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Post by Toph on Feb 15, 2015 13:41:03 GMT
I'd just like to be the third person in this thread to mention ankle tilts. Oh, and that while not essential they are my favourite invention in terms of toy articulation in recent years. I actually love the fact this matters to me and I can mention this here in all seriousness and be taken seriously. They add a level of dynamism to leg posing that opens up all manner of possibilities. Ultra Magnus made my valentines day. I am in love. (Shhhhh. Don't tell Mrs Pinwig) Please keep in mind, I'm not down on ankle tilts, or people who like them. My comment was more about that there seems to be a large number of people that when you read a thread on other boards who seem to look at otherwise amazing toys with full articulation, point out that it's lacking one relatively superfluous point that doesn't have a huge impact on the toy (such as ankle tilts, or wrist swivels), and declare the whole toy to be a total failure because it lacks that one minimal thing. This always seemed rather petty, to me. (It's a different matter if it's more along the lines of "Wish this had ankle tilts, but oh well") I apologize if it seemed anything other. |
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 15, 2015 13:52:22 GMT
No apology necessary, I wasn't thinking that, I get your point totally. Sometimes I do think, oooooh, if only they'd put tilts in that would be perfect, but they're not a make or break in most cases. Below Voyager size there isn't much space to do it anyway.
I've noticed that some toys now have built in tilts to help posing, like Combiner Prime, he's in a fixed position but pre-tilted, which is cool. In other cases it's all a bit weird - like RiD Steeljaw - his feet are square to his legs, yet they have a pad underneath which is angled - so when the plastic under his feet is flat to the floor, it looks like his feet aren't flat. Rubbish toy.
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Post by Bogatan on Feb 15, 2015 14:34:08 GMT
I love articulated ankles, but am driven crazy by people who seem unable to appriciate a toy that doesnt feature them.
wrist articulation is even more annoying as it serves even less purpose unless you want your toys holding their guns in a really inept way and yet some people.
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 15, 2015 14:45:40 GMT
No, no appology necessary at all CJ ol' Cyber-pal! I agree that writing off a toy for lacking ankle tilts alone is indeed daft. I do value them. They're essentially on Masterpieces for sure.
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Post by Kingoji on Feb 15, 2015 14:49:08 GMT
In my experience, ankle-tilts are the first place toys lose rigidity. So I'm a bit meh on them.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 15, 2015 14:53:11 GMT
I love articulated ankles, but am driven crazy by people who seem unable to appriciate a toy that doesnt feature them. wrist articulation is even more annoying as it serves even less purpose unless you want your toys holding their guns in a really inept way and yet some people. Never bothered about wrist articulation. It's nice on an MP scale figure, but for anything else I can live without it. Andy |
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Post by legios on Feb 15, 2015 14:59:40 GMT
Never really bothered one way or another regarding ankle tilts on Transformers. It is nice when we get them, doesn't bother me much if we don't. I quite like when we get them on some toys that turn into aircraft - things like the thrust nozzles on MP Starscream being mobile makes it look like he has three- dimensional thrust vectoring, which helps yo explain some of his otherwise unlikely manuever capability in some of the fiction. But it doesn't bother me when that isn't there. Wrist Swivels are much handier, they are great for making characters look like they are about to stabilise a weapon, adjust a setting, check ammunition levels or whatever. But again, not necessary per-se on anything at the sub-sixty quid mark.
Karl
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 15, 2015 17:15:57 GMT
Personally I think a large ammount of leg articulation is over rated.
The majority of TF toys in robot mode will just stand there and as such what you really are looking for is a toy that won't fall over an collapse under it's own weight. Omega Prime and Supreme Cheetor I'm looking at you.
We moaned about the lack of Armada Megatron's hips when he came out but actually the toy is designed without them so he can take the weight of the tidal wave components.
Loads of people moan about the lack of posable legs on Armada Scavenger but I love the stomping gimmick. Proper toy.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 15, 2015 17:21:28 GMT
Pretty sure the sum total of people who love Armada Scavenger is 2. You and McFeely. He loves him as well.
You mad fools.
Andy
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 15, 2015 17:31:58 GMT
3. I do. I think he's great. Which, as Phil says, shows the divide between a toy and a posable display figure. Masterpiece you want articulated as possible because the pose is part of the display, but I love my original toys too.
G1 have got fack all posability, and Armada was a curious backwards step after some of the innovation that came in the Beast lines, but you can imagine the posability in them, and yes I've seen the customs that have taken the car robots and given them individual legs and knees. I'll still take a while when I've got my originals out to pose the arms and angle the weapons. There's not a lot else you can do with them, but it's still fun.
But Armada Scavenger's great. Just like the might of the all conquering and truly magnificent Omega Supreme. Bricks with personality. Scavenger's face is enough to show his character, he doesn't need posing. How many Transformers are there that are hand powered by a rubber band? he's brilliant!
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 15, 2015 17:36:36 GMT
Three of you! Madness!
I do agree a lot of the early TF's are bricks, but there is play value there. I think Armada while it may have stepped back in terms of the articulation of BM and RID brought back the play value, which I think we can all agree was missing from a lot of the toys around then.
Andy
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 15, 2015 17:42:56 GMT
Arms are a different matter entirely.
Your toy needs to be poseable there. It really annoyed me that somke G1 toys had no shoulder or elbow joints. My arms need to turn at the shoulders and bend at the elbow. These days I expect a bicep too and really there's no excuse for the lack of a wrist these days. Oddly I'm less fussed about an arm being able to raise out to the sides because I very seldom need to pose a toy like it's pretending to be a tightrope walker.
