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Post by legios on Jul 5, 2008 7:14:22 GMT
Russell T Davies on why you should sometimes keep secrets, and why spoilers aren't necessarily a good thing:- news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7490639.stmI think there is a lot of truth to what he says - I for one love being surprised by TV shows - not knowing what's going to happen,and to whom until it does. Karl |
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 5, 2008 11:07:09 GMT
He's right, but he's also the guy who allowed the Next Time trailer for Bad Wolf that gave away the Daleks were in it. Which was a massive spoiler.
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Hero
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Post by Hero on Jul 5, 2008 18:56:14 GMT
Donna RULES
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 5, 2008 19:23:31 GMT
Donna's end was goddamn tragic.  |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 5, 2008 19:45:12 GMT
Post 609 Lots of Dalek Invasion of Earth and Pirate Planet stuff crammed in there. Keep an eye on the doctor's constant companion in the Tradis since the end of the last series. I hear they've got a bigger role to play next week. Post 619 I hear david Tennant will be working twice as hard for his money next week If you didn't now press those spoiler buttons. Was expecting complete and utter tosh. Instead got a nice enjoyable romp. Nothing mold breaking (ala Human Nature/Family of Blood/Blink) but nothing excruciating (Last of the Timelords) either. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jul 5, 2008 19:52:39 GMT
Over the top but enjoyable and Davros verbally taking the Doctor to school was splendid.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 5, 2008 20:22:30 GMT
Highly enjoyable nonsense. Donna's more-or-less death was pretty horrific I thought. Other companions were improved by the Doctor's influence. She ends up being just as, well, thick as before she met him. Nasty! Davros was tops. Yeah, plot holes all over the place, but it was fun. Would not like every episode to be like that, but a big load of OTT nonsense does the job from time to time.
And K-9!
-Ralph |
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 5, 2008 23:02:53 GMT
Donna's more-or-less death was pretty horrific I thought. Other companions were improved by the Doctor's influence. She ends up being just as, well, thick as before she met him. Nasty! Yeah, that is nasty. Especially if, like me, she got on your tits in Runaway Bride - she's now like that FOREVER. After we saw her reach so high.
At least Zoe and Jamie got to remember one adventure... |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 5, 2008 23:04:53 GMT
Turn Left now turns into ominous foreshadowing .....
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 6, 2008 6:07:11 GMT
It was OK - pretty much as expected, very chaotic and OTT without any real sense or peril. The Rose aspect seemed a bit pointless overall - she got her closure at the end of the second series, and didn't justify being brought back. Also not sure why she should now love someone with only part of the personality of the man she loved and part of someone else.
I'm afraid I keep measuring season finales of New Who against the season one finale, with the really scary Daleks (the ones who shoot on sight) working their way up Satellite 5, killing all the supporting cast one by one, while Rose & co. are stranded on present day Earth with a non-responsive Tardis. There were no magic bullets or groups of indestructible super-companions, and there was a real sense of horror and peril about the whole thing.
But since season one, I don't think the Daleks have made anyone hide behind the sofa.
I also preferred it when the people of present-day Earth were largely unaware and oblivious of the strange goings on around them, as was the case in early New Who and Torchwood.
Don't get me wrong, I was in no way disappointed by yesterday's finale, as I held out no prospects for it being like the ending of season one. Just resigned to it being no longer as cutting edge as it once was.
Except when Moffat writes the script.
Martin
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 6, 2008 7:58:24 GMT
Now I thought the S1 one was poo. But not as poo as S3. S2 I loved.
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 6, 2008 10:17:11 GMT
In bizarre twisty logic land if the powers that be have/had decided to put Mickey in Torchwood (assuming thats what ends up happening) before this was written then it might have been felt they had to deal with Rose again as well because theres no way Mickey would come back to this universe and she wouldnt come back for the Doctor.
