What's a Triplechanger?

[Toph]

Spun Off From The Titans Return Thread

---

You know, I remember when being a triplechanger used to mean something. Used to be something special, and highly unique.

[Philip Ayres]

Hasn't really been that since 1985!

[Toph]

I'd say quite a bit more recent than that.
There were only nine true triplechangers in G1 (Springer, Sandstorm, Broadside, Astrotrain, Blitzwing, Octane, Snapdragon, Apeface, Scorponok. The other cities are their city and battle modes are really just minor alterations of each other, and no one's ever counted the combiners though more recent ones do qualify IMO).
G2 had Dreadwing. Can't think of any others.
And Transmetals don't really count.
Triplechangers didn't start to become prominent until UT, and even then they were an exception over the rule.
Very few in the movie lines (none come to mind, but I'm sure there were a few)
One in Animated.
None in Aligned.
But in Generations over the last few years, it seems the Voyager class *must* be triplechangers.

[Philip Ayres]

Scramble City Leaders are tripple changers, cos they have base modes.

And that's a bit dismissive of Metroplex, Max, Scorponok, PM Prime etc ...

[Andy Turnbull]

Galvatron...

[Philip Ayres]

Overlord, Perceptor, BW Rampage, BW Depth Charge.....

[Bogatan]

Im with Jetty on this, I don't count base modes as triple changers. Or toys that break apart to make multiple vehicles, so no Duocons or Overlord.

A triplechanger is a robot that without major additions converts in to 2 distinctly different vehicle or beast modes (preferably quasi realistic in appearance). Non of this I'm a dragon but if you make me a bit flat I'll pretend Im a spaceship milarky.

Transmetals does get a little murky for me. Waspinator is a very decent effort at a triplechanger, but wasp to jet is a relatively small change and not really distinctly different enough for me. But its at least borderline. Cheetor is just a Cheetah or Cheetah with rockets.

Punch/Counterpunch theres a case for too, but I'll stick with my 2 vehicle modes (generally one ground one air) rather than 2 robots.

[Philip Ayres]

Dec 18, 2016 12:30:17 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Overlord, Perceptor, BW Rampage, BW Depth Charge.....

Sky Lynx

[Toph]

Dec 18, 2016 12:55:05 GMT Bogatan said:

Im with Jetty on this, I don't count base modes as triple changers. Or toys that break apart to make multiple vehicles, so no Duocons or Overlord.

A triplechanger is a robot that without major additions converts in to 2 distinctly different vehicle or beast modes (preferably quasi realistic in appearance). Non of this I'm a dragon but if you make me a bit flat I'll pretend Im a spaceship milarky.

Transmetals does get a little murky for me. Waspinator is a very decent effort at a triplechanger, but wasp to jet is a relatively small change and not really distinctly different enough for me. But its at least borderline. Cheetor is just a Cheetah or Cheetah with rockets.

Punch/Counterpunch theres a case for too, but I'll stick with my 2 vehicle modes (generally one ground one air) rather than 2 robots.

Oooo, I forgot about Punch/Counterpunch. That one's a bit murky, but a case could be made, either way. I'd tend to argue against, as the two robots are more or less just an variation of one another.
I DID completely forget about Doubledealer. He definitely counts.

But yeah, Transmetals are ninety percent "flip out wheels/rockets/wings" over an actual unique third mode. Even Rampage and Waspinator, who look the most different from their standard beast mode configurations are still basically just the beast mode with slight modification.

Of the citybots beyond Scorp (who does have three unique modes), Metroplex is the next closest. I'd concede an argument about him. But you can't tell me stretching Max's legs out and drawing them up qualifies as two completely unique alternate modes. That's like saying Cheetor is a proper jet just because you pulled some rockets out of his side.
Trypticon is more like Rampage. He looks a lot different in battlestation mode, but honestly it's not really more than a bit of a mild alteration to his existing form with guns stuck on.
As for the scramble torsos, wouldn't counting the base mode make them quadchangers? So no, they absolutely don't count in that case.
An argument could be made for the predacons over the scramble limbs. The predacons have genuine changes made to their configuration to go to limb mode, where are the scrambles are vehicles with fist/feet tacked on.

I don't think supermodes should count, so that rules out PMOP and Ultra Magnus in my book.

