X-Men

[Philip Ayres]

All of those have a place in there.... but I don't recognise the treasury edition.

Avengers annual 10 is first Rogue and what leads to Carol Danvers being with the team
MTU 100 is a young storm/black panther story and the first Karma.
Marvel Fanfare 1-4 is X-Men in the Savage Land
Bizarre Adventures is 3 solo tales, very worth having. Two are my fave X-Men solos ever.

[Jim]

I think it's great they're putting all those other things in there like the Panini pocket books, it makes a much more complete reading experience. Vol. 3 onwards will pretty much have to be a mix of NM and UXM to even make sense!

-Jim

[Philip Ayres]

I'm sure you'll join me in condeming how choice 4 beat 5 & 6 which are two all time classics

[Jim]

Having not read choice 4 I'm not sure I'm fully qualified to add my condemnation, but I have a pretty good feeling you're right. The problem with these kinds of poll is always how short people's memory is.

Is it pretty obvious what's going to be in the top 3? My brain seems to have seized up and I'm struggling to come up with candidates. We haven't had the Wolverine mini yet, have we?

-Jim

[Philip Ayres]

Here's what's been done: goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2013/08/21/50-greatest-x-family-stories-master-list/

Miller/Claremont Wolverine has to win, no question.

Hasn't been any Deadpool stuff yet so maybe the Spiderman issue?

Extant 80s mini series include Nightcrawler and Iceman. Not sure either quite has the all time legs to do it.....

Hmmm I think there could be some Sienkiwicz New Mutants coming

Demon Bear
The Cloak/Dagger story with the drugs
The Karma/Shadowking story


Personally I had two other New Mutants stories in mine: the one where the kids get split up in different futures and eventually get brought back together on the Starjammer by Xavier and Warlock confronts the Magus (47-51) and the story that introduces Cable.

Bizarre Adventures 27 is a possibility cos it's damm fine squishy.

[Philip Ayres]

X-Factor 87: where the team is interviewed by Doc Samson. Everyone loves that

[Jim]

The Wolverine mini probably ought to win, fine stuff.

Deadpool #11 is a good call, I'm slightly surprised not to have seen any Deadpool yet at all.

I would love to think Iceman would be there having just read it this week, but it strikes me as unlikely.

-Jim

[Jaymz]

Aug 29, 2013 13:59:41 GMT Philip Ayres said:

All of those have a place in there.... but I don't recognise the treasury edition.

Avengers annual 10 is first Rogue and what leads to Carol Danvers being with the team
MTU 100 is a young storm/black panther story and the first Karma.
Marvel fanfare 1-4 is X-Men in the Savage Land
Bizarre Adventures is 3 solo tales, very worth having. Two are my fave X-Men solos ever.

The Treasury issues are mostly reprints, but both have a new story which I suspect is what will be in the Omnibus. #26 has a Wolverine and Hercules story, #27 has an Angel story.

[Philip Ayres]

Aug 31, 2013 11:42:02 GMT Philip Ayres said:

I'm sure you'll join me in condeming how choice 4 beat 5 & 6 which are two all time classics

No arguments with 3-2-1, and 1 was so obvious it was untrue, but 4 still stinks.

[Philip Ayres]

(realised this week that No2 was missing from my X-Factor run at Mum's.... so ordered a copy off eBay for £1!

[jameso]

Deadpool wasn't eligible for the poll.

[Philip Ayres]

Oh my......

www.bleedingcool.com/2013/10/01/art-adams-for-art-adams-sake-x-men

Sooooooo good

[Andy Turnbull]

www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=18789

Preview for the impending Amazing X-Men 1 and the return of Nightcrawler.

Andy

[The Doctor]

Are you excited about the return of the non-entity?

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Nightcrawler isn't a non entity


New X-Factor line up

www.bleedingcool.com/2013/11/04/the-full-line-up-for-all-new-x-factor-1/

[The Doctor]

He worked in Excalibur. Otherwise: non-enitity.

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

Nov 4, 2013 19:47:16 GMT The Doctor said:

He worked in Excalibur. Otherwise: non-enitity.

