Transformers Missing Link

[Philip Ayres]

Missing Link:

C-01 & C02 Optimus Prime: tmukhub.proboards.com/post/502085/thread

C-03 Bumblebee & C-04 Cliffjumper tmukhub.proboards.com/post/519673/thread

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I mentioned in the Star Convoy thread that I think God Ginrai could be made better with just a little work.

Which toys do you think could *realistically* be improved by some simple work done to their molding/painting/stickers ? I'm not talking a complete throwing away and starting again classics style, I mean modifying the existing toy. It may be God Ginrai is the only one ....

He's better than Powermaster Prime already by having the longer arms and the slide out (blue) fists. If you look at the arms on the elbow there's molding there that an amateur could use to turn into a working elbow joint. The shoulder boxes have a definite edge round the bottom - turn that into a bicep swivel.

There you go - poseable arms just to start with.

The legs might take a little more work but you can see how some poseable ratchet joints could be added to both knee and hip to allow movement there.

The waist is an obvious point to hinge - 2 existing pieces of plastic meet there anyway. That might cause problems with the ramp connector on his backside though....

[Shockprowl]

One I've considered is Armada Megatron. Back when I was thinking 'bout turning him into Grimlock, I considered improving his arms by somehow making the tracks on his shoulders his upper arms, and also improving hip articulation. Maybe alot of work thought. Some day I may try it 'cos with a new head as well I still think this would make an excellant vehiclised Grimlock.

ian

[Philip Ayres]

I've seen hips and knees on Armada Megs done. IIRC iot was a straight parts swap with another toy.

[Bogatan]

Supercon Prime has limited hip movement due to being too right angled, by swapping the right and left upper legs the toy gets a fuller range of movement.

Andy

[dyrl]

I always felt the brilliant thing about the Transformers - at least the Autobots based of of Diaclone - was that they were not meant to "walk" - the legs were not meant to be poseable - they were meant to ROLL everywhere in robot mode Ergo the arms usually came out extremely poseable, while the legs were "brick like"

The exception to this was Optimus Prime who - naturally - had moving legs - and must have been a true marvel of poseability back in 1984

But this is a hard question - because technically one is inclined to say - "make more joints/more poseable" ...

But here are some suggestions:

1) Split legs for Nightbeat, Hosehead and Siren. Is it really to much to ask - since the transformation compels articulation in the knees - for each half of the lower legs to be seperate? I mean - they would still come together during transformation - but it would just be pleasant to have them seperate.

2) Metroplex - he could be improved by PAINTING THE BLOODY CITY BUILDINGS! Or at least giving us stickers with lots of windows, roads, etc etc etc. There are so many possibilities and yet we just get this somewhat dissapointingly sparcely detailed blob...

3) ALL (Scramble City) GESTALTS: What a terrible waste. First you had the capacity for bending at the knees which most of the gestalts ("properly" transformed don't utilize) Secondly; many time you had potential movement for the upper legs which also doesn't get used. Generally speaking a little bit of work could really improve them.

umm... and I guess that's it off the top of me head

dyrl

[Philip Ayres]

You remind mke of something with the combiners: They'd have been a lot better if Hasbro had hit on the idea of reusing characters a few years ealier. Or at least gone through with it because to my eye it's obvious the Protectorbots are meant to be 1984 Autobots reborn

Repaint Hotspot in Red and make him Optimus Prime. The only plausable reason for Hotspot being the colour he is is that it did look to much like Prime. First Aid and Streetwise become Ratchet and Prowl, Groove is Jazz and Blades... maybe Wheeljack.

If you then swap the Stunticons and the Aerialbots to the other sides and do a bit of repainting most of them become obvious reuses too: Dragstrip = Mirage, Breakdown = Sideswipe, Dead End = Blue Streak and Wildrider = Windcharger (I think). Motormaster presents a problem here .... Huffer maybe ? Then Silverbolt becomes Starscream, Airraid= Skywarp, and make the other 3 planes 3 of the other jets as you like....

