|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 31, 2016 21:06:26 GMT
I wouldn't say JNT's mania wrecked everything.
I would say that you would have to say that the failings of that era can be shared between JNT and Eric Saward, who for my money is one of, if not the worst script-editor that the original series had.
Andy
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Oct 31, 2016 21:22:04 GMT
Aye, I'd certainly agree that the conflict between them is a major cause of the problems in the mid eighties, because once Cartmel comes in things settle very quickly, but I don't think Saward is necessarily a bad script editor or the root it. Where do we lay the blame for the constant churning up of the past in seasons 20-22, something that dented Colin Baker's chances of creating a unique identity? I also think the stunt casting of celebs was almost always wrong and that seemed to be founded in JNT's need for publicity.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Oct 31, 2016 21:27:04 GMT
Yet strangely, the RTD era had tons of throwbacks and references to past eras (even spawning a spin-off featuring a companion from the 70's as a lead) without anyone batting an eyelid yet 30 years later folk are still banging on about all the 'heavy continuity' of the 80's! Plenty of stunt casting there too.
There's not much to separate JNT's era from RTD's, really!
Let's also not forget that the general audience (ie most folk watching) neither know nor care if a reference to something in the past is from an actual episode or just made up on the spot.
-Ralph
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 31, 2016 21:30:27 GMT
Tbh the stunt-casting is not as bad as it's made out to be and I think a necessary evil. JNT could see the way the wind was blowing and post Davison there was clearly no appetite higher up at the BBC for Who to continue as is, but they also had no idea what else they wanted to do with it.
I think Saward is poor - any interview where he bemoans the scripts, if they didn't work then he should have been rewriting them, or telling the writers to go back and fix it. Look at how badly the wheels come off in Trial, with two of the stories falling by the wayside (not counting Bob's issues).
I think you can see that JNT and Cartmel were a good fit together and it would have been nice to get one more year out of them.
Andy
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Oct 31, 2016 21:58:48 GMT
I'm not banging on about anything, just offering an opinion. There's a huge amount to separate the JNT and RTD eras, but I'd take JNT over RTD any day. The problem with the mid-eighties revival stories is that they were relentless in the way they preached that 'this was all better in the past', which to be honest I'd include Ian Levine in the blame for as much as the other two. David Tennant's stories never did that. His Doctor also had a unique identity; Colin Baker was denied one until Trial because he was constantly overshadowed by big name past glories. There are only two stories in Season 22 that aren't trying to point out how marvellous the show was when your dad watched it, and both of those are top. That's why Trial is so much better, it allowed his character to breathe. Same writers as the previous season but with a different focus and it made a world of difference. His era should have been like that from the start.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 1, 2016 20:22:46 GMT
Well, The Visitation I found was the weakest I've seen so far. I found I liked the 5th Doctor immensely though. Even though I felt he was a bit snappy towards his companions. It's no wonder Tegan wants to leave. Not a bad story, the aliens looked pretty rubbish though. The highwayman, I forget his name, was brilliant. He and The Doctor worked well together. Just imagine him as a full-time companion! That'd be marvelous.
Next is -checks The Doc' List- Aztecs! Bit of black and white! AND MY FIRST TASTE OF THE FIRST DOCTOR! EVER! (apart from the Dalek movies, but they don't count....) I think I've seen the odd clip here and there, and I seem to remember the bit where you see a Dalek for the first time... BUT THIS MY FIRST PROPER 1ST DOCTORING!
Is Dodo in this one?
|
|
|
|
Post by blueshift on Nov 1, 2016 20:24:37 GMT
Well, The Visitation I found was the weakest I've seen so far. I loved the book, but I've owned it twice on dvd and I GENUINELY am not sure if I've watched it all the way through as I keep giving up. Is it the one Doctor Who story I have yet to watch, or did I watch it all and block it from my mind? I bought the re-release DVD at full price though. I'm a hardcore fan! |
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 1, 2016 20:25:58 GMT
Respect, Man!
|
|
|
|
Post by blueshift on Nov 1, 2016 20:26:19 GMT
No, Dodo isn't. It's the ORIGINAL TARDIS POWER TEAM of Ian, Barbara and Susan! |
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Nov 1, 2016 20:33:16 GMT
This will be interesting. Aztecs is not quite the hall of fame level the others have been so far, bar The Visitation.
The Tereleptils are a bit of a let down. The fact the costume design limits their arm movement is a bit of an own goal for a character that needs to use its hands.
