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Post by Toph on Jan 22, 2015 23:26:59 GMT
It isn't the simplifying that gets me with these. They're more complex than their CW counterparts, honestly.
It's that it's more or less like they blew their entire budget on the one steps, and three steps, which have no appeal to their target audiance. Leaving the mainline toys (warriors, legion, whatever else yet to be revealed) with nothing to work with. Shit resources. Terrible plastic, NO paint budget, halfassed engineering. Each one of them could do with more thought and effort into their design in general. And that has nothing to do with the step down in complexity.
I won't get into Hasbro making the SAME mistakes they made with hiring the prime designers, whom this go round show they have even LESS ideas as to what the hell they're doing. Bumblebee and Prime looked like shit before, but at least they LOOKED like they were a car and truck.
The downgrade in general quality is that's upsetting and maddening, for the prices they're charging. That has nothing to do with the simplification in the transformation.
Honestly, I think hasbro needs to clear house and get rid of everyone. They haven't had the slightest idea of what seems to appeal to kids since they cancelled their really successful Animated line. And if you can't make a line that appeals to both kids and collectors, in this market, then the entire brand will die. Because neither has the buying power to carry it alone.
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Jan 23, 2015 11:37:44 GMT
Hasbro are not doing it to insult the adult fans/collectors. I think we need to remember that Hasbro is a toy company first and foremost. I'm not entirely convinced a 7-10 year old really cares too much about the "feel" of the material of their toys. When die cast was filtered out from G1 toys, I don't think we all through a fit and told our parents to buy us something else.
And in terms of alt modes - were we there in 86 commenting on how weird the Cybertron forms were? Nope. We were there thinking "yeah, this is the toy of the guy on tv!". Galvatron did not look like any kind of tank, or realistic gun, but I definitely remember being jealous of my brother who had it (until I got Metroplex).
I don't think the same kids care too much about clever engineering either and if anything this has been a detriment to them as toys recently. Dare I mention RotF Prime?
If you don't like the toys - don't buy them! It really is that simple. If sales fall, Hasbro is a large enough company to weather a few years of poor sales and re-evaluate the brand.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 23, 2015 12:39:45 GMT
When I was a kid I most definitely could tell the difference between cheap-feeling toys and well made ones. My issue with RID (and AOE mostly) isn't that they are kids toys (all Transformers are for children) but that they are crap kids toys vastly overpriced. Give the kids pish and they won't want any more which may be why AOE died at retail. It will be quite interesting to see how RID and CW sell!
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Jan 23, 2015 16:22:33 GMT
And in terms of alt modes - were we there in 86 commenting on how weird the Cybertron forms were? Nope. We were there thinking "yeah, this is the toy of the guy on tv!". Galvatron did not look like any kind of tank, or realistic gun, but I definitely remember being jealous of my brother who had it (until I got Metroplex). The TV? My exposure to The Transformers, after the toys, was the comic. I don't remember the cartoon being on the television at times when I could watch it. But even there I remember thinking that the Head and Target -Masters were generally equipped with alt-modes which might have passed muster on Nebulos, but utterly failed to disguise them on Earth. Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge got a pass, they were from the future and sufficiently arrogant not to feel the need to hide. But the rest did stick out to me as odd. At eleven - twelve years old these sorts of things did tend to attract my scrutiny. I also did notice that the newer toys didn't contain metal, and that they were more limited than some of the previous toys. It was noticeable when they didn't have elbows and things, because it made it harder for the toys to fight each other hand to hand because they couldn't throw proper punches for example. Karl |
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Post by Toph on Jan 23, 2015 16:51:06 GMT
When I was a kid I most definitely could tell the difference between cheap-feeling toys and well made ones. My issue with RID (and AOE mostly) isn't that they are kids toys (all Transformers are for children) but that they are crap kids toys vastly overpriced. Give the kids pish and they won't want any more which may be why AOE died at retail. It will be quite interesting to see how RID and CW sell! -Ralph Agreed. You can't even easily tell the "main" toys apart from the tree step and one steps and such ment for the littlest kids. Show an eight year old a see of these ultra simple "crap" (nicer than he'd call it), while next to it are jets and cars that can combine to a giant robot with optimus prime, in cooler packaging, and they come with comic books... Which one would get he want more? |
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 26, 2015 0:12:56 GMT
I've just been exploring the app. That's all very polished and seems to work well. Basic roaming beatemup, nothing that will set the world on fire. But the scanning thing works, I unlocked my warrior Grimlock and used him in the game.
I'm sure it's been discussed but the character lists in the game give some idea of future toys because they're obviously in there to be unlocked. So Thunderhoof initially is a one step. I used his starter character to witness the awesome power of his transformation and indeed he is a moose-bot that turns into a tractor. If this is the only legacy that RiD leaves us with, it is enough.
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Jan 26, 2015 11:40:50 GMT
Respectfully disagree, kids will play with anything if it matches the media (cartoon or comic) that's been advertising it to them (obviously there is a cut off, but I think we're far from it now).
