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Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 28, 2013 23:38:36 GMT
No, that's your reading of it Matt, both Gavin and I have made it clear we don't see them as having gender at all.
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 29, 2013 8:20:57 GMT
I'm still struggling with the idea you would want or need to introduce a female robot for any other reason than fanboys. Well, hypothetically speaking, if you wanted to promote your toy line with a movie capitalising on the popularity of Star Wars, you might want to introduce a lone female character with buns on the side of her head, to go with your "young" hero, "old" mentor and whopping great Death Star. Martin PS Questions to cause havoc on the Internet: - Tracks was a sentient robot whose disguise mode was a human female driving a Corvette. (See Marvel US #14, 'Rock and Roll Out'), Then in 'Devastation Derby' he had switched to a man. WHAT DOES IT MEAN??? - If a Special Team is made up of three small robots of one gender, and a big one and a small one of another gender, WHAT IS THE GENDER OF THE GESTALT??? - If Guardian is Auntie's baby, WHO IS THE FATHER??? *runs* |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 29, 2013 12:51:30 GMT
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Post by legios on Dec 29, 2013 20:58:48 GMT
The poster that Furman has quoted in his blog post makes the point that i singularly failed to make in my earlier post - Arcee's trauma is not due to being labelled "female" in the sense of "femaleness" being in itself being traumatic. The trauma is due to having a categorisation imposed that the individual does not psychologically agree with. In human psychology there are similar numbers of examples of individuals identified as male who self-identify as female as there individuals identified as female who identify as male, and the psychological difficulties that both groups feel are strikingly similar (or at least, they where when i did my clinical psych element and I have not heard anything to make me think that has changed. The traumatic element is not about which category has been imposed on the individual, it is about the mismatch between the categorisation that they have been given and the category in which they self-identify.. Prior to Jhiaxus' experiment there were no such things as "genders" in Cybertronian life. The available categories were "Cyberttronian". Following his experiments there existed the categories of "Cybertronian" and "Female Cybertronian", to which Arcee was forcibly assigned. It didn't change Arcee's self-identification as "Cybertronian", and hence the resulting psychological trauma. It is not a comment on the particular terms which are used for the two groups, it is about being assigned to a fundamental classification which the individual does not feel they belong to. As to Track's Holo-avatar Martin... that isn't Track, it is just the baseball cap that happens to be part of Track's disguise on any given day :-) Karl |
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Post by legios on Dec 29, 2013 21:01:53 GMT
It was though. I mean, would the story have worked the same if it was about a Transformer who had been forcibly 'made male'? Yes. Because the story is about the trauma caused by forced misidentification, and that tends to be similar regardless on a psychological level. Karl |
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Post by blueshift on Dec 29, 2013 21:28:42 GMT
It was though. I mean, would the story have worked the same if it was about a Transformer who had been forcibly 'made male'? Yes. Because the story is about the trauma caused by forced misidentification, and that tends to be similar regardless on a psychological level. Karl I didn't mean if it was real, I meant as a work of fiction. No-one would take seriously a story about say, Prowl being forcibly made male as he is already 'functionally' male the audience (if not in fiction). It's a bit of a headscratcher why people are getting so worked up over this (and now Mr Furman too!). It feels like people are equating 'putting a character who looks like a girl but isn't because she's a robot' to 'putting in a robot who is LITERALLY a girl (whatever that means). It's tricker than it needs to be given Arcee's backstory means you can't just shove them in, but really, if you need an explanation just say "OH I HAVE BEEN UPGRADED WITH ETHERIC BEAM LOCATORS' and get on with it rather than feel the need for another 'female origin' or whatever's going on in that interview. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 29, 2013 21:55:15 GMT
But the point is the new writer has made it a point to basically damn well write in some genuine female character to make a point against her perception of a male dominated race (in universe) and comics industry (in the real world)... when err, there are neither males nor females in that race she is writing for, which makes her 'point' completely pointless in the publication she is writing for.