[Philip Ayres]

Dec 18, 2016 12:55:05 GMT Bogatan said:

Im with Jetty on this, I don't count base modes as triple changers. Or toys that break apart to make multiple vehicles, so no Duocons or Overlord.

Now I would count base modes, but that's up to how you account.

I wouldn't count the Duocons but I would count Overlord & Sky Lynx as Tripple changers. The separated modes are one mode between them

Overlord

Mode 1: Tank/Jet
Mode 2: Robot
Mode 3: Base

Modes 2 & 3 use all of the tank and all of the jet

Similarly for Sky Lynx

Mode 1: Dinobird/Lynx
Mode 2: Shuttle on Crawler
Mode 3: Sky Lynx

[Philip Ayres]

Base Modes count because .... well they're a mode.

Combined modes is a little harder but I'd argue that since part of a combined mode isn't a complete toy in itself then it doesn't if that makes sense.

[Benn]

Not all base modes for me. Metroplex and Fort Max, for example, are just two different bases, so in my head they aren't Triple Changers.

Scorponok I can kind of make a case for.

But in my head Triple Changers are only the six toys released under that name. Certainly a 'no' to the Transmetals.
Oddly, now I think about it, there is a difference in my head between Triple Changers and Transformers with three modes.

[blueshift]

in my head broadside is a quad changer as he also turned into a fish

[Bogatan]

Dec 18, 2016 17:01:20 GMT Benn said:

Not all base modes for me. Metroplex and Fort Max, for example, are just two different bases, so in my head they aren't Triple Changers.

Scorponok I can kind of make a case for.

But in my head Triple Changers are only the six toys released under that name. Certainly a 'no' to the Transmetals.
Oddly, now I think about it, there is a difference in my head between Triple Changers and Transformers with three modes.

I think thats how I came to my definition of Triplechanger. Despite lots of toys with 3 modes Hasbro only called 6 toys specifically triplechangers. And they all follow a pretty specific line.

*Robot mode
*Ground/Sea mode
*Air mode

and a bit looser
* vehicles more or less recognisably something you would see in the real world.

Toys that become bases dont count to me because vehicle are not bases and bases are not vehicles. I'd maybe cut them some slack if the base modes ever looked like a real thing, but Hasbro never opted for Robot Bases in Disguise which I think is a real shame, they should have stolen the transforming building from Big. Or taken some inspiration from M.A.S.K. and their base sets like hte Boulder Hill or even the little Billboard set.


Beyond those original 6 the only TFs I have ever associated with being triplechangers are Apeface and Snapdragon.

[Toph]

To me an alternate form qualifies if it's a fairly significant change from the previous forms and appearances, with no significant add ons*.
(*you can't clip on an external set of wings and nosecone to a car with no other significant changes, and call it a proper jet. This is why I feel Scramble torsos very murky, while CW torsos are much more definable as triplechangers.)

If you would not consider G1 Tracks a proper triplechanger because all he does is pull out wings from under the car, why then would you consider Fort Max, when all he does to change from city to battle platform is stretch out his legs? Or Skylynx, when all he does is combine two separate halves with no significant alteration? (CW Skylynx is much closer to being a proper triplechanger)

I would consider these all mode changes, but not proper alternate forms such as Octane, who goes from Robot, to Tanker Truck, to jumbo jet, or Doubledealer ho goes from robot, to missle truck, to buzzard. Or TR Alpha Trion, who goes from robot, to lion, to spaceship.

[Toph]

I also think there are triplechangers, and there are The Triplechangers.
A triplechanger is basically what I laid out above. A Triplechanger is one of the six members of the G1 subgroup.
And to me arguing that something isn't a triplechanger because they weren't a Triplechanger, is a little like arguing that Killerpunch or Bazooka aren't dinosaurs because they weren't Dinobots.

My whole premise here is entirely about triplechangers= tfs with three unique alternate forms. Not specifically about Triplechangers= the specific G1 subgroup.

[Bogatan]

Dec 18, 2016 17:26:26 GMT Bogatan said:

Beyond those original 6 the only TFs I have ever associated with being triplechangers are Apeface and Snapdragon.

Doubledealer too.

Sky Lynx sort of borderline: spaceshuttle - bird/lynx - winged Dinosaur thing. But the last one is basically the bird/lynx squashed together.

