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Post by The Doctor on Jan 24, 2020 18:11:52 GMT
Theres less than a dozen episodes left, why are Voyager still trying to make Tuvok and Neelix and thing? How are Naomi and Seven the most convincing friendship the show managed? I kind of want Naomi to show up in Picard. Ask me about Naomi in the novels. -Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 24, 2020 18:14:02 GMT
Vic Fontaine is why TNG and Voyager are better than DS9. He is a show killer. -Ralph Voyager better than DS9? Who are you?? I prefer it if they are put together as a direct comparison. DS9 has a dodgy first couple of seasons and Vic Fontaine. Otherwise it's good but it's the Trek show I rewatch the least. -Ralph -Ralph
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Post by Toph on Jan 24, 2020 18:27:02 GMT
DS9 doesn't strike me as the type of trek that's good to just put on in the background and only mildly pay attention to, like TNG and Voyager are.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 24, 2020 19:11:27 GMT
Voyager better than DS9? Who are you?? I prefer it if they are put together as a direct comparison. DS9 has a dodgy first couple of seasons and Vic Fontaine. Otherwise it's good but it's the Trek show I rewatch the least. -Ralph -Ralph Have you rewatched Discovery? I can't say I have wanted to although I enjoyed it. Only a couple of episodes struck me as ones I would like to watch again.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 24, 2020 19:12:00 GMT
Theres less than a dozen episodes left, why are Voyager still trying to make Tuvok and Neelix and thing? How are Naomi and Seven the most convincing friendship the show managed? I kind of want Naomi to show up in Picard. Ask me about Naomi in the novels. -Ralph It's a TRAP!
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 24, 2020 19:46:58 GMT
I prefer it if they are put together as a direct comparison. DS9 has a dodgy first couple of seasons and Vic Fontaine. Otherwise it's good but it's the Trek show I rewatch the least. -Ralph -Ralph Have you rewatched Discovery? I can't say I have wanted to although I enjoyed it. Only a couple of episodes struck me as ones I would like to watch again. Disco may be rewatched soon if my other half likes it. -Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 24, 2020 19:55:27 GMT
Good plan.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 25, 2020 17:10:24 GMT
She got on ok with the S1 main trailer so it has been added to The List.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 25, 2020 21:01:28 GMT
3 episodes DS9 7 episodes Voyager Nemesis Trek 2009
PICARD
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 25, 2020 22:13:40 GMT
Come on... come on....
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 25, 2020 22:18:11 GMT
Almost there!
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 25, 2020 22:41:46 GMT
4 episodes of Voyager 3 episodes of Deep Space Nine 2 movies 1 episode of Picard
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 25, 2020 22:44:23 GMT
They lost another shuttle. Bad Voyager, bad. Look after your toys. But then DS9 just lost the Defiant so they cant talk either.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 25, 2020 22:52:51 GMT
The stick in the mud flight instructor is great.
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Post by Toph on Jan 26, 2020 3:43:05 GMT
The stick in the mud flight instructor is great. I absolutely loved that bit. It was so stupid, but in a real kind of way. And it makes me wonder why it took four entire treks, all of Babylon 5, six Star Wars, and a good chunk of Stargate SG1, before someone stumbled onto that gag. Granted it wouldn't have worked well with TNG. Wesley would have been too cliché, and Ro would have torn the guy's head off. But you know, it would have been equally fun with Sulu or O'Brien. And it's exactly the kind of humor that B5 and SG1 lived on.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 26, 2020 7:14:18 GMT
Oh god Tuvix is considered an entertaining story to tell a child. Did they tell Naomi the bit were he was dragged away at gunpoint after pleading not to be killed.
Fuck. Voyager.
Just when I was starting to warm to it.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 26, 2020 7:18:21 GMT
Ahahahahah! After seven years of being pissed off by him, I love that its Tuvok who convinces Neelix to leave.
Absolutely no ulterior motives there.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 26, 2020 10:57:30 GMT
Worf or Micheal Dorn is the weirdest thing in Trek. At least 50% of the time it seems as though Dorn has no acting ability what so ever and then he does something it strikes me *again* that he might just be the best performance in 55 years of Trek.
Minsk!
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 26, 2020 11:26:38 GMT
Well thats DS9 done. Gets me every time.
Lets see if Voyager is as bad as I remember. I haven't seen it for 18 or 19 years and Ive experienced Enterprises last episode in that time so this may need some revaluation.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 26, 2020 11:50:16 GMT
Wow the future Starfleet uniforms are not flattering.
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Post by Toph on Jan 26, 2020 13:13:14 GMT
Well thats DS9 done. Gets me every time. Lets see if Voyager is as bad as I remember. I haven't seen it for 18 or 19 years and Ive experienced Enterprises last episode in that time so this may need some revaluation. Given how much you've come to hate Janeway, I think your opinion will probably shift to it being worse than you remember
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 26, 2020 13:59:51 GMT
Yes, but no.
Janeway is the least of this episodes problems. (Actually since the crew started calling her out on her bullshit occasionally Im a lot less bothered by her than I was. It was always the fact that everyone treated her like she was perfect when she blatantly wasnt that bothered me rather than the character herself)
First off. Voyager did this episode with Harry and Chakotay like 2 years earlier. At least that version had added Geordi.
Another episode with a potentially interesting future that got whacked with a great big reset button.
Its also largely copying All Good Things but being not as good.
Its really mind bendingly dull.
The Borg are officially 100% neutered. Good going.