One thing I do like about it is the way it subverts expectation by setting all those characters up at the start and then just killing them.
|
|
|
|
Post by blueshift on Nov 1, 2016 20:35:05 GMT
Aztecs is not quite the hall of fame level the others have been so far WHAT Do not listen to this man, he is talking insane gibberish!!!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 1, 2016 20:40:42 GMT
I'm with Pinwig. There's far better historicals than Aztecs, some of which actually exist. Marco Polo, Reign of Terror, Romans, Myth Makers and Smugglers.
|
|
|
|
Post by blueshift on Nov 1, 2016 20:44:30 GMT
I'm with Pinwig. There's far better historicals than Aztecs, some of which actually exist. Marco Polo, Reign of Terror, Romans, Myth Makers and Smugglers. Yes but out of those, only the Romans exists. And Aztecs is brilliant, don't you be hatin' |
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 1, 2016 20:49:06 GMT
No, Dodo isn't. It's the ORIGINAL TARDIS POWER TEAM of Ian, Barbara and Susan! Here we go... well, in five... just finishing off the pasta.... |
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Nov 1, 2016 20:52:40 GMT
I used to think The Aztecs was a brilliant story, but then watching it in context with the other stories from season one I changed my mind. Marco and Reign show it up a bit.
Phil is on the nail with those, five exceptionally good stories.
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 1, 2016 20:53:03 GMT
4/6 of Reign of Terror does and that's enough for me to see it wees on Aztecs from a great height.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Nov 1, 2016 21:09:56 GMT
This will be interesting. Aztecs is not quite the hall of fame level the others have been so far, bar The Visitation. . The Visitation is poo. Aztecs is Top 10 quality (even if it oddly loses something by being so crystal clear now). -Ralph |
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Nov 1, 2016 21:11:08 GMT
I'm with Pinwig. There's far better historicals than Aztecs, some of which actually exist. Marco Polo, Reign of Terror, Romans, Myth Makers and Smugglers. Polo is good, Reign is ok though the best stuff is in the missing episodes Romans is tops, Myth Makers is poo, Smugglers is ok though a bit forgettable. Aztecs towers over them all from a high height. -Ralph |
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Nov 1, 2016 21:12:10 GMT
I'm with Pinwig. There's far better historicals than Aztecs, some of which actually exist. Marco Polo, Reign of Terror, Romans, Myth Makers and Smugglers. Yes but out of those, only the Romans exists. And Aztecs is brilliant, don't you be hatin' But they exist. I've heard them! -Ralph |
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Nov 1, 2016 21:12:42 GMT
4/6 of Reign of Terror does and that's enough for me to see it wees on Aztecs from a great height. BAD PHIL! BAD! -Ralph |
|
|
|
Post by blueshift on Nov 1, 2016 21:13:32 GMT
And we all know that the best historical is The Gunfighters
(not even joking!!)
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 1, 2016 21:18:30 GMT
I stand by my opinion
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 1, 2016 21:20:23 GMT
This will be interesting. Aztecs is not quite the hall of fame level the others have been so far, bar The Visitation. . The Visitation is poo. Aztecs is Top 10 quality (even if it oddly loses something by being so crystal clear now). -Ralph Nothing in particular wrong with the Visitation. Aztecs would be lower 1/3 on my favourite stories list |
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 1, 2016 21:35:12 GMT
So far so good with Aztecs. Bit hard to watch... it's the black and white I think. I like the companions, esp Ian. Haven't quite got to grips with the First Doctor yet....
|
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 1, 2016 21:36:37 GMT
Huh, I had deja vu writing that last post....
|
|
|
|
Post by blueshift on Nov 1, 2016 21:36:49 GMT
So far so good with Aztecs. Bit hard to watch... it's the black and white I think. I like the companions, esp Ian. Haven't quite got to grips with the First Doctor yet.... Ian is basically the main character of the first season, the Doctor is part of the supporting cast |
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 1, 2016 21:43:43 GMT
Ian's got The Moves alright!
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 1, 2016 21:46:09 GMT
In all seriousness, if Shockprowl is wanting to watch some Classic Who, he can have any of the following for free if he pays for postage: Claws of Axos The Visitation Inferno The Five Doctors The Aztecs Spearhead from Space The Green Death The Caves of Androzani Remembrance of the Daleks The Robots of Death The Ark in Space Vengeance on Varos These are all DVDs which are outdated for me as I've got the new editions now Shouldn't there be a second Resurrection in there too? I can understand hanging on to Tomb.... Should have got Ian to watch Spearhead before Inferno! |
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 1, 2016 21:46:39 GMT
Cheating Aztec swine!
|
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Nov 1, 2016 21:47:27 GMT
And we all know that the best historical is The Gunfighters (not even joking!!) Last chance Saloon, there's a last chance saloon. *weeps* -Ralph |
|