An added benefit is that in the last few years there have been so many toy classes within a single line, it must have been hell for parents. A child asking for Bumblebee must have often got a different one to the one they were after. By focusing the different lines on different toy classes, they've made it a lot easier for buyers.
And if a child is after the new RiD figures and upon seeing them decides to go for the more complex generations - they've actually been cross sold to the comic media at an age where they're pretty impressionable and may pick up some strong buying habits. Not bad thing for business or the brand.
Who knows what will happen with the current massive shift in oil price though. With production costs taking a shift, we may see more money available for development / production and a return to lower prices.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 26, 2015 13:05:25 GMT
Well I didn't play with just anything that matched media I liked when I was a kid but then perhaps I was strange. If I thought a toy looked rubbish I didn't want it. I'd just repurpose something else to pretend to be it with the use of imagination.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 26, 2015 14:06:10 GMT
I had a feeling this has been discussed, but I can't see a thread in the videogame section. So having scanned my Grimlock into the RiD app last night, I've now just done Strongarm too - but she's still in her packet. All the app does is recognise the pattern of red/white lines round the edge of the circle. It isn't a per toy individual thing as far as I can see, so I think you really could stand in TRU and scan the lot. You can also unlock the characters in game by earning energon, so not having the toy isn't a restriction. It's just a shortcut if you do.
I thought for a moment that the game might reveal upcoming toys, but comparing the list of unlockable characters to Phil's release list for RiD there isn't much more. Obviously down the line they can update the app to add more. For reference, what you could scan in if you had the toy:
Bumblebee: Hero, Warrior, Titan Hero, One-step, Legion, Titan Guardian
Optimus: Hero, Warrior, Titan Hero, Legion, Titan Guardian
Drift: Warrior
Fixit: none
Fracture: none
Grimlock: Hero, Warrior, One-step, Legion
Sideswipe: Titan Hero, One-step, Legion, Titan Guardian
Steeljaw: Warrior, Titan Hero, One-step, Legion, Titan Guardian
Strongarm: Warrior, One-step, Legion
Thunderhoof: One-step
Underbite: One-step
Not sure what the difference is between Hero, Titan Hero and Titan Guardian actually.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 29, 2015 17:23:53 GMT
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 30, 2015 20:42:38 GMT
These aren't what I'd hoped they'd be. The pictures made these look like a new Animated/Prime hybrid, but in terms of production they're not. If this was a 3P figure it would be slated. I do like the aesthetic. I'm looking at this Grimlock thinking, if you were an inch taller and had proper joints, better plastic and a little more articulation I could really dig you, but I just can't love this toy. What's most depressing of all is that I've got the collecting mentality so ingrained in me that I am still, despite all that, looking at these two thinking, yeah, but this is a new range! something you can collect! You could have the whole lot, wouldn't that be cool? I have *got* to get that out of my head. If I buy more of these I deserve locking up. Cuffs anyone? I knew this would happen. I tried soooo hard to keep away from the toy department in Sainsbury's this evening. I did. I knew it would be fatal. But I was drawn inexorably to the end of the aisle and found indeed, since last looking, RiD has arrived and the Warriors were two for £20. I could not physically stop myself putting Steeljaw and Bumblebee in the basket. This hobby is just lethal. |
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Post by legios on Jan 31, 2015 14:07:14 GMT
*takes zip-tie from his webbing* Securing target, prep for extraction! :-)
I am grateful for having moved beyond the completist stage meself. I find I look at the RiD 2015 line and find it is not my thing. In fact the only one I have been tempted to pick up is Bumblebee, but fifteen quid is too much to pay to buy a sword and throw the robot away. (Why can't the after-market accessory makers make decent swords? Far too many of them are terribly silly).