-Ralph

Utter pish.

Andy

[The Doctor]

He's not a bad character. He's just sort of 'there'. I was never bothered if he was in a comic or not, except in Excalibur. I think that mix of characters made jim a but more interesting.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Courtesy of Comixology's 69p Marvel Now sale I have the first 5 issues of:

Uncanny Avengers
All New X-Men
Uncanny X-Men v3

The first two work, both far better than I thought they would. Pleased.

Mixing X-Men with Avengers is a decent idea especially in light of the recent troubles (X-Men vs Avengers still stinking out both Panini series) I can't wait to see what Magneto (Nazi Death Camp survivor) does when he finds out what the Red Skull is up to! Best thing that Remender's done to my eye.

All New's concept works far better than I thought it would: place the original X-Men in the present and look at how shocked they are.

Uncanny X-Men stinks but that's mainly because Cyclops is such a broken character at the moment. For goodness sake pull the "Possessed by Apocalypse since before Morrison" trap door and have done with it!

Elsewhere.....

Still reading both X-Force books. Prefer the Cable one which is working for me in a simple all action way. Sometimes that's all you want from a comic. Uncanny X-Force has left me a little flat but the last issue I read which did something with Spiral was superb. Couple of months worth of both sitting in my LCS waiting for me on Monday.

[Toph]

GodModEdit X-Men/Morrison discussion removed from . Best job I could do - sorry P

Apr 27, 2014 19:27:37 GMT blueshift said:

Apr 27, 2014 19:10:02 GMT Toph said:

or the established continuity they they're writing in (grant morrison's with his runs in Batman and X-Men. And worse yet, Shane McCarthy who had waaaay too much freedom)

Totally digressing but I love Morrison's runs on both of those so much. He realised that they need to tell new, exciting stories and not just mash the same points over and over again (and his stories were ridiculously continuity-centric too, just in ways you wouldn't expect).

Once he was off X-Men, it's rather shocking how everyone after him got out the bit RESET button on literally everything. I'm not familiar with the Batman scene at the moment. But it has a Transformer relation too, namely the dangerous fetishisation of the original core G1 mythos that everything needs to snap back to like an elastic band. Forgetting, of course, that back in the day these stories were new and developing organically.

My personal main gripe about morrison is he rocks the boat to rock the boat, and i think he gets a kick out of angering fans. He totally destroyed Magneto taking him soooo far away from character it wasn't even funny. Maggy was one of Marvel's most iconic villains, and morrison left him unusable. Emma Frost was extremely out of character from where she was up to that point. He erased the several years of character development she went through from The Phalanx Saga to the end of Generation X. There was no reason to change Beast into a Kilrathi, Or give Frost pointless new powers.

There's a difference in change to refreshen things, and changing things just because you can.
As for Batman, the whole Death of the Bat concept was ridiculous (his body was killed in a fight with Darkseid, which his soul had to be reincarnated through out time in all his ancestors until it got to modern times again. I'm off on some details, but that's the gist of my understanding). Then the less said about Damian Wayne, the better. He's no better than many fanfic mary-sues.

But this isn't the thread for this, so I've explained why I dislike Morrison's work, and I'll leave it at that.
On a side note, he's great when he's given his own sandbox to play in for either original concepts or AUs (like Allstars), or when he's given really obscure stuff (such as 52. His work on that was all kinds of fun, and didn't wreck things)

Apr 27, 2014 19:47:36 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Apr 27, 2014 19:27:37 GMT blueshift said:

Apr 27, 2014 19:10:02 GMT Toph said:

or the established continuity they they're writing in (grant morrison's with his runs in Batman and X-Men. And worse yet, Shane McCarthy who had waaaay too much freedom)

Totally digressing but I love Morrison's runs on both of those so much. He realised that they need to tell new, exciting stories and not just mash the same points over and over again (and his stories were ridiculously continuity-centric too, just in ways you wouldn't expect).

