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Post by Bogatan on Aug 7, 2020 16:37:10 GMT
Its still not even that close but Take Off is a slightly better fit to Sludge. The chest doesnt match any better but at least both are angular. The turbines sort of match up with the stickers on Sludges crotch. The ankle wheel is Sludges dino leg and the blocky thing above it Sludges tail.
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 7, 2020 16:58:03 GMT
The G2 Dinobots were recoloured versions of Grimlock, Snarl and Slag. They did Action Masters of Grimlock, Snarl and... hmmm. Even if Charger isn't the intended figure to be Slag (the rounded 'wheels' on Take-Off's limbs make him a more likely candidate), you can't deny the hints that Slag was the next Dinobot in line for consideration to be released as an Action Master. Martin So what are you saying? That Charger is Slag reformatted into a new body? Or that a proper Action Master Slag was planned but shelved and his already written bio was stuck on another figure?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 7, 2020 17:30:33 GMT
So what are you saying? That Charger is Slag reformatted into a new body? Or that a proper Action Master Slag was planned but shelved and his already written bio was stuck on another figure? Obviously I don't know. Charger's bio describes a Decepticon, but is clearly adapted from Slag's, and there are bits of Action Masters released that look Dinobotish in shape. Given that AM Grimlock and Snarl are quite different in shape to their 1985 robot modes, it's not hard to believe they weren't sure how many Action Master Dinobots they were going to do until the design process was some way along. Maybe one of the other Action Masters was designed to be Slag, but when the designer showed it to their boss, their boss said (correctly), "That doesn't look enough like Slag to be Slag," so they gave up on it being Slag and changed the colours, and maybe swapped some limbs between bodies, and changed the name and allegiance, so all we are left with is hints and suggestions. We will never know... but we can speculate! That's what we're here for! Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 7, 2020 17:32:35 GMT
The G2 Dinobots were recoloured versions of Grimlock, Snarl and Slag. They did Action Masters of Grimlock, Snarl and... hmmm. Even if Charger isn't the intended figure to be Slag (the rounded 'wheels' on Take-Off's limbs make him a more likely candidate), you can't deny the hints that Slag was the next Dinobot in line for consideration to be released as an Action Master. Martin There are no hints (that's not how early 90's kids toys work and we know from Generations books what the unreleased AM concepts were. None of them were Slag. -Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Aug 7, 2020 17:35:39 GMT
We've seen so many unused Action Master designs it seems quite likely that there could have been a Slag amongst dozens of others and then they decided they needed more Decepticons.
Or they decided to lean towards new characters, which would explain why most of the unused designs we've seen are existing characters. Also why the Elite wound up as new characters.
Thundercracker is just awesome so didnt need changing.
Or they lost the new character profile so just stuck in the old one.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 7, 2020 17:43:49 GMT
Exactly. Could be any of the above. No-one can rule out any of the possibilities. And the fact Grimlock's function has shifted back from the 'Lieutenant Commander' of 1989 to its original 'Dinobot Commander' (surely not just because he's in command of Snarl), and that all five Dinobots were the first TFs to get Nucleon in the comics, and that it stands to reason that if the Action Masters had been really popular and sold amazingly there would have been more Dinobots...
There's no way they decided to do Grimlock and Snarl in the first wave and ruled out doing any more Dinobots, no matter how well they sold. And someone was clearly thinking about Slag, as they were copying from his tech-specs.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 7, 2020 17:51:56 GMT
This is before the era of 'complete sets'. We are viewing this through modern eyes. Not all the Dinobots were in Classics or G2.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 7, 2020 18:03:41 GMT
I am ignorant of the ways of modern TFs. 1987-1991 was the era of try something, and if it sells well, do more of it the following year, and possibly more the year after that, maybe with new gimmicks added, but if it doesn't sell, stop and try something else. So Sideswipe and Tracks were added to the rosters of Classic Heroes and Action Masters (in Europe), and Classic Protectobots and Combaticons followed the year after Classic Aerialbots and Protectobots. But they presumably felt sales didn't justify adding yet more Classic Heroes after those two, or the Technobots and Terrorcons, so they stopped. If Action Master Grimlock and Snarl had sold amazingly well, I can't imagine them not cashing in and doing one or more additional Action Master Dinobots. They must have thought about it. What we'll never know is how far along they thought about it, apart from taking the time to read Slag's tech-specs.