Andy
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Post by legios on Jul 6, 2008 20:19:05 GMT
I thought it was ok. It wasn't big and it wasn't clever, but it was reasonably entertaining nonsense. I had been expecting the episode to be resolved by someone facing the camera and talking meaningless nonsense anyway - it was a Russell T Davies script after all.
I wasn't so impressed with the resolutions to the elements of the cliffhanger from last week though. Both the Sarah Jane Smith and Torchwood elements basically amounted to "a wizard saves them" in terms of story logic. I did like Davros' great victory though - pointing out something that has a logical flaw in the morality of the new series for a couple of seasons now - the Doctor professes to abhor violence, and so he makes sure he has people who can do the messy bits for him.
(That said, I must admit that thinking about this episode has reminded me that I liked the Jack Harkness character before he got the enormous tragic back-story and the "infinite continues". The whole Captain Scarlet thing is starting to get a bit daft to be honest).
A certain amount of it felt like it was thrown in because it was the last regular season episode Russell T Davies will be writing - so last week we got the Shadow Proclamation for no particular reason, this week they threw in the whole regular supporting cast for the first two years - even if some of them didn't really have much to do. (Rose , for example, didn't actually do anything other that redo bits of character arc that had already been done.) But then, that was really to be expected. This wasn't really an attempt at serious drama. It was the equivalent of a two-issue summer comics crossover, where several teams get together to fight a powerful villian, everyone does their party piece and trade witticisms.
I did think that the Daleks didn't manage to live up to their reputation sadly. (Not that, in honestly - "Parting of the Ways" excepted - Daleks ever really manage to live up to the reputation that they are supposed to have) Even the Supreme Dalek was rather dissappointingly taken out rather tragically easily. Mind you, I got a laugh out of their response to being nuclear blackmailed - "yes-we-have-thought-of-that-sort-of-thing. Teleport-them-straight-to-the-nick. Leave-their-weapons-where-they-are".
I wasn't initially sure about the ending that Catherine Tate's character got. I can see what it is getting at - the Donna Noble that we have known ceases to exist, that person is indeed dead (in effect it is like an "anti-regeneration" - she turns back into an earlier version of herself). Viewed in the right light it has a nice line in tragedy. But it also reinforces the sense that New Doctor Who doesn't really believe in mortal jeopardy, not for anyone who isn't clearly marked as "monster-fodder". So I'm in two minds there.
In the end I never expected it to live up to "Parting of the Ways" either - even though it does actually re-tread quite a lot of the same ground (bonkers-Davros instead of God-Emperor Leto-Dalek, The Doctor using the Dalek's own "blow up the world" machine instead of building his own, the villian pointing out to the Doctor that he is a believer in pacifism until you call it a Time War...). It never really recaptured that sense of menace and desperation. But then, it was never trying to - it was strictly a romp, and judged on that level it succeeded in pretty much everything it set out to do.
(I was amazed that the tide of fannishness kept coming though - they even squeezed in the fan-favourite "six pilots" theory!)