The Combaticons represent a larger problem but if you think that Octane is meant to be Soundwave it follows that Brawl = Rumble, Swindle = Frenzy and Vortex & Blast Off are Laserbeak and Buzzsaw

A little paint and some different names would make all the difference.

A similar application can be made to the Micromasters to increase identification with existing toys.

[dyrl]

And thank God Hasbro DIDN'T do that

Why? Because it is much BETTER to create new names, new back-stories, new abilities and incorporate them in the existing universe than to have what we get now - repaints with the same old names a a general distilled diluted dumbed down version of a character stereotype. An arche-type that never develops, never grows, but is simply reused every new run of the toy

dyrl

[Shockprowl]

I love that Phil! Oh I'm all for new characters etc etc as Dyrl says, but I'm a nutter for my 'core' characters and I've always fancied a combiner group for the 'core' 'bots and 'cos! The Protectobot idea sounds great (maybe a Stunticon in there as Wheeljack)! For the 'Cons, make Onslaught Megatron, er Brawl/Vortex Soundwave, then 3 Jets as the Seekers! Beautifull!

Ian

[Andy Turnbull]

May 3, 2008 9:17:57 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Repaint Hotspot in Red and make him Optimus Prime.
Motormaster presents a problem here .... Huffer maybe ?

An easier proposition would be make Hotspot as Inferno and Motormaster would be Optimus Prime.

Damn you! You've no idea how tempting it is to get these toys and do just that.

Andy

[Bogatan]

Wow so many possibilities especially if you mix and match limbs.

For me
Motormaster = Prime (he'd have to be the red foot variant though)
Hotspot = Inferno
Onslaught = Megatron
Silverbolt = Starscream

Prime along with Jazz, Bumblebee, Wheeljack and Sideswipe, well really it could be any four as I dont think there are any close robot mode matches.
Starscream is easy enough as well, 4 of the remaining 5 jets

Inferno would come with Prowl and Ratchet, maybe take wheeljack from Primes team in place of Groove who cold be done as erm, Arcee? Tracks? Wreakgar, yeah Wreak Gar. Blades would have to become one of the Autobot fliers. Jetfire or Cosmos or Powerglide oh or springer. Just cause its green Id go for Cosmos, but colour wise for the combined mode Jt or PG would make more sense. None of them really fit the rescue theme very well though. Then again all seemed to play the rescue role in the cartoon or comics.

Megatron with Astrotrain, Blitzwing, er Swindle would make a good Hound but that doesnt help. And other helicopter as the remaining jet I suppose. Alternatively the four limbs would work well as Flywheels and the other Duocon set. Or Swindle is used as Hound in Infernos team and Blades in used as another Con flier. Both copters used as arms and the combined mode is called Turbomaster.

So many ideas.

Andy

[Philip Ayres]

But look at Hotspot's head - it's Prime. Ditto Onslaught and Soundwave.

Paint Hotspot red and you have Prime. Take a look at Fire Chief !

[dyrl]

Well - this is a good point that Phil makes.

I guess it would also make sense in the context of Scramble city.

Given the extent to which Metroplex (and Trypticon?) can interact with the combiner gestalt teams - a feature never prominently advertised but clearly there - it is possible that the combiner teams were at some point initially designed to be all new configurations of the original Autobots and Decepticons?

This analysis, however, falls apart only in one sense - the robot modes of most of the smaller gestalt members in no way, shape or form correspond to the robot modes of the original Autobots and Decepticons...

While Hotspot-Prime or Onslaught-Soundwave are indeed there - the little guys, beyond the vehicle mode resemblence, don't really fit the bill...

Then again - I guess no one would care if the general color and reimaging were correct

But - consider the heads... the heads of the little guys aren't even attempts are imitating the heads of their forebearers...

So - I think the comparisson is shaky - but at least it would make sense with Metroplex as Autobot City to go for the Autobots as a Gestalt team that could interact with him

dyrl

[Deleted]

There are some of the Alternators toys that could do with simple modifications. On all of the toys that transform into cars where the roof of the car hangs down the back of the robot someone could change the car mode into a convertible by getting rid of the roof and the door windows. This would make the robot mode more pleasing to look at.

