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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 25, 2019 21:29:40 GMT
EXACTLY! "Going by Marvel" Who said 'Marvel' is the be all and end all of Transformers, HUH?!?! Well, only the Marvel comics contained the stories written by the guy who named the transforming gun toy 'Megatron' and wrote his tech-specs and TFU entry. Why _should_ the first Decepticon leader be the best one? He may have been a good scary figurehead to inspire warriors and lead them into battle, but why shouldn't someone with a little more vision pull his strings and replace him when he goes off the rails, and prove to be a better leader? Why is that a bad story arc? Edit: Sorry, I thought this was the Decepticon leader thread. *moves post to that thread* Martin |
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 25, 2019 22:59:53 GMT
The Fall & Rise of The Decepticon Empire always springs to mind when I think of Megatron as he should be. And he was portrayed as a good leader in Arrival From Cybertron or indeed the whole first season of the cartoon. It was only during season 2 he became typical viliian of the week. Certainly true about the pilot for the cartoon. In MTMTE 1-3 Megatron is a formidable leader. He pulls off several plans and second guesses Prime. It's only Mirage that stops him. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 25, 2019 23:17:41 GMT
I agree in the first three episodes and the first part of the Movie that Megatron does feel like he stepped out of his tech specs. The rest of Sunbow reduced him to the battle cry of "Decepticon's retreat!".
I think in Marvel his downfall and spiralling into madness can be blamed squarely on Sparkplug. After all, we know he'd had setbacks in the fight on Cybertron and still was in control, but to have his ambitions thwarted when they were on the cusp of victory by a human. That would be a massive loss of respect from his troops, and the fact such a feeble creature brought him low had to eat away at his mind. Once he is up and running Shockwave then smacks him down, and when he decides to bide his time and attempt to get back at him, he is then taken out by the Autobot's chief medical officer, a non-combatant primarily. Again the ego suffers.
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 26, 2019 5:52:57 GMT
And he fell off a cliff and hit his head and became Joey Slick's slave. And had his brain invaded by Straxus. And got half-destroyed by the Predacons and an exploding Space Bridge. And then got melted together with Ratchet.
You'd expect those things to take their toll.
I almost feel sorry for the guy.
Almost.
Martin
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 26, 2019 7:01:04 GMT
The Fall & Rise of The Decepticon Empire always springs to mind when I think of Megatron as he should be. Unfortunately, that was the Straxus clone. Martin |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 10:18:53 GMT
And he fell off a cliff and hit his head and became Joey Slick's slave. And had his brain invaded by Straxus. And got half-destroyed by the Predacons and an exploding Space Bridge. And then got melted together with Ratchet. You'd expect those things to take their toll. I almost feel sorry for the guy. Almost. Martin Exactly, there is a reason why Marvel Megatron ends up completely insane by the end of it. |
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Post by Benn on Feb 26, 2019 11:43:13 GMT
I don't get why Galvatron is on there. He never really led them in Marvel, did he?
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 26, 2019 16:42:26 GMT
For about five minutes before and after he traveled through time.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 17:32:52 GMT
Yes, he led them in Target: 2006 technically, and again once Time Wars had finished he was in charge back on Cybertron.
Andy
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Feb 26, 2019 18:31:23 GMT
And in Rhythms of Darkness.
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2019 18:51:02 GMT
And in that nightmare future in the black and white era.
-Ralph
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Post by Benn on Feb 26, 2019 19:16:56 GMT
Fair enough, I wasn't thinking of bits and bobs, more concerted periods of leadership.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 19:18:02 GMT
And in Rhythms of Darkness. Alternate Galvatron. That is Galvatron 2. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 19:18:44 GMT
And in that nightmare future in the black and white era. -Ralph I covered that with the whole after Time Wars bit! |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Feb 26, 2019 19:23:08 GMT
And in Rhythms of Darkness. Alternate Galvatron. That is Galvatron 2. Ah but still Galvatron. Only your prime universe bias leads you to calling him '2' or 'Alternate'. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 19:35:01 GMT
Nope.
Different iteration, so you can't attribute the Target 2006 Galvatrons's successes and failures to him and vice versa.