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 6, 2008 20:34:07 GMT
(I was amazed that the tide of fannishness kept coming though - they even squeezed in the fan-favourite "six pilots" theory!) They even found room to reference Gwen Cooper's long-lost ancestor from the time of Charles Dickens. What do you find poo about 'The Parting of Ways', Phil? I think it's superb! Martin |
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Post by legios on Jul 6, 2008 20:38:56 GMT
(I was amazed that the tide of fannishness kept coming though - they even squeezed in the fan-favourite "six pilots" theory!) They even found room to reference Gwen Cooper's long-lost ancestor from the time of Charles Dickens. Indeed - that did make me smirk a little. They really only got away with that because Tennant's performance is ADHD-like enough in general that a rapid-fire digression like that doesn't seem _too_ forced. Karl |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jul 7, 2008 1:53:00 GMT
CAN'T FIND MY SPOILER BUTTON!!!! DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST EP YET!!!!! EDIT BUT I HAVE! - THE VOICE FROM ABOVE Dear God I thought it was AWEFULL!!!! AAAARGH!!! What a disapointment! I didn't want Tennant to go, but even him regenerating would have been better than that! Tooooo many characters doing toooo little. Craming in plot-points from other series ("Oh, by the way I just happen to have a Warp Star in my pocket, a super weapon, yeah didn't think to mention it before..."). Rose was terrible. TERRIBLE! Shouldn't have brought her back. It's like they brought her back for the sake of it. Not even going to go into her Mum being there! Empty end to Donna, after comming to like the character despite myself, oh sorry no she didn't actually happen after all. The whole myosis thing- sh1t. Why couldn't Donna be just an ordinary Human who's a hero and does brave things? Why this contrived idea of her fate being interwoven with the Doctor's? Two Doctors- WHAT?!?! Pants! Ridiculous! Huge Darlek army gets destroyed AGAIN! Every time the Darleks appear it seems, they get totally destroyed, only to reappear (have they made the Darleks too powerfull?). Utter over the top all happy at the end going off to join the other series. Urk! Martha's just about tollerable, but Mikey replacing Owen? F**K OFF! Reality bomb that destroys ALL matter? Crap story idea. And please please PLEASE someone tell me they DIDN'T tow the Earth back to it's normal place. Please! 'Cos that'd really be the worst thing I could ever imagine happening in this totally unfullfilling episode! Sorry, but I was so disapointed. So very disapointed. Last weeks ep offered so much. And this just ruined what had turned into a good season for me. Nugumph. Davros was cool though. |
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Post by legios on Jul 7, 2008 8:23:06 GMT
CAN'T FIND MY SPOILER BUTTON!!!! DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST EP YET!!!!! And please please PLEASE someone tell me they DIDN'T tow the Earth back to it's normal place. Please! 'Cos that'd really be the worst thing I could ever imagine happening in this totally unfullfilling episode! That's part of the "schtick" the new series has developed as it has gone on - it is tonally similar to part of Tom Baker's run in the original series, in the sense that the Doctor is a magic space alien who can produce a new magic power whenever it is handy for resolving the plot. (That said, it did amuse me intensely. It just smacked so much of the over the top nonsense that E.E Smith did in his books - effectively the Doctor just repeated the Boskonian trick of putting a big inertialess drive on a planet so he an fly it about like a space dirigible. It should certainly put paid to any remaining nonsense about New Doctor Who being a science-fiction show - it is mostly fantasy with a dollop of space-opera every so often. ) Karl |
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 7, 2008 8:56:15 GMT
CAN'T FIND MY SPOILER BUTTON!!!! DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST EP YET!!!! Dear God I thought it was AWEFULL!!!! AAAARGH!!! What a disapointment! I didn't want Tennant to go, but even him regenerating would have been better than that! Tooooo many characters doing toooo little. Craming in plot-points from other series ("Oh, by the way I just happen to have a Warp Star in my pocket, a super weapon, yeah didn't think to mention it before..."). Rose was terrible. TERRIBLE! Shouldn't have brought her back. It's like they brought her back for the sake of it. Not even going to go into her Mum being there! Empty end to Donna, after comming to like the character despite myself, oh sorry no she didn't actually happen after all. The whole myosis thing- sh1t. Why couldn't Donna be just an ordinary Human who's a hero and does brave things? Why this contrived idea of her fate being interwoven with the Doctor's? Two Doctors- WHAT?!?! Pants! Ridiculous! Huge Darlek army gets destroyed AGAIN! Every time the Darleks appear it seems, they get totally destroyed, only to reappear (have they made the Darleks too powerfull?). Utter over the top all happy at the end going off to join the other series. Urk! Martha's just about tollerable, but Mikey replacing Owen? F**K OFF! Reality bomb that destroys ALL matter? Crap story idea. And please please PLEASE someone tell me they DIDN'T tow the Earth back to it's normal place. Please! 'Cos that'd really be the worst thing I could ever imagine happening in this totally unfullfilling episode! Davros was cool though.