My one overall requirement is that they can hold their weapon, raise it up and the arm won't sag under the weight.
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Post by Toph on Feb 15, 2015 18:08:21 GMT
4 for Scavenger. I love that toy, and I feel he's greatly under appreciated. He's just all kinds of fun to play around with. Love him as an adult, and if I had him as a kid, he'd be one of my alltime favorites.
The cheaper/smaller a toy is, the more I'm willing to overlook lack of articulation. But there are certain things that are still essential.
For minicon, legend/legion, and spychangers, simple shoulder articulation is a necessity. He/she has to be able to raise and point his or her weapon. Anything past that is gravy.
Basics, scouts, commanders/legends tend to be in a neutral territory. I WANT shoulder, elbow, hip, and knee articulation. But given circumstances on a case by case, I'm more willing to understand skipping a point or two. But it has to be a really neat toy. Though like Beast Wars basics, I often don't understand why they simply don't have balljoints.
Deluxes, megas, and voyagers: Shoulders, Elbows, Knees, and Hips are mandatory. Though again, if a gimmick works well enough that sacrifices it, I can be persuaded. Armada Scavenger is a prime example of what's right, and so is Armada Megatron. Armada Hotshot failed, though. The trade off for him didn't work.
But I'm more likely to overlook leg articulation sacrifices over arms. And the more expensive a toy gets, the more necessary it is.
Generally,I usually don't frown on articulation greater than my four point mandatory, I just consider it to be bonus. And I won't condemn a toy because it doesn't have ankle tilts, wrist swivels, or bicep swivels, though in cases I may wish they had it.
There are cases I think too much articulation can hinder a toy, though. Marvel Legends, and Marvel Universe toys often hit this mark. Legends especially, as it's not uncommon for them to have three points in each foot alone. As a result, MLs often end up being extremely floppy messes, where DC Universe Classics are more conservative, but still have a wide range of articulation. The result is usually a much more solid and sturdy figure.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 15, 2015 18:40:59 GMT
Picking another older toy at random: Stalker
He can raise his arm at the shoulder and the elbow bends in.
All he needs is to have a Bicep swivel added and either a wrist swivel or have the fist hole resited and he'd have fab articulation in his arms.
We've spoken abvout how easy it would be to give Powermaster Optimus extra articulation before!
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 15, 2015 23:59:41 GMT
I want good-to-very good articulation, n'kay. I pay mucho meatballs for these figeroons and I freakin' well want my monkey's worth.
Good head articulation is vital.
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Post by Llama God on Feb 16, 2015 8:31:52 GMT
Yep. Good head articulation along with waist articulation is what I'm usually after. Just because a simple "twist the torso but keep the head and feet facing the same direction" (i.e. putting one shoulder first) can make a toy look a lot more dynamic than simple "face on". Which isn't dynamic.
But as with everyting, that all depends on the toy. The tiny Legends don't need it, and Fortress Maximus doesn't need it - they can look interesting in other ways.
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Post by Toph on Feb 16, 2015 15:24:53 GMT
Bringing up Fort Max makes a good point. Gen Metroplex I sorta feel he has too much articulation for his size and weight. The double knees in particular make him almost impossible to stand.
I fear Dev may be similar. Add to him the natural weakness of the knee joints being connector pieces.
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 16, 2015 21:23:51 GMT
My only articulation test for modern toy robots is: 'can they rub their tummy and pat their head at the same time?'. If they can do that they pass.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 16, 2015 22:34:37 GMT
What about the jawdan yoko-geri pose all the fan sites insist on putting figures into?
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Post by Llama God on Feb 16, 2015 23:56:25 GMT
My only articulation test for modern toy robots is: 'can they rub their tummy and pat their head at the same time?'. If they can do that they pass. can't do that. What does that say about me? Other than that I'm a rubbish robot toy. Which I already knew. Ignore me. |
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Post by Toph on Feb 17, 2015 0:10:29 GMT
What about the jawdan yoko-geri pose all the fan sites insist on putting figures into? I have never heard that name before. What pose is that? |
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 17, 2015 0:14:28 GMT
What about the jawdan yoko-geri pose all the fan sites insist on putting figures into? I have never heard that name before. What pose is that? Head height side-kick. They have them doing it all the time in figure pics. |
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Post by Toph on Feb 17, 2015 0:16:09 GMT
Thankie.
I don't ever look at galleries, so I've not noticed this.
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Post by legios on Feb 18, 2015 9:02:23 GMT
What about the jawdan yoko-geri pose all the fan sites insist on putting figures into? I find that quite a bizarre test to be honest, because that isn't just a matter of articulation - it is a matter of weight distribution, some things are not stable in that position simply because of where their centre of mass is. And there are lots of things that can't do that for good functional reasons, and they would be poor toys if they could to that - Valkyrie's cannot kick that high to the side because of the way their legs are designed, they couldn't do it in the show either for that matter so it seems like it would be an odd thing to want to do with them. Karl |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 18, 2015 9:05:51 GMT
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Post by legios on Feb 18, 2015 9:11:44 GMT
They don't look that good in photographs either. Those arms are just not...right.
Karl
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 18, 2015 11:39:58 GMT
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 18, 2015 19:31:36 GMT
Gods that Luke figure looks terrible!
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 18, 2015 20:28:13 GMT
That Luke frightens me.
-Ralph
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Post by freeestyle on Aug 15, 2016 21:56:15 GMT
Video at the end... Fans you asked for it we listened I believe I speak for the majority here.... Better hands and feet that are like computrons/victorions for menasor/superion/bruticus/defensor/grand Galvatronus/ betatron/ grand prime/ sky reign. |
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