Was trying to think if any of the pretenders qualify. I don't think they do though.

Jetfire I suppose

[legios]

Dec 18, 2016 17:53:17 GMT Bogatan said:

Jetfire I suppose

Does it? I've not actually seen the instructions for the "The Transformers" Jetfire so I'm not sure if it had a called-out third mode. Whilst that toy is capable of assuming Gerwalk mode, this is a relic of its remoulding from a Valkyrie Fighter, I'm not sure if it was identified in a primary source as something _Jetfire_ could do. As far as I was aware it was only indicated as having "robot" and "'plane" modes. If it wasn't called out as an additional mode in the instructions I think that we would have to disqualify Jetfire from consideration (because if we included him nevertheless we would almost have to include things like Galaxy Force Dreadrock, who is physically capable of pulling off the same trick, but doesn't have it as an indicated mode. Or "The Transformers" Perceptor - where it is still possible to form the toys cannon mode, but to my knowledge this was never an official mode given to Perceptor-the-transformer.)

Karl

[Pinwig]

It is in the instructions. Listed as 'Alternate Transformation':

[Pinwig]

Perceptor's tank mode is titled 'mobile laboratory':

[Llama God]

Mobile lab of VIOLENCE.

But aye, I'd agree on the whole Transmetals point. They were definitely (for the most part) just beast modes with bling.

For me, I think triple-changer does mean three functionally distinct modes (so no, slight city variants don't count - but city or giant scorpion does). And at that point I guess there is some amount of subjectivity, depending on whether you think that third mode is actually any cop or not. ;-)

[Pinwig]

Course if you look carefully, Perceptor's instructions also reveal his little known 'Irish Jig' mode under step 5. He's such a diva.

[legios]

Dec 19, 2016 9:01:49 GMT Pinwig said:

It is in the instructions. Listed as 'Alternate Transformation':

Fair enough - I'd never actually seen a set of Jetfire instructions, which was why I asked the question. In this case I would say that the "The Transformers" Jetfire is a triplechanger. The majority of Jetfires aren't but that is the exception to prove the rule in this case. And similarly for Perceptor being a three-mode transformer. If it is in the instructions as such, then it is a legitimate mode in my view.

Karl

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Dec 18, 2016 17:52:09 GMT Toph said:

I also think there are triplechangers, and there are The Triplechangers.
A triplechanger is basically what I laid out above. A Triplechanger is one of the six members of the G1 subgroup.

Blitzwing and Springer are not members of any kind of well-defined group - they're not even in the same army. Blitzwing would say he was more in a group with Ramjet than in a group with Springer.

Dinobot, Protectobot, Constructicon, Wrecker, Mayhem Attack Squad, Air Strike Patrol, Pretender Monster, Metro Squad, Survivor, etc. are team names. The members go on missions as a group.

Triple Changer, Powermaster, Micromaster, Action-Master, Pretender, etc. are _not_ team names. They are descriptions of robot abilities. Optimus Prime is a Powermaster and a Triple Changer. Scorponok is a Headmaster and a Triple Changer. Grimlock is a Dinobot who at some point is also a Pretender or an Action-Master.

Tracks is a Triple Changer as much as Springer.

Martin

[Pinwig]

I think CJ's right with that. I agree Triple Changers in the traditional sense aren't a sub-team in a narrative sense, but they are a toy sub-line, denoted by the way their box packaging specifically states their role as 'Triple Changer'. In that regard Tracks isn't a Triple Changer because his box gives his role as 'Autobot Warrior'. There is a difference between toys that were badged and sold as Triple Changers, and toys which have three modes.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Dec 19, 2016 19:51:07 GMT Pinwig said:

I think CJ's right with that. I agree Triple Changers in the traditional sense aren't a sub-team in a narrative sense, but they are a toy sub-line, denoted by the way their box packaging specifically states their role as 'Triple Changer'. In that regard Tracks isn't a Triple Changer because his box gives his role as 'Autobot Warrior'. There is a difference between toys that were badged and sold as Triple Changers, and toys which have three modes.

If you think toy packaging trumps (a) the nature of the toys themselves and (b) the stories. And even the toy packaging makes it clear they are in different armies. Lots of Transformers say 'Autobot Warrior' or 'Decepticon Warrior' on the packaging but that doesn't make 'Warrior' a sub-group. Sidesipe is in no way in the same 'G1 sub-group' as Skywarp.