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Post by blueshift on Dec 29, 2013 22:01:57 GMT
But the point is the new writer has made it a point to basically damn well write in some genuine female character to make a point against her perception of a male dominated race (in universe) and comics industry (in the real world)... when err, there are neither males nor females in that race she is writing for, which makes her 'point' completely pointless in the publication she is writing for. Well the comic hasn't come out yet so we can't judge exactly what has/not happened. Also the character of Wingblade isn't there as some sort of point, it is because Hasbro made it as the 'fan design' (however loose that is) and so as per their contract IDW need to produce a pack-in comic for her and have run into the 'wait we clearly established there are no female Transformers in our continuity!' wall. Personally I would be happy if they never even mentioned why this was an issue, or just did a 'oh some robots got the X22 STREAMLINE UPGRADE' and move on with the actual story. The danger is when your continuity becomes a barrier to telling stories, so you are forced to tell stories about your own continuity because its stopping you from telling a story about what you want (a bit like X-Men, I guess). |
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Post by legios on Dec 29, 2013 22:17:42 GMT
EDIT: Never mind. Badly argued point deleted.
Karl
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 30, 2013 0:50:38 GMT
I'm still unclear who the father of Guardian is. I MUST KNOW.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Dec 30, 2013 9:36:41 GMT
Indeed! Clearly some terrible scandal is being concealed here!
Karl
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 30, 2013 12:19:39 GMT
Guardian's father... *is* Guardian.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 30, 2013 12:40:39 GMT
NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Dec 30, 2013 22:52:22 GMT
Wow Simon Furman's blog exploded with lots of bad internet arguing. Can someone just play the 'Hitler card' and stop all the weird arguments (and I genuinely am not sure what people are arguing over?)
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Post by legios on Dec 30, 2013 23:16:17 GMT
I shouldn't have read the comments section of Furman's blog. I really shouldn't have. My head aches now.
Karl
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 30, 2013 23:37:58 GMT
Hitler card? Sorry, I don't understand.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 31, 2013 0:20:14 GMT
Hitler card? Sorry, I don't understand. -Ralph Bringing in Nazis to the debate. The last hurrah of overlong and pointless internet discussions. Andy |
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Post by blueshift on Dec 31, 2013 0:22:29 GMT
Hitler card? Sorry, I don't understand. -Ralph Bringing in Nazis to the debate. The last hurrah of overlong and pointless internet discussions. Andy Yes, the theory is that every single internet argument eventually ends with a poor Hitler analogy so playing the Hitler card ends the argument prematurely. |
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 31, 2013 2:38:51 GMT
I want to say who cares? But apparently everyone does. hasbro are forcing a retcon upon the idw universe, so be it, I just want to know what constitutes female in a genderless race.
If I describe a transformer ill refer to them as a he in most cases, but as pointed out in the post simon quoted ships are usually referred to as she, most cars are too in my case. But I dont actually think they are female. As for character, I do tend to think of the ones voiced in cartoons as male, but for the ones that havent appeared on screen I honestly dont overly attach any kind of gender to them. There is a toughness and attitude to many of them that may seem more male than female, but they are also soldiers who have been fighting for millions of years. Male or female, human or cybertronian surviving extended combat is likely to produce tough characters.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 31, 2013 9:47:48 GMT
Poor Simon... However, I am tempted to frame his comments right at the top of his article on retconning, with which I entirely agree. But from 1989 to 2014, he's been a serial taker of "something firmly established as in-continuity (in the issue itself and plentiful collections)" and sayer of "‘oh wait a minute – we didn’t mean that, we meant this’".
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 31, 2013 10:13:40 GMT
*MOD VOICE*
Hello, everyone! I think there are several different topics here which are getting mangled with some wires crossing. Can we keep this thread on topic of the Wingblade comic itself and the opinions of the writer of it and Furman's reaction. Whether folk are for/against/don't care about female characters in Transformers is being spun off into a separate thread. Thanks.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 2, 2014 8:14:11 GMT
I've moved the posts back to this thread for you.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 2, 2014 11:47:00 GMT
I had moved them as they were off-topic. Can we PLEASE keep discussion of whether Transformers are male/female to the other thread, please. I'm looking this thread until Spotlight:Wingblade comes out to ease confusion! That way we won't get our wires crossed!
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 2, 2014 16:34:36 GMT
Aha! Fine, have movced the,m back and cut the discussion about them being in the wrong thread that prompted me to move them. Sorry!
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,057
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Post by primenova on Jan 25, 2014 23:14:28 GMT
Should we pick up WB series in same way for AHM/Drift series - ie only in the 50p bins & not pay £3 a issue? Some of the Beasthunters comics have not got many good reviews - some about the art but always goes back to poor writing & character development.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 6, 2014 18:50:38 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Mar 4, 2014 7:47:04 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Mar 19, 2014 21:15:41 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Mar 24, 2014 19:41:33 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 9, 2014 21:30:58 GMT
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