Karl
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 31, 2015 23:27:49 GMT
Ugh. Opened Steeljaw and I'm much less impressed. The creativity is still there, but robot mode is a floppy mess. Even with a tail adding support it doesn't want to stand on shiny surfaces. In fairness on carpet I can get some decent poses out of it thanks to the double leg joint. The real problem is with the arms, bloody weird arms. The elbow joint is just odd. I have to pull the lower arm as I turn it or it jams. Theres going to be lots of broken armed Steeljaws hitting carboot sales this year. I experienced this pain tonight. Yes, I know I'm the only one to blame for doing this to myself, I knew what I was getting into, but Steeljaw is one of those instances where you can look at the toy and cry in frustration over what it could have been. I totally concur on the floppy mess description. This robot doesn't look like it's standing up straight even when its feet are flat on the floor and on a desk surface it just doesn't want to know. This is a brand new 2015 action figure, and it won't stand up. I see now the tail is there purely to help keep it up. It must be something to do with bipedal figures that have backward knee joints for the animal look. The designers have missed the point that outside the world of mecha, animals with that kind of knee joint have four legs, or massive massive feet. This is Beast Machines Cheetor all over again. The cries of frustration come from the fact that it's actually a very neat concept. The car looks great, the robot is definitely Transformers Wolverine (the claw weapon gives that away without doubt), and the transformation is cleaner than the Beast Hunters forebears (reminds me very much of the Commanders rather than the Deluxes actually). It should be a good toy. But as Jetty pointed out, this line is lacking in every aspect of production. This is 80% blue plastic, with a couple of grey bits and black tyres, a few black paint apps and the tiniest flashes of red and grey. It looks cheap and when you pick it up it feels cheap. The bits that are supposed to tab together barely hold in place, but the biggest crime is that the ball joints on the hips are so loose that as Bogotan says, despite the range of poseability possible with double jointed knees you can't do anything with them because he'll just do the splits. I've got him stood now, but just breathing on this will make it fall over. That to me is unforgivable. Kids are going to get incredibly frustrated with it because it just won't stay up. You right about the weird arms too. Am I right that they don't bend at the elbow, just twist? I don't want to push it too hard for fear of breaking it. So he has to have dead straight arms all the time? I thought we got past that point years ago. I was pondering why the Decepticons in this line have animal styled robot modes, yet turn into vehicles, and then I realised that's why this line is called Robots in Disguise. It's not a random choice, it's because they're playing up the disguise element of this again. Bumblebee's team are hunting Decepticons aren't they, so they're in hiding and need the Earth mode disguise. Having an alt mode actually serves a purpose again. Then the animal theme comes in to support the hunt idea. It's clever, I like that. It goes back to the original idea that the alt mode is as important as the robot mode - something which got lost down the years. |
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Post by Toph on Feb 1, 2015 0:48:17 GMT
He has working elbows. It's just not intuitive.
You have to actually pull on the lower arm to unlock and activate the elbow joint.
When you stop pulling on it, it relocks back into it's new position.
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 1, 2015 11:55:26 GMT
Ah! thanks for that. I see now that's what the first two transformation instructions are trying to show, but they're so small on the back of the card it's nigh on impossible to see. My word, I would never have tried that. I thought the end of that grey bit looked like a ratchet joint, but couldn't see how it would move.
So you have to yank the forearm down, and then the elbow joint doesn't bend anyway - it pushes against the plastic and looks like it's going to break. So then it needs pulling again to get it to bend, and then on release the ratchet part doesn't hold it very tight anyway and the forearm is loose, but angled. Mind you Grimlock's forearms are loose when bent too.
(I solved my earlier problem with that, I superglued the bit of plastic that popped out of the elbow back in and applied hairdryer heat to the stress marks to remove them. He's working now, but needed that tlc to get him back to what he should have been in the first place)
And then having dared to move STeeljaw from his standing position to do that he does the splits again five times trying to get him to stand up and I give up in frustration.
Like I said, had this been well made it would be brilliant. It's a great robot idea with a great car design, but the toy itself is just crap. KO quality.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 4, 2015 7:18:32 GMT
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Post by Llama God on Feb 4, 2015 10:32:18 GMT
Windblade? Windblade! (Da-na-na-na!)
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 4, 2015 12:15:52 GMT
I agree, Pinwig. I quite like the design aesthetic for the RID characters. It's the poor quality on the physical execution of the toys that annoys me. They do indeed look KO quality.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 4, 2015 19:05:48 GMT
All eyes on Toyfair next weekend then. The RiD line looks like it's going to be much wider reaching than it initially seemed. I'm really interested to know how Windblade features in all this. I just want a Thunderhoof. I don't care if he's just a one step. |
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Feb 11, 2015 12:24:05 GMT
This doesn't relate to RID apart from the end - Hasbro profits are up 20% in toys for 2014 when they started cheaping out on the toys. So its looks like the cheaper made toys are here to stay. Hasbro have looked at what other companies do with Powerrangers etc which are cheaply made stuff & have decided they are going to do that.
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 11, 2015 21:44:31 GMT
I see. Well that would account for the production quality of the RiD line then. Maybe they know they couldn't pull something like that with Generations because the target market would be in uproar.
I am still surprised how much the warriors retail for given what they are.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 13, 2015 16:19:06 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 13, 2015 17:16:37 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 13, 2015 17:55:09 GMT
Fucking hell.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 13, 2015 18:06:11 GMT
That is a big piece of crap.
Andy
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Post by legios on Feb 13, 2015 19:46:44 GMT
So an over-sized, fifty dollar (fifty quid over here I presume) Legend with noises. Hah. Yeah, no thank you.
Karl
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Post by Llama God on Feb 13, 2015 22:46:56 GMT
But the kids'll love it!
Provided that the parents can bring themselves to buy such a clearly over-priced lump of ridiculousness.
Which they won't.
Hurrah for Home Bargains!
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Post by Toph on Feb 14, 2015 14:35:31 GMT
Calling it a scaled up legend is being generous.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 14, 2015 18:50:26 GMT
41 seconds ago
Fixiit and Underbite in legion class wave 3
TFU.INFO @tfu_INFO 48s49 seconds ago
Sideswipe and Jazz remold from Bumblebee in Warrior wave 3
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 14, 2015 18:52:32 GMT
minicons are inspired by G1 Soundwave. #HasbroToyFair
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