Martin
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Post by Bogatan on Aug 7, 2020 18:22:47 GMT
I think the fact that reissues and new version of characters (started on a large scale with Action Masters) continued almost without pause right through to Machine Wars, with further homages across BW and BM, means that the policy was considered a success.
But its also quite possible that a big name character like Grimlock could have sold big enough numbers for the approach to continue while a not so big name like Snarl sold poorly enough that they didn't feel the need for a third Dinobot.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 7, 2020 18:38:59 GMT
Poor sales may have snarl-ed such a possibility.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 7, 2020 18:53:11 GMT
Exactly. Could be any of the above. No-one can rule out any of the possibilities. And the fact Grimlock's function has shifted back from the 'Lieutenant Commander' of 1989 to its original 'Dinobot Commander' (surely not just because he's in command of Snarl), and that all five Dinobots were the first TFs to get Nucleon in the comics, and that it stands to reason that if the Action Masters had been really popular and sold amazingly there would have been more Dinobots... There's no way they decided to do Grimlock and Snarl in the first wave and ruled out doing any more Dinobots, no matter how well they sold. And someone was clearly thinking about Slag, as they were copying from his tech-specs. Martin There's plenty of illustrations of abandoned Action Masters in Generations, so they weren't just thinking about those characters I am ignorant of the ways of modern TFs. We will educate you as this feature progresses 1987-1991 was the era of try something, and if it sells well, do more of it the following year, and possibly more the year after that, maybe with new gimmicks added, but if it doesn't sell, stop and try something else. So Sideswipe and Tracks were added to the rosters of Classic Heroes and Action Masters (in Europe), and Classic Protectobots and Combaticons followed the year after Classic Aerialbots and Protectobots. But they presumably felt sales didn't justify adding yet more Classic Heroes after those two, or the Technobots and Terrorcons, so they stopped. If Action Master Grimlock and Snarl had sold amazingly well, I can't imagine them not cashing in and doing one or more additional Action Master Dinobots. They must have thought about it. What we'll never know is how far along they thought about it, apart from taking the time to read Slag's tech-specs. Martin What went on with the Gold Box classics is seemingly A LOT more complicated than it first appears as they are, essentially, reboxed toys from the Chinese run in the late 80s/early 90s, so what Classics had to choose from came from what was available when in that range. Have a read of www.highendtfs.com/90sreissuesInformation lost in that page's revamp indicated Chinese Swoop and Slag weren't initially availablke
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Post by The Huff on Aug 7, 2020 20:01:41 GMT
So. What Action Masters were people hoping to see (but didn't). For me, it was Ratchet - I really thought he would have been done. (Although I'd laugh at my past self now, if he was done but was just the same style as the original toy - just without the sledge).
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 7, 2020 20:25:59 GMT
Who would have predicted they'd recolour Wheeljack as a Decepticon but not recolour Prowl, Inferno and Starscream to make Bluestreak, Smokescreen, Grapple and Skywarp? That was a... surprising choice.
Martin
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 7, 2020 20:28:23 GMT
Story-wise, it would have made more sense to make Action Masters of characters who were not being released simultaneously as transforming Transformers. So, if Prowl, Jazz and co. were being done as Classic Heroes, the Action Masters should have been Bluestreak, Hound, Mirage, Ratchet and Trailbreaker.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 7, 2020 21:28:45 GMT
Who would have predicted they'd recolour Wheeljack as a Decepticon but not recolour Prowl, Inferno and Starscream to make Bluestreak, Smokescreen, Grapple and Skywarp? That was a... surprising choice. Martin Not really. We're still in the era of Transformers mostly being new characters every year. -Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 7, 2020 22:27:39 GMT
This is quite interesting though. At this point of euro driven releases do we know who was making the decisions about toys? I'd guess the 91 Action Masters are designs initiated by Hasbro America that went unused when the line was cancelled, but where did the Turbomasters originate? Are the 92/93 toys solely European in conception?
