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Post by blueshift on Oct 22, 2017 10:23:00 GMT
Inspired by Stardub podcast and Andy's insane belief that they're not real.
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 22, 2017 12:16:57 GMT
Of course they're real!
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Oct 22, 2017 15:28:21 GMT
There are two questions here... Scratch that. Three questions - firstly, do Capita (or whomever has the contract for TV License enforcement these days) operate unmarked vans which drive around areas which they are targeting for enforcement action. Secondly, does the technology exist to determine whether a television receiver is being used in a particular location. Thirdly, if the second question is answered in the affirmative, do the vans mentioned in the first question employ it.
1) I think it is likely that the contract holders do employ vehicles of some description to transport their door-knockers to and from the areas in which they are going to be knocking on doors. Whether these are marked or unmarked is not something I'd care to speculate on, except to say that they are likely to be wanting to minimise costs so as to increase their profits, so the idea that they might not bother to pay for sign-painting on their vehicles is not inconceivable.
2) Does the technology exist to determine whether a television is in use at a given location... Hmmm. Difficult to say - various sources have claimed that the American NSA has a technology that can be used to remotely detect the operation of and details of the activity of computer systems. It is generally referred to as TEMPEST in the literature (Transient Electromagnetic something or other). Something similar has been demonstrated in academic research, but only over less than spitting distance. IIRC it was something like a meter or less, and it certainly wasn't as precise and high-bandwidth as TEMPEST is reputed to be. So if the technology does exist, then it is likely pretty deep in the Black as things stand and likely to be the property of some very high-powered agencies. We are talking things like Grey Fox/The Activity/Cemetery Wind, the NSA and the like in the States, probably SRR and the Intelligence or Security service over here.
Which leads us on to
3)If the technology exists is it likely to be in these hypothetical vans, being used to pinpoint people who have not paid the BBC tax? My answer to this - hell no!
So overall all I would say that Capita (or whomever) may well have vans. The vans may well be unmarked. But there is no likelihood that they have special handwavium sensors that can tell who is watching television in which flat in a given tenement. It would be like using UAVs to track and identify litterers - absurd levels of overkill.
Much easier and more cost-effective to check the electoral roll, discard matches with the TV License records and send threatening letters to whomever remains.
Karl
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Post by blueshift on Oct 22, 2017 15:29:29 GMT
No, they have giant sensors on top like in Remembrance of the Daleks
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Post by legios on Oct 22, 2017 15:34:23 GMT
You can put large arrays on things and still not have them actually do anything though. After all, Tornado ADV's flew for a couple of years with a chunk of concrete inside their Radomes instead of the radars we hadn't managed to get to work yet... Didn't stop them flying about being our first and last line of defence against Warsaw Pact incursions into our airspace...
Karl
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Post by Shockprowl on Oct 22, 2017 16:42:04 GMT
Oh shit, I can't remember the last time I paid the TV license! I hope Mrs Shocks did it....
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Post by Shockprowl on Oct 22, 2017 16:43:11 GMT
And and and how can they be real?!?!
I mean, how do they know?!?!
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Post by blueshift on Oct 22, 2017 16:57:19 GMT
And and and how can they be real?!?! I mean, how do they know?!?! They have those TV detecting aerials on top!! |
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Post by Shockprowl on Oct 22, 2017 17:00:19 GMT
But but but what do they detect?! How do they know you've got your telly on?!?!
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Post by blueshift on Oct 22, 2017 17:02:41 GMT
But but but what do they detect?! TVs Keep up, Shocko!!!! |
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Post by Shockprowl on Oct 22, 2017 17:14:17 GMT
BUT HOW?!?!
Any van that points it's radar dish at my house gonna get it's tail-pipe kicked!
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 22, 2017 17:29:54 GMT
No, they have giant sensors on top like in Remembrance of the Daleks Exactly. That is what TV detector vans look like!!! There were adverts telling the public this! I remember them! -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 22, 2017 17:31:11 GMT
And and and how can they be real?!?! I mean, how do they know?!?! They have those TV detecting aerials on top!! Yes! Like in the adverts telling people to pay their TV licence! -Ralph |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Oct 22, 2017 18:46:22 GMT
You are being lied to. Andu is right.
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 22, 2017 21:55:26 GMT
No this is nonsense.
I remember when I was staying at Uni Halls of Residence and we were advised by the Uni to get a TV licence if we had a telly in our room as the TV detector van was known to regularly come round campus.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 22, 2017 21:59:53 GMT
Yes and said van had zero equipment that could detect TV signals, but instead had a list of names of students and a list of tv license holders and cross checked them.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 22, 2017 22:10:27 GMT
We were told it had equipment to detect our TV signals!
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 22, 2017 22:10:52 GMT
We were told it had equipment to detect our TV signals! -Ralph They lied. |
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 22, 2017 22:13:00 GMT
It was direct from the University!!!
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 22, 2017 22:17:45 GMT
It was direct from the University!!! -Ralph Then they believed the BBC lies. |
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 22, 2017 22:18:41 GMT
I refuse to accept that Strathclyde University lied to their students.
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Oct 22, 2017 22:42:51 GMT
As Karl has pointed out the technology to detect whether a weak landscape-wide omnidirectional radio signal is being intercepted (presumably by a drop in its signal after passing through a television aerial) is highly improbable at best.
1) the signals are very weak
2) the signal is a carrier and does not transmit power to the TV itself.
3) the difference in signal before and after reception by the TV is virtually zero.
Thus what are they detecting exactly?
Furthermore
4) localisation of a signal in three dimensions requires three receivers to triangulate the position. One van cannot do this.
5) separate sources in three different vans will not be able to stay in temporal synchronisation to do this using 1980s/90s technology.
Meaning *if* they could determine someone in the area was watching TV they couldn't localise it down.
Strathclyde didn't lie to you. They merely unwittingly bought into the same scare tactics that the TV licensing folk of the time propagated out to nudge people into line. A threat to prosecute looks much more real and demanding if there is something, anything, out there seeming to back it up.
Has there ever been a successful prosecution using evidence from a TV detector van? If so I'd like to see it.
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Post by Shockprowl on Oct 23, 2017 7:24:03 GMT
It was all a lie...
The Bastards...
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 23, 2017 9:33:34 GMT
But I was told about the vans at school.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 23, 2017 9:36:37 GMT
PROOF.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 23, 2017 9:38:26 GMT
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Oct 23, 2017 10:22:22 GMT
They're watching Columbo in the front room of no. 5?
If that isn't a wink and a nod at how much bollocks governments try to get you to swallow I don't know what is..
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 23, 2017 12:38:58 GMT
It shows how good the vans are!
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Oct 23, 2017 12:58:53 GMT
Away with you!
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 23, 2017 13:01:08 GMT
I was told about the vans at school!
-Ralph
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