[Philip Ayres]

May 7, 2008 6:44:24 GMT dyrl said:

Well - this is a good point that Phil makes.

I guess it would also make sense in the context of Scramble city.

Given the extent to which Metroplex (and Trypticon?) can interact with the combiner gestalt teams - a feature never prominently advertised but clearly there - it is possible that the combiner teams were at some point initially designed to be all new configurations of the original Autobots and Decepticons?

IIRC The Scramble City stuff was all meant to be the next year of Diaclone. That means the Soundwave/Onslaught comparison fails woefully but increases the possiblity Hotspot was meant to be Convoy.

Alternators: And made the removable roofs into shields ?

[The Doctor]

Scramble City was the next year of Diaclone? I didn't know that!

-Ralph

[Deleted]

May 7, 2008 17:31:25 GMT The Doctor said:

Scramble City was the next year of Diaclone? I didn't know that!

-Ralph

Indeed. Metroplex and the 1986 scramble city combiners were all originally designed to be part of the combination-themed 1985 Diaclone series that was cancelled when Takara imported Transformers. The reason Metroplex can combine with Onslaught and Motormaster as well as Silverbolt and Hot Spot is that they were all going to be on the same side in the Diaclone storyline. Much like Astrotrain, another aborted Diaclone release, their designs were then incorporated into Transformers. I'm not sure if Trypticon began life this way or if he was designed later along as a Transformer, though seeing as the combination feature isn't as pronounced on Trypticon I'd guess that he was designed later on in response to Metroplex.

Hot Spot does have a very Prime-ish head I'll give you that, but I doubt that it is anything more than a coincidence seeing as it is primarily the animation model model it resembles and not so much Battle Convoy's toy head. Though Protectobots and Combaticons were finalised slightly after Metroplex, the Aerialbots and Stunticons judging by their date stamps (Metroplex, the Aerialbots and Stunticons are dated 1985, the Protectobots and Combaticons are dated 1986) so perhaps some design elements from Optimus Prime's animation model *could* conceivably have influenced the Takara designer who turned Hot Spot from a Diaclone concept design into a Transformer. Still, 'clearly meant to be' and 'looks a bit like' are very different things. And Onslaught looks nothing like Soundwave apart from having a single strip optic and a mouth guard (he completely lacks Soundwave's cheek thingies and forehead triangle armour etc) - going by those criteria any one of 100's of transformers could be said to be based on Soundwave. Sorry Phil, but you are just clutching at straws there to justify the idea that Hot Spot was designed to be Prime and that the rest of his team are 1984 Autobots. Streetwise is a Datsun police car but he looks nothing like Prowl and is a different model of datsun. First Aid is an ambulance, yes, but he doesn't look anything like Ratchet. And the idea completely falls apart with Blades and Groove.

I think if the team who put the 1986 line together were trying to create a new version of Optimus Prime they probably would have made the Powered Convoy repaint that was turned into Ultra Magnus an upgraded Optimus Prime rather than one of the Special team leaders, what with it being bigger and more impressive and incorporating part of the original Prime toy. And since the idea of updating an older charter with a new body didn't kick in until 1987's Goldbug and 88's Powermaster Prime (Hot Rod/Roduimus prime doesn't count due to it being part of the plot of the movie) and didn't really start to fly as an idea until two years after Goldbug with the Pretender Classics it seems highly unlikely that Hot Spot's Primeiness was anything other than a coincidence, or at best a designer who had seen Prime's animation model somewhere around and liked it.

Transformer head designs were a lot more interchangeable back then anyway. Snap Trap's head looks even more like Optimus Prime than Hot Spot's does but that doesn't mean that he was designed as an 'undersea-attack Optimus' does it? (or does it??? Dun-dun-duuuuuuuuuuh!!!)

[Philip Ayres]

Having mentioned it in the repaints thread, G2 Megatron's been on my mind. Why's Hasbro never retooled the toy with decent waist & hip articulation?

And - Powermast Prime above which I still think is a retool away from being a really cool toy - change the sliders for the hands into Minicon posts.