There'd be some amazing TFN panels in talking to the people who could talk about what was going on then.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 7, 2020 22:34:57 GMT
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 7, 2020 22:54:24 GMT
Oh yes! Aww. Next year maybe.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 8, 2020 5:31:34 GMT
Not really. We're still in the era of Transformers mostly being new characters every year. I think of that era as having ended in Europe, or at least taken a break for a couple of years. Most of the separately packaged toys on this catalogue - all the gold box Classics and Pretender Classics and half the Action Masters - were existing characters. (Numerically I admit they were slightly outnumbered by individual Micromaster combiner squad members, but they aren't given much page space compared to the Classic ranges.) And it was surprising to me anyway. Wasn't Slicer the only original G1 toy character who was a repaint of a remake of an existing character? That made him noteworthy to me anyway. They recoloured a guy who we always thought of as having a unique body form, rather than one like Prowl or Inferno who we were used to seeing recolours of. I would love to know exactly how well the classic character Action Masters sold compared to the new character Action Masters. My instinct is to say the classic characters would have sold better with fans, but I just don't know, especially in Europe where transforming versions of the same characters were on sale at the same time. I suppose it's possible that some fans would buy Classic Hero Inferno and then avoid buying inferior Action Master Inferno and buy Mainframe instead. But who can say?? Martin
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 8, 2020 7:10:24 GMT
Mind still boggling that in 1990 we had three completely different versions of both Grimlock and Jazz on a single catalogue.
Martin
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Post by The Huff on Aug 8, 2020 7:22:42 GMT
Re. Slicer, I wonder if it's anything to do with Sprocket & Wheeljack being on the same mold or whatever in the factory?
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 8, 2020 7:49:57 GMT
They DEFINITELY should have done cartoony Ratchet and Ironhide. Massive missed opportunity, especially looking at with modern eyes and how much trouble they've had doing transforming versions of these robot forms.
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Post by Llama God on Aug 8, 2020 9:17:34 GMT
At the time I remember being more excited by being able to finally get affordable versions of characters that I'd not already owned, or which had never actually been able to obtain over here. Now that encompasses a wide range of characters since I was one of three children, and also I was easily swept up by every other fad too, so nowhere near what you'd call a focussed collector. But certainly Ratchet and Ironhide would've been up there in my hopes of what would have been produced, along with the animation model Jetfire (Skyfire). Things in that arena, certainly, that would have been difficult to make work as a transforming toy.
But also I'd have loved for them to use the opportunity to make comics-only characters like Xaaron or Impactor. Or even major characters that had never received a toy, like Arcee. The opportunities were endless. Alas, sales were not...
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Post by Benn on Aug 8, 2020 9:20:38 GMT
Arcee got a prototype as well, sadly.
Do you think we can persuade Blue to paint an AM Megatron as Xaaron?
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Post by Jaymz on Aug 8, 2020 11:23:43 GMT
I would love to know exactly how well the classic character Action Masters sold compared to the new character Action Masters. My instinct is to say the classic characters would have sold better with fans, but I just don't know, especially in Europe where transforming versions of the same characters were on sale at the same time. Anecdotal evidence, but I'm trying to collect all the carded AMs on sealed cards, with just Tracks and Sideswipe left that I need. The 6 Euro ones were sold in cases of 6 [1 of each], and whereas I have seen plenty Powerflash, Take-Off and Charger, Bombshell is a bit rarer, and Tracks and Sideswipe are very rare [on sealed cards]. In all the years I've been looking, I have seen 3 Tracks and 2 Sideswipes, which had either already sold or were out of my price range. Speaking with dealers, the reason is because Sideswipe and Tracks were the most popular at the time. The rest of them had stock that ended up in sales or remainder stores.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 8, 2020 11:39:46 GMT
It's funny... but then I suppose when I look at pictures of AM Sideswipe and Tracks, part of me still thinks, hey, the sleek red Lamborghini robot and the flying blue Corvette! Even though I know the toys can't do that any more.
Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 9, 2020 21:23:23 GMT
In terms of voting, urrgh, all of these look awful. So I got go... '84... '85....
Bombshell.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 9, 2020 21:43:10 GMT
GOOD MAN!!!
-Ralph
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Post by The Huff on Aug 9, 2020 21:49:41 GMT
I might have voted Bombshell if they'd done a very simple optional thing - and made his hand gun able to be mounted above his head - giving him part of his signiture look.
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 9, 2020 21:50:15 GMT
Ugh, best of a bad bunch
What is that on his head?!
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