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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 18, 2024 9:53:04 GMT
Agreed. And Ralph! You could swap their bits around to create new characters! What’s not to love?
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on May 18, 2024 11:44:15 GMT
I just remember being so dissapointed when I got Starscream and his hands were seperate bits. Ruined the illusion.
As an adult I can appreciate what they are but as a kid I thought the planes were not very good.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on May 18, 2024 12:58:00 GMT
In fairness, Kawamori Shoji, one of the concept designers on Diaclone who worked on the design that became Jet Robo and Jet Robo Acrobat Type (and even later Starscream and Thundercracker) was also very disappointed with the parts-forming on that mold.
To the extent that a few years later when he was having dicussions about toys derived from Macross (one of which Takatoku would later remold to create Jetfire for Hasbro) he was very insistent that they would not have detachable wings, hands and what-not. So determined that he did papercraft designs for meetings to show how it could be done. Thus contributing to the revolution that led to "perfect transforming" toys - along with the work of another Diaclone concept designer (Aramaki Shinji) resetting the baseline for transforming mecha toys...
So, whilst Starscream's direct progenitor may have some...issues...shall we say, it did contribute to the trend for toys which didn't have those issues.
Kind of like how the first fish to totter about on its fins contributed to the evolution of legs... Epochal in historical terms, even if ungainly in their day.
Karl
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Post by legios on May 18, 2024 13:01:08 GMT
(This is one of the reasons that I retain my 1984 Skywarp to this day. Not only because it was the second Transformer I bought, and one of the few survivors of the my original collection. But also you can draw a straight line pf descent through it all the way to last years Bandai DX VF-29, the most recent transforming aircraft mecha I acquired. He is basically the equivalent of one of the Hurricanes in the BBMF :-) ).
Karl
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on May 19, 2024 18:02:50 GMT
The week I decide to randomly drop into this thread and it's Starscream, must be fate.
Great character, great toy. Fighter jets were iconic back in the 80s, and this is a great alt mode with a decent transformation. And look at that, a plane mode that isn't just robot kibble on the underside.
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Post by Shockprowl on May 19, 2024 20:57:22 GMT
Yeah. The strike plans are of historical importance but are rubbish toys. -Ralph Doctor! Harsh! What the 'F'?! The Strike Planes are no different to many other Transformers of the age! Many figures had to have add-on bits that made them 'whole'. Why, Optimus Prime himself has add-on fists! Don't punish Starscream just you can't keep your bits and pieces organised, chap! |
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Post by Shockprowl on May 19, 2024 20:59:26 GMT
I don't think they're rubbish at all. The jet modes are superb and I really like the robots. They have a kind of grandiose majesty about them in comparison to the more rank and file Autobot cars. They look like they themselves feel superior to the Autobot underlings. Yes absolutely, they were really a juxtaposition to the Autobots cars who, although more numerous, clearly were not as dangerous . |
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Post by legios on May 19, 2024 21:18:27 GMT
Yeah. The strike plans are of historical importance but are rubbish toys. -Ralph Doctor! Harsh! What the 'F'?! The Strike Planes are no different to many other Transformers of the age! Many figures had to have add-on bits that made them 'whole'. Why, Optimus Prime himself has add-on fists! Same concept designer wasn't particularly impressed with that either... Toy technology has advanced significantly since 1982. Karl |
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on May 19, 2024 21:26:48 GMT
But isn't this thread about judging the toys with respect to the era they came from?
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Post by Benn on May 19, 2024 21:33:22 GMT
Indeed, and when you look at the rest of the Decepticons and they all have hands integrated into the toys without add-ons, I think the designers frustrations can be understood.
I always transformed my Strike Planes back in the day by removing as little as possible. It seems harder to do that with the reissues.