[Toph]

Yeah, I think Armada Megatron is the first thing that pops into mind anytime I think of a simular subject.
Had they given him kneejoints, he'd be one of the most epic TFs to ever exist.

And for Powermaster Prime, there's absolutely no reason they couldn't have given him elbow joints.

G1 Soundwave needed proper knee joints, and I see no reason why he couldn't have had them.

G1 Optimus, if he had been able to move his legs forward, (And Soundwave's "improvement") he'd have been the single greatest toy in the entire run.


Looking back at G1, Armada, most of the action figures from the eighties, and the way Mattel is degressing with their "Kid" lines (Green Lantern, Dark Knight Rises, Batman "Evergreen"), I really can't comprehend why toy companies feel that articulation is not important to kids.
Growing up, I always wanted basic articulation out of my toys. By that, I mean shoulder joints, elbow joints, T-Crotch (Hated V-Crotches), and knee joints. More than that was awesome, but for me that was the minimum to make me extremely happy with a toy.
Transformers that had more articulation got played with more. Optimus, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave, Shockwave got played with more than Hotrod, Runamuck, and Goldbug.

So any toy that's lacking in articulation for some stupid reason (Talking like why Supercon Armada Prime can't move his legs well, not why supermode PM optimus has no knee joints), that's where I'd want to see improvements.

[Bogatan]

I got a tidalwave in a random lot a few years back that had had improved knee articulation added and it did make all the difference.

[The Doctor]

I never cared about articulation as a nipper. My imagination was enough. Even as an adult, articulation isn't a big thing for me.

-Ralph

[shadowynne]

oh gods the insecticons, i always look at them and think about getting proper articulation into them. i always tweek and improve my toys, mostly simple stuff like head fixes and increasing flexibility in joints.

[Stomski]

So I was watching Peaugh's review of the new G1 Starscream reissue and he mentioned that they hadn't made any major engineering differences because we've got MP and CHUGs etc. for that kind of thing, and Starscream didn't need any changes (other than for safety reasons). Some other G1 reissues have been tweaked over time, Jazz's legs got fixed, Bumblebee got a new face etc. etc.

Could such mold changes go a step further however? The thing that CHUGs and MP do is create a completely separate mould with a new transformation and I think I'd like to see original moulds, but with better articulation/features where appropriate.

Imagine if you will a G1 Optimus Prime, but with fold out fists... A G1 Starscream with leg articulation. These things could be added without modifying the transformation, but give us a vastly improved figure.

What G1 figures would you like?

[The Huff]

I thought about this before too, but thought that outside of the odd face or head change, it would need to be a new mold to incorporate things like articulation and things.
I mean, if the original Optimus toy had flip out fists, they would be very small or he would have to have the entire arm made bigger - which would then mean changing his body so they tuck away in vehicle mode etc.
It would be great to see though!

[Shockprowl]

A very interesting idea. I think, in essence, this is what we all would like, out childhood tots made better! That's what the MP line was for me, with MP Prowl, and MP10, before they got too Sunbow and expensive. I'm not sure the G1 molds would hold-up to too much modification. But certainly things like fusts on Prime, or leg articulation in some of them.

[Toph]

Unless it's to repair a flaw, I would not want and G1 molds "tweaked."
I would rather have a full update ala Classics Starscream, rather than have the original Starscream tweaked to give articulation and foldaway fists.

If you're gonna update the original G1 toyline, I'd kinda dig new characters being made in the same style, with the same techniques as G1. A Diaclone style Drift, Windblade, a Victorion gift set (repainting Hotspot, Blades x2, Deadend or Wildrider, Breakdown, and Groove)

[Philip Ayres]

I would love to see some G1 toys tweaked. Give me a Super Ginrai with bending elbows and bicep joints please!

[Shockprowl]

Super Ginrai is just fancy for Powermaster Optimus Prime, isn't it?

[Toph]

Basically. It's a different character, but it's the same mold, the same deco, but slightly tweaked with retracting fists and diecast.

[Shockprowl]

That SOUNDS AWESOME!!!

[Philip Ayres]

The arms are completely different, It has VERY prominent round elbows though, and an easy surface to insert a bicep swivel into.