I think the main thing about this episode was showing the Doctor what he does to his companions and how others are forced to kill or be killed in order for him to up on his moral high ground.
For me it was the best part oft he episode and it just wouldnt have worked without Rose Mickey and Jackie, as they were the regulars for half the new run. Capt Jack was already a soldier type and Donna really hasnt become combat Donna to a great enough extent. So that would only leave Martha and Sarah Jane as examples. And Harriet Jones representing those who have had to die for the Doctor.
I didnt really enjoy the rest of the Rose stuff but then I was never keen on her character after Ecclestone left.
Second Doctor well it was better than the reset button death that most clone types get. It also leaves open the possibility an aged Tennant Doctor guesting in a Doctor Who in a couple of decades without dealing with temporal or explaining why he looks so much older (or worse trying to disguise the fact) than when he regenerated.
Martha and Mickey in Torchwood makes me happy as I thought Mickey was underused since the beginning and Martha loked good in her episodes of Torchwood.
As for the Donna stuff having come to like Donna I prefer this ending to her death if only for the fact it increases the chance of seeing Bernard Cribbins again.
Andy |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 7, 2008 10:14:12 GMT
RE: Final episode. Let's keep details in the spoiler tag until Friday's BBC 3 repeat, just to be fair.
-Mod Ralph
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Post by primenova on Jul 7, 2008 13:10:45 GMT
www.pontefractliquorice.co.uk/A life size Dalek made out of Liquorice - this is what I was looking at last saturday afternoon, the plunger is falling off. But can't find it on the site - it is located inside the museum.
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Hero
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Post by Hero on Jul 9, 2008 0:41:11 GMT
They even found room to reference Gwen Cooper's long-lost ancestor from the time of Charles Dickens. Martin There was'nt enough Gwen in the finale for my liking *swoon* I also agree with what you said earlier about Rose being brought back Martin. It just seemed like her coming back mountd to her making do with a carbon copy of her love interest and back where she left off. |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 9, 2008 9:28:03 GMT
And you just know the adventures of Rose and Doctor 10.5 will inspired many torrid fan-fics... -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 10, 2008 19:53:38 GMT
I just re-watched The Stolen Earth/Journey's End on iplayer, in one go. It works much better on second viewing, even if certain aspects of plot resolution remain hard to swallow. Fun to watch though, and Donna's demise is even more horrible when you know it's coming. -Ralph |
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Post by grahamthomson on Jul 11, 2008 8:25:09 GMT
Finally caught up with the last episode thanks to the wonder of BBC iPlayer. Really enjoyed it, though I felt a bit lost in the storyline somewhat. But that may be due to the fact I've not seen much of Torchwood or any of Sarah Jane Adventures.
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 12, 2008 11:35:10 GMT
The last two episodes of series 4 get another run on BBC1 on Sunday, from 5:35pm to 7:30pm. Unusual!
-Ralph
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Post by KnightBeat on Jul 13, 2008 23:55:44 GMT
This blog posting manages to summarise my feelings about the series 4 finale. |
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 14, 2008 8:46:46 GMT
Outpost Gallifrey has reported Sarah Jane Adventures will feature a two-ep return by the Brigadier. ROCK. |
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 14, 2008 9:13:50 GMT
This blog posting manages to summarise my feelings about the series 4 finale. I like their point on Stolen Earth: |
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Post by Bogatan on Jul 14, 2008 10:22:33 GMT
This blog posting manages to summarise my feelings about the series 4 finale. Oddly I agree with everything written there, but still managed to enjoy it. I think it helps not trying to think how much better it could have been. Andy |
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kayevcee
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Post by kayevcee on Jul 14, 2008 12:27:45 GMT
I got about three paragraphs in and had to stop reading. Somebody really needs to give that guy a cuddle.
-Nick
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