the other factor in G2: hasbro was just starting to do repaints. And they were ALSO just starting to learn to keep certain characters on the shelves. But, this was all very new territory, and they hadn't cracked the science or art of it, yet.
Hence we now start to see characters show up in very inappropriate alt modes, with robots who look nothing like them, and in colors that do not mean anything to them.
Granted, most of these did not make it out. But they exist, none the less. And if someone handed the toy to you, you'd never guess that's who it was.
The best examples of these are General Optimus Prime, and Sargent Hound. A dump truck, and a front end loader. In military camo. Because why not?
This is why I say the newest botcon Gen. optimus misses the mark, because it's too reasonable. A character named General Prime, as a camoed armored car actually makes makes sense.
ATB Megatron and Starscream were reasonable in concept, but the robot modes looked nothing like the characters, and the decoes did not read as them. There was nothing about them that read Megatron or Starscream.
Laserbike Jazz and Soundwave would have also suffered this, as well.
As for the dinobots? Well, this was when pop culture was finally starting to embrace the idea that dinosaurs weren't just giant boringly grey creatures. Blue, Red, and Green made a lot of sense. Maybe not so much on the individuals chosen. Red seems to make the most sense on Grimlock (he had very little red in his primary robot deco), while as I said elsewhere that Green is a great color for a stegosaur, and Slag would have been smashing as a blue triceratops.
But, it is what it is, and wouldn't be G2 any other way. That said, while not perfect they are reasonable colors on them.
I'm coming down from a mild anxiety attack as I wrote this (it's helped), so I'm sure it's not as legible as I'd like it to be.
But I hope this helps some understand that there is method to the madness of G2.
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kayevcee
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
The Weather Wizard
Posts: 5,527
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Post by kayevcee on Jul 16, 2015 23:37:53 GMT
Didn't the Dinobots get reissued as mailaways in Japan round about Battlestars/Operation Combination period? I know they did Superion and the Insecticons.
-Nick
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 17, 2015 1:24:43 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 17, 2015 12:09:49 GMT
Indeed it does.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 17, 2015 16:36:24 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 17, 2015 16:37:57 GMT
Apart from the 3 Dinobots, Mirage, Yellow Sideswipe, the desert camo jet and Measor/Defensor are there any other unreleased G1 recolours from G2?
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 17, 2015 16:42:04 GMT
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kayevcee
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
The Weather Wizard
Posts: 5,527
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Post by kayevcee on Jul 17, 2015 16:42:58 GMT
Isn't that enough?
I immediately thought of the Megatron/Starscream stealth bomber but it debuted in G2. Same deal with the two Autorollers that finally showed up in Beast Wars Second. Man, they really ditched G2 in a hurry, didn't they? Sales at the time must have been devastating (no pun intended).
-Nick
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 17, 2015 16:46:24 GMT
For cancelled G2 toys there's also the Bike, Autoroller & Combat Hero repaints plus what became the Machine Wars Flipchangers and a number of GoBots some of which surfaced as new Spychangers in RID.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 17, 2015 16:48:18 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 17, 2015 16:55:21 GMT
If only he was real.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 17, 2015 16:55:15 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 17, 2015 19:42:34 GMT
I had no idea mock-ups existed! THE GLORY THE GLORY. -Ralph |
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Post by Toph on Jul 17, 2015 23:33:58 GMT
Thanks for trying to make sense of my ramblings.
One thing I forgot, and I think this is why G2 fans love it so much.
There is a humor in it. The unintended absurdity of a lot of G2 is just hilarious. From everything that I mentioned, right down to the comic that's a virtual love letter to Rob Liefeld. Terrible, disproportioned and absurdly gritty art that proudly declares "THIS IS NOT YOUR FATHER'S AUTOBOT" dispite the fact that those who were kids during G1, ARE STILL KIDS NOW BECAUSE G1 WAS TWO YEARS AGO.