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 19, 2024 23:13:18 GMT
1984's Transformers Are Forty: Week 8 - SunstreakerFunction: Autobot Warrior Japan: VSZ tfwiki.net/wiki/Sunstreaker_(G1)/toyswww.tfu.info/1984/Autobot/Sunstreaker/sunstreaker.htm "They can't beat the best." The complete egotist, Sunstreaker thinks he is the most beautiful thing on Earth. Loves his sleek styling, contemptuous of other Autobot race cars (particularly his twin Sideswipe). Fires laser-guided ground-to-air rockets and high energy electron pulses at 300 bursts/sec. Tough polymer-steel skin resists artillery. Not a team player. Can be baited into dangerous situations, but is a very calm, competent, and ruthless war machine. Strength 5 Intelligence 6 Speed 7 Endurance 8 Rank 5 Courage 7 Firepower 7 Skill 6
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Post by Benn on May 20, 2024 8:06:46 GMT
Such a good looking toy.
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 20, 2024 8:13:20 GMT
That it is.
Just wish the shoulder stickers were yellow to give him better car bodywork
(we all know why they're not)
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 20, 2024 8:43:53 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on May 20, 2024 8:44:54 GMT
A reminder of the overwhelming evidence which may be found in the original unabridged bios: www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=SideswipeSideswipe's two arms can be used as piledrivers. Each exerts 8000 pounds of force upon impact with up to five impacts per second, making him particularly useful in close combat and for breaking through fortifications. A rocket back-pack can sustain him in the air for two minute spurts before refueling is necessary. When launched, two shoulder-mounted magnesium phosphorous flares can each be seen from a distance of 18 miles on a clear night.Sunstreaker is the one with piledriver arms, a rocket pack and two shoulder-mounted flare launchers. www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=SunstreakerSunstreaker is faintly contemptuous of the other sports-car Autobots, particularly his fraternal twin Sideswipe, whose design, he says, is spoiled by the rear-mounted engine in his automobile mode... Sunstreaker wears a right shoulder-mounted, laser-guided, ground-to-air missile launcher... He also carries an electron-pulse gun...Sunstreaker is the one with the rear-mounted engine. Sideswipe is the one with the right shoulder-mounted missile launcher and the one who carries a gun. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on May 20, 2024 8:47:32 GMT
Yeah. The strike plans are of historical importance but are rubbish toys. -Ralph Doctor! Harsh! What the 'F'?! The Strike Planes are no different to many other Transformers of the age! Many figures had to have add-on bits that made them 'whole'. Why, Optimus Prime himself has add-on fists! Don't punish Starscream just you can't keep your bits and pieces organised, chap! As I said: as an adult I can appreciate the Strike Plane toys. As a child I didn't like them because of the parts forming. I didn't own an Optimus Prime until the 2002 Japanese re-issue. -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on May 20, 2024 8:50:19 GMT
Never liked the original Sunstreaker toy, sorry. One of the rare initial releases that I think has been better remade in later toys.
Man and boy, I have never liked launching fists.
-Ralph
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Post by Benn on May 20, 2024 9:04:29 GMT
I don't know where I got the idea, but he never looks right unless one of the fists is replaced by a rocket.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 20, 2024 13:12:26 GMT
Phil cannot convince me that Sunstreaker is Sideswipe and came from Cosmos.
Moons of madness, Phil!
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
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Post by The Huff on May 20, 2024 15:04:58 GMT
I don't know where I got the idea, but he never looks right unless one of the fists is replaced by a rocket. Same here. Probably because his arms are long enough without the yellow boxing gloves added onto them. The missile just looks better. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 20, 2024 15:38:26 GMT
Man and boy, I have never liked launching fists. I always assumed the fists were not intended for launching, they were just intended to be detachable to make way for launching missiles. Like Death's Head. But then they did 'King 'Con' in which Roadhandler launched his fist. Martin |
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Post by that_bluestreak on May 20, 2024 16:14:11 GMT
Oh Sunstreaker! I never had one, only ever saw one briefly as a child when an acquaintance had one. Didn't see him as a classics, or a Mexican grey import toy either.