If you go by the front of the box Starscream is a different sub-group to his fellow Strike Planes because he's a 'Decepticon Air Commander'. It's all a bit random really.





Martin

[Toph]

Dec 19, 2016 19:34:01 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

Dec 18, 2016 17:52:09 GMT Toph said:

I also think there are triplechangers, and there are The Triplechangers.
A triplechanger is basically what I laid out above. A Triplechanger is one of the six members of the G1 subgroup.

Blitzwing and Springer are not members of any kind of well-defined group - they're not even in the same army. Blitzwing would say he was more in a group with Ramjet than in a group with Springer.

Dinobot, Protectobot, Constructicon, Wrecker, Mayhem Attack Squad, Air Strike Patrol, Pretender Monster, Metro Squad, Survivor, etc. are team names. The members go on missions as a group.

Triple Changer, Powermaster, Micromaster, Action-Master, Pretender, etc. are _not_ team names. They are descriptions of robot abilities. Optimus Prime is a Powermaster and a Triple Changer. Scorponok is a Headmaster and a Triple Changer. Grimlock is a Dinobot who at some point is also a Pretender or an Action-Master.

Tracks is a Triple Changer as much as Springer.

Martin

Ummm, I'm really not following your logic. It makes no sense to me. Armies??? What???
I never said the triplechangers were a specific team, like the wreckers?
They're, like you said, subgroups. Like the Headmasters and Pretenders, and such. A small group of transformers that feature a specific gimmick that sets them apart from other TFs that have different, or no gimmicks.

Nothing I've said in this entire thread contradicts this, honestly. Nothing anyone's said contradicts this.
In fact, the core of the discussion is are these six toys that were released as Triple Changers, the *only* triplechangers, or could all toys with three modes also be called triplechangers, without being part if THE Triple Changers. If that makes sense.
To me, it's like saying titanmasters aren't headmasters, even though it's literally the exact same gimmick with a different name.
That isn't arguing that they are THE Headmasters, just that they're headmasters.

Springer's not in the same army as the other triplechangers??? I'm not being hyperbolic or exasperated, i literally do not understand what this means!
I mean, of course he and blitzwing aren't in the same army? One's a decepticon and the other's an autobot?
What does this mean???

[Pinwig]

The box titles are about roles - so figures like Starscream would be individualised because he is a commander. Warrior is a role within the ranks, so it goes without saying that Sideswipe and Skywarp are divided by faction, but are both warriors within their faction, same with the Triple Changers. Triple Changer is a toy type that relates to those six figures, because they're the only ones who were branded as such. They were grouped together under the Triple Changer name in the pack-in toy catalogues, and the adverts in the comics. How the fictions dealt with them is down to the interpretation of the writers, but when you look at Target: 2006, the Autobot Triple Changers did initially appear together as a sub-team within the Wreckers to replace Magnus. In conversation if you're talking about 'The triple changers' everyone knows who you're talking about, and that isn't Tracks.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I guess what my rambling posts are trying to convey is that I consider the somewhat arbitrary way Transformers toys are labelled on the packaging to be a relatively meaningless way to divide Transformers into groups, compared, say, to dividing them into groups based on their physical abilities or the teams they operate in as characters.

Martin

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Dec 19, 2016 22:27:26 GMT Pinwig said:

In conversation if you're talking about 'The triple changers' everyone knows who you're talking about, and that isn't Tracks.

Well, in the toys and cartoon it originally meant just Astrotrain and Blitzwing.

Dec 18, 2016 12:05:21 GMT Toph said:

There were only nine true triplechangers in G1 (Springer, Sandstorm, Broadside, Astrotrain, Blitzwing, Octane, Snapdragon, Apeface, Scorponok.

Springer's two vehicle modes are (like those of Tracks, and like Galvatron's and Perceptor's disguise and tank modes) more similar to one another than, say, Hotspot's and Onslaught's vehicle and battle station modes. Doubledealer is blatantly a Triple Changer and his toy would surely have been marketed as one if it didn't have a Powermaster gimmick also. Yeah, I know I'm not the first to point these out. I'm thinking aloud rather than arguing.

Martin