Convenient future tech solves all the present problems.
By the time they wrote this they new it was the end of the TNG era on TV, but rather than spend the time letting us know what happens to the crew all we get is Voyager pulling up at Earth.
As Ive said many time before, did anyone not just assume they were going to make it home by the end of the series? There were only 3 options make it home, die or Quantom Leap and they didn't have the guts to do either of the later.
TNG didn't need a wrap up as it was going on to movies. Voyager did. There were still a couple of dozen criminals on board that I dont believe were ever cleared ( or where they? last I remember was Starfleet wanting a report on the maquis crew). Did Harry remain an ensign forever (DS9 found time to promote Nog in the last episode). Did Naomi ever see her Mum ever again? Did any of the random lower deck characters get told they made it back or where they left skulking around forgotten corners of the ship till long after the next captain took over. We know Janeway didn't stick around so did Chakotay get promoted or did they not trust a maquis so gave it to a stranger? Imagine being that dude taking over. Or where the crew split up?
Who knows because the writers and producers didn't think any of that shit was important.
I guess the future scenes were supposed to be a guide to what happened, but that future is nowhere near close to what actually happened.
Enterprises ending was bad, but it was mostly bad because of how they framed the story. Take out the holodeck stuff and its broadly passable. Voyagers last episode is just bad. Theres no sense of danger. We dont learn anything new. Its the sort of episode I'd expect from a show that had been cancelled midseason and they suddenly had one episode to try and end it.
The only potentially interesting part of this is the what happened next and thats completely ignored. Arrrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......................Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.
I cant believe Im going to say this but Enterprises last episode is better than Voyagers.
Nemesis time. Thank Picard.
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Post by Toph on Jan 26, 2020 14:39:33 GMT
Maybe it's wrong of me, but I always assumed Voyager was pulled from active service, and either put in a museum, or used by Admiral Janeway as her personal transport (i can totally see that)
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 26, 2020 16:13:04 GMT
I agree. Likely it ended up in a museum or as some sort of display piece. And if not after 7 years it would probably be due an overhaul or a refit under normal circumstances even if they did send it back out so would be out of action for a year or so to accommodate that.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 26, 2020 16:13:44 GMT
Nemesis time. Thank Picard. This may be the first time somebody is grateful for Nemesis.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 26, 2020 17:08:22 GMT
In the original future it sends up a museum, but it was 23 years old and had never had a refit, it probably wouldn't be worth the effort by then. After 7 years and only 2 years after the dominion war I suspect they couldnt afford to retire a still relatively new ship. Especially one with various borg enhancements.
But yeah it would no doubt have been out of action for some time which would mean Janeway got promoted without taking it back out. Beyond that who knows Chakotay ends up Captain dating Seven or in prison. Or anywhere in between because after following a character for seven years who cares about little details like that. *sigh*
As I still havent seen Picard its possible Seven may give us a clue of at least his fate.
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 26, 2020 17:18:31 GMT
I do admire your sticking power here, Bogatan. This must be sending you bonkers.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 26, 2020 17:49:15 GMT
I do admire your sticking power here, Bogatan. This must be sending you bonkers. I'm glad its over. If Seven and the Borg didn't appear to be a major part of Picard I doubt I would have kept going. It just frustrates me beyond belief. I loved the pilot and watched it repeatedly when I got it on video and then the producers seemed to spend seven years actively saboutaging everything that should have been good about the show. Honestly though I could have ignored almost all of the problems if only the crew had been able to convince me they liked each other as much as the writers wanted us to feel they did. Harry and Tom are basically besties after the first episode and then just stay that way without ever being a sense of how or why they get on. Broadly speaking they should be as chalk and cheese as Bashir and O'brien, but theres none of the complexity of that releationship. Tom/Be'lana dont really have that much going on till suddenly they did and were in a relationship. Ditto Seven and Chakotay. All the group interactions seem really forced. Almost all are enforced work do's and meal breaks. Even the holodeck of the year seems like a forced everyone is awesome hellscape. And then theres Neelix who for some reason everyone is supposed to love. I don't hate Neelix but theres no way at least one member of the crew wouldnt have tried to murder him. On the plus side I had only seen most of the episodes once and over 20 years ago so I didn't have that sense of oh no not this one too often and a some of them were better than I remembered or actually good especially around seasons 4 and 5.
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Post by Toph on Jan 26, 2020 18:15:53 GMT
My theory: Tom/B'Elanna and Chakotay/Seven seem to be anti-homosexual relationships.
Burman is pretty famously homophobic, and reportedly couldn't stand same sex fanshipping. Janeway/Chakotay was pretty much the most popular ship, until Seven came around. Then it became Janeway/Seven. Then out of nowhere the producers give us Chakotay/Seven.
Tom/Harry was another popular ship. As it grew in popularity, they leaned into Tom/B'Elanna. Though this one did seem to resonate with the fandom, as there seem to be fewer Tom/Harry shippers. Personally, I'd have gone B'Elanna/Harry, myself. They had chemistry straight from the pilot.
(Please note I personally borderline hate "shipping" and absolutely despise the fandom drama around it, and I generally know far more about it than I wish I did.)
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Post by Toph on Jan 26, 2020 18:20:40 GMT
As for the finale not giving us a "what came next" for them, I'm pretty sure they were planning on using them in movies.
They made plans to mix TNG, and DS9 into future movies, and I think they planned to add voyager crew into them. Though the couple plots they talk about make me so glad we got Nemesis, and it ended there.
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