I had a couple of incomplete Sunnys during collections 2 and 3 so I could appreciate the majesty of the car mode, but I wasn't super keen on his robot mode. In collection 4 I have a complete Sunny and it really falls together when you have the hands and boosters. Still not the best robot mode but it has a lot of play value, especially if you've read the tech specs.
I always assumed that the vehicle was a type of one-off experimental sports car, never realised until reading another thread on here that it was a kind of made up car based on an earlier toy. Its lovely and I would love repaints, prepaints, whatevers.
Sunstreaker's characterisation is fantastic, its really sad that he never got a nice run in the comics to show this off. So much potential for a good character arc. I always wanted to see more of him.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 20, 2024 16:23:03 GMT
Must admit, Sunstreaker is one of my least favourite moulds from 1984-5.
Sunstreaker and Ironhide were selected for the six-robot Classic Heroes line-up circa 1990, alongside Prowl, Jazz, Wheeljack and Inferno. I wouldn't have picked them, and I thought 'That's better' when they were withdrawn and replaced by Sideswipe and Tracks the following year.
Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on May 20, 2024 16:53:24 GMT
I only had Sunstreaker from the Classic Heroes re-release, and yes he did stand-out in that line up. (I felt Ironhide was natural as a Classic Heroe, but Inferno was a stand-out too in my mind.)
Sunstreaker is the least successful of the Autobot cars. He doesn't do the gangly alien-robot look half as well as Wheeljack. The mold seems... gappy.
For 'twin brothers' he and Sideswipe don't really look very similar at all.
As a character he's a bit of a contradiction that I've never been able to quite figure out: a ruthless warrior and flashy beauty-bot? Perhaps too much of a juxtaposition.
I love his head sculpt though.
Techspecs values fairly steady-away.
But, of course, I can never view him, or Sideswipe, in the same way again since becoming aware of Big Phil's correct and obvious realisation that the two molds and characters were muddled up.
I have them in my '84ers collection, but they're rarely involved in any adventures (having cross-overs with Ponies or Moshlings etc). Primarily because of the character muddlisation effect, which is a shame.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 20, 2024 16:59:16 GMT
One thing that I've never been fully able to get my head round is that Sideswipe and Sunstreaker look the same size in car mode, but Sunstreaker looks twice the size of Sideswipe in robot mode! Sunstreaker does look cool on the front cover of the 1985 UK annual, mind.  Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on May 20, 2024 17:24:23 GMT
He does.
-Ralph
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Post by that_bluestreak on May 20, 2024 17:55:29 GMT
yes, definitely. i'd never noticed before but jazz's legs are joined together at the knee ... presumably his spoiler... but why?
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 20, 2024 19:02:58 GMT
They all do on that cover. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 20, 2024 19:03:34 GMT
Man and boy, I have never liked launching fists. I always assumed the fists were not intended for launching, they were just intended to be detachable to make way for launching missiles. Like Death's Head. But then they did 'King 'Con' in which Roadhandler launched his fist. Martin No, Martin. No. Don't give Phil even more Mad Ideas! |
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Post by pulsar on May 20, 2024 21:15:50 GMT
It was quite a surprise to me that Sunstreaker is a different design from Sidewsipe. One thing I liked to do in 1984 was come up with fan theories about the toys that weren’t released in the UK, and the obvious one was that “twins” was an excuse to reuse the same mold. Later years would sometimes have UK toys packaged with European or (more rarely) American leaflets, but I didn’t see any photos of the first six before they appeared on shelves in 1985.
I think most of the characters with interchangeable arm attachments looked better with a weapon instead of a hand. It just seemed more appropriate for an alien warrior robot. Of course, it was best of all when there was somewhere to put the fists in vehicle mode. Before I knew about Diaclone, it bugged me that Stacrscream’s were too big for his cockpit.
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