Once he was off X-Men, it's rather shocking how everyone after him got out the bit RESET button on literally everything. I'm not familiar with the Batman scene at the moment. But it has a Transformer relation too, namely the dangerous fetishisation of the original core G1 mythos that everything needs to snap back to like an elastic band. Forgetting, of course, that back in the day these stories were new and developing organically.

I love the Morrison X-Men stuff. Best X-Men in YEARS. And yet the only thing that's survived from it is the Cyclops/Emma relationship. And That's the bit I least liked. Oh well. That'll go WHEN they push the rest button on Cyclops - see numerous posts in the X-Men thread!

Apr 27, 2014 22:30:04 GMT Jim said:

I'm sure we're almost at the point of another new thread being spun off here, but I find Morrison to be one of the most overrated writers in comic history. He almost always leaves me cold, the main exception being chunks of his X-Men run (and I like the idea of Scott / Emma) - shame he threw away one of the best twists ever with his bizarre take on Magneto.

-Jim

[Andy Turnbull]

I love Grant Morrison's run on the X-Men. It was a shot in the arm the line needed. Chris Claremont's return to the books had stalled (which was a shame) and they were going nowhere.

I love what he did with Magneto in the book. Highlighting how the character was past it and was more inspirational when he was dead. I always felt it was a shame the X books didn't leave Magneto alone after Claremont's first exit in 1991. His last tale was a good ending to Magneto.

Loved the idea of secondary mutation, again not an original idea of his - look at Nightcrawler in shadows. Something Claremont did waay back and then Alan Davis did in Excalibur that no-one has touched since. He just ran with it and did something different with it.

As for him changing the Beast, well was there any need for the simian Hank McCoy to be made furry in the first place? Not really, but precedent has been set so it's hardly fair to single Morrison out for that. Beast has been simian, grey, blue, simian and blue again.

Andy

[blueshift]

Apr 28, 2014 22:19:39 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

As for him changing the Beast, well was there any need for the simian Hank McCoy to be made furry in the first place? Not really, but precedent has been set so it's hardly fair to single Morrison out for that. Beast has been simian, grey, blue, simian and blue again.

My dad is still genuinely upset that they changed Beast from this big guy into a blue ape.

[Jim]

Apr 28, 2014 22:19:39 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

I love Grant Morrison's run on the X-Men. It was a shot in the arm the line needed. Chris Claremont's return to the books had stalled (which was a shame) and they were going nowhere.

Agreed, it set up some good stuff and I liked the ideas of mutant ghettos (as further explored in District X, which was quite enjoyable) for example. It was a shame the reset button was hit so hard with House of M that they practically broke it.

I love what he did with Magneto in the book. Highlighting how the character was past it and was more inspirational when he was dead. I always felt it was a shame the X books didn't leave Magneto alone after Claremont's first exit in 1991. His last tale was a good ending to Magneto.

There are some things I like about it, in theory, but I couldn't suspend disbelief that the past-it, drug-addled Magneto had the capability to pull off such an elaborate master plan in the first place. There was this wonderful twist where I couldn't wait to see what happened next, and then he completely subverted it by making it hard to believe - I know people's milage varies on this, but it just nagged at me for the whole of that final arc (not counting the epilogue).

-Jim

[blueshift]

Don't forget that the real villain was Sublime who was the sentient virus/drug thing.

[Philip Ayres]

Phil still prefers the 70s/80s Beast but they've recently evolved the design again.

I liked the secondary mutations subplot. Was a good one.

[The Doctor]

I'm still amazed how quickly Marvel retconned Morrison's run. Within a month!

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

And yet the worst elements of Austen's run still stand

[Andy Turnbull]

Yup. The mind boggles.

Andy

[Philip Ayres]

More Austen madness

goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2014/05/22/things-that-turned-out-bad-mutants-cant-get-aids/

See also

comicsalliance.com/ask-chris-89-the-rise-and-fall-of-chuck-austen/

www.nerdtopiacast.com/2013/04/11/american-history-x-men-issue-15-all-new-different-morrison-casey-austen-charge/

[Andy Turnbull]

Read the first issue of the Cyclops ongoing by Greg Rucka. Fantastic stuff!

Andy