Hence why he is Galvatron 2.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2019 19:36:55 GMT
I thought there were 3 Galvatrons. The one in our universe, the one in the Rhythms of Darkness one and the alternate future one in the black and white era.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 19:39:41 GMT
Not the alternate future one, as he technically is the same Galvatron as first one, just his time travelling stuff unhappened because of Time Wars otherwise there would be FOUR GALVATRONS.
State of play is:
1 - Galvatron
2 - Perchance to Dream Galvatron
3 - Rhythms of Darkness Galvatron
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2019 19:47:18 GMT
Hang on hang on. I thought Perchance to Dream Galvatron was Galvatron 1 but he came back to life or something because of Time Wars.
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Feb 26, 2019 19:50:44 GMT
Hang on hang on. I thought Perchance to Dream Galvatron was Galvatron 1 but he came back to life or something because of Time Wars. -Ralph He clearly says it was a different Galvatron! |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2019 19:51:37 GMT
So if he's a different one then does that means there are FOUR Galvatrons!
What about the one in the Decoy comic strip?
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Feb 26, 2019 19:54:01 GMT
So if he's a different one then does that means there are FOUR Galvatrons! What about the one in the Decoy comic strip? -Ralph that happens during the time wars |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2019 19:55:21 GMT
Can someone draw a diagram of the different Galvatrons and where they come from? My head hurts.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2019 19:55:51 GMT
So if he's a different one then does that means there are FOUR Galvatrons! What about the one in the Decoy comic strip? -Ralph that happens during the time wars You might be right. Ultra Magnus is shown there. -Ralph |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 20:03:48 GMT
Hang on hang on. I thought Perchance to Dream Galvatron was Galvatron 1 but he came back to life or something because of Time Wars. -Ralph No. He is an entirely different Galvatron. The Galvatron we see in Aspects of Evil and the rest of the future stories is Galvatron 1. Just the time travel unhappened is all. Andy |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 20:04:30 GMT
So if he's a different one then does that means there are FOUR Galvatrons! What about the one in the Decoy comic strip? -Ralph that happens during the time wars The decoy strip is it's own micro-continuity. |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2019 20:10:00 GMT
Hang on hang on. I thought Perchance to Dream Galvatron was Galvatron 1 but he came back to life or something because of Time Wars. -Ralph No. He is an entirely different Galvatron. The Galvatron we see in Aspects of Evil and the rest of the future stories is Galvatron 1. Just the time travel unhappened is all. Andy But if it unhappened then Galvatron is now a different one! -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 26, 2019 20:18:33 GMT
Right.
There is Galvatron 1. We will call him Geoff. He dies in TIME WARS.
There is Galvatron 2 in an alternate future called RHYTHMS OF DARKNESS. We will call him Bob.
There is Galvatron 3 in ASPECTS OF EVIL. We will call him Matilda.
There is Galvatron 4 in the future black and white era where Rodders and co end up after TIME WARS. I think he killed Blurr. We will call him Babs.
So are Babs and Matilda the same Galvatron and if so...how?
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 26, 2019 20:32:10 GMT
Right. There is Galvatron 1. We will call him Geoff. He dies in TIME WARS. There is Galvatron 2 in an alternate future called RHYTHMS OF DARKNESS. We will call him Bob. There is Galvatron 3 in ASPECTS OF EVIL. We will call him Matilda. There is Galvatron 4 in the future black and white era where Rodders and co end up after TIME WARS. I think he killed Blurr. We will call him Babs. So are Babs and Matilda the same Galvatron and if so...how? -Ralph No. Geoff and Matilda are the same Galvatron. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 26, 2019 20:49:57 GMT
I think of Perchance to Dream Galvatron as being the same as Galvatron 2. At least, I'm pretty sure Furman intended him to be the same character as the Galvatron that appeared in the later US issues, before he gave up trying to make Earthforce fit.
It's possible that the scenes in which Hook, Line and Sinker bring him back in time could be set some months earlier than the surrounding stories, which would allow him time to temporarily break free from Unicron, do his Perchance to Dream thing, get captured, escape and go on to attack Xaaron's base on Cybertron. I find that more satisfactory than having three Galvatron's in the 20th Century.
Anyway, in my list of things that drove Megatron mad, I forgot getting beaten up by your future self.
Martin
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