Then the guns. Ooooh the guns. Cable was brand new, and for some reason the comics world had decreed that Rob Liefeld was the greatest comic artist that had ever existed, and will ever exist (this is not an exaggeration. At that time, everyone really did think that). So everything had to have these BFGs, and who could have the biggest BFGs? Giant alien robots.
Furman, to his credit tried to present a decent story line, which ended up getting mowed down before it even began. They were cancelled before issue one was even finished. (Jhiaxus's name is a commentary on this. It's literally a pun that says "Gee, axe us already"). He tried to present a darker and more mature story as the primary reader would likely be teenagers who grew up on the original comics. But a lot of that ended up being burried by, or adding to the insane levels of guns and grit of the art. A decision by Marvel, as they were so enamored by Derrick Yanneger's art that they forced (the significantly better) Manny Galen to draw just like him. Furman just seemed to run out of fucks to give.
So, while I'm honestly not certain about this statement because I can't speak for everyone... It's been my experiance from my own love, and from everyone I've talked to, that G2 fans seem to love it for it's unintended humor.
Optimus Prime razing a forest with flamethrowers.
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Post by Pinwig on Jul 18, 2015 10:49:56 GMT
Do you know I'd never read it like that. I never did understand the 'Not your father's Autobot' line for the reasons you give, beyond them trying to differentiate this new G2 from the original line, in that this new era was supposed to be tougher and more grown up. One of my strongest memories of reading the G2 comic originally was one of the first panels in the first issue where there was a bunch of Autobots talking about Decepticons opening warp gates, or jump gates or something like that and the energy in the story was frantic, the language more sci-fi, and the edge more adult. It felt like characters might die, things might change, it was much punchier. My copies aren't to hand at the moment so can't check the exact wording. I'd never thought about it having a tongue in cheek comedy element, despite Jhiaxus's name.
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 18, 2015 16:17:56 GMT
I agree that G2 in toys and media did have a lovely sense of the absurd, sometimes unintentionally (the astounding Official G2 Annual for instance). The UK comic wasn't bad if brief.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jul 18, 2015 18:38:04 GMT
I love G2.
The comic especially, the toys are gloriously mental and inventive and it's a shame the line didn't last long enough. Still too many people that think articulation began in the Beast era.
Regards the comic, it is very much a product of it's time and the EXTREME era of 90's comics, but not really Rob Liefeld.
Yaniger was a big horror fan and he'd just read Simon Bisley's ABC Warriors: The Black Hole and that, coupled with the toys was the big influences, as from the sounds of things he wasn't given the Universe book or old model sheets to use but was sent toys. It's why all the G2 genericons and Jhiaxus look more like Bisley than anything else. He even swipes one of Bisley's panels in Issue 1, the cheeky scamp.
Also, while Rob's art was terribly proportioned, I don't think you can say that for Yaniger's work. Yes aethestically it may not be to everyone's taste (it is mine) but he had the fundamentals down far stronger than Liefeld. Galan (who I also love) had major perspective issues at times, esp on the early issues, but I would say was far inferior to Yaniger.
As an aside at the time of G2, I'd have to say Jim Lee was far and away the golden boy of comics, Liefeld not far off but Jim Lee overshadowed him.
The UK G2 annual is of course the pinnacle of the absurd!
Andy
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Post by Llama God on Jul 22, 2015 23:16:13 GMT
Optimus Prime razing a forest with flamethrowers. And people complain that Bayverse Prime is just a raging psychopath... Oh dear salty Primus... are the live action movies... actually... a homage to G2? No. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 1, 2015 15:57:03 GMT
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Post by Pinwig on Nov 1, 2015 17:01:48 GMT
They just look like knock offs to me. I really don't get it.
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 1, 2015 17:42:00 GMT
Alas I can't see those photos.
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Nov 1, 2015 23:58:23 GMT
No Facebook log in required to see them.
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 2, 2015 14:11:18 GMT
I get a huge message right across the screen telling me I have to log in!
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Nov 2, 2015 21:10:38 GMT
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