Masterforce

[Bogatan]

Does anyone still have dubbed versions of Masterforce and Victory that I could get a copy off? Ive still never watched either show and thinks its because I want to experience them like Headmasters, with a mix of sub and dub.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Nov 18, 2015 22:51:34 GMT blueshift said:

Nov 18, 2015 22:50:04 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Headmasters titles, and some of the bumpers (are there more?)

I always found it odd that Masterforce had two unique intros and yet Headmasters and Victory just had one.

Victory introduced most of its toy line in the first few episodes. Masterforce did it more gradually. It would have been odd to have Overlord and Godbomber on the opening titles several months before they appeared in the show. Even as it is, the appearance of Getaway and Ginrai in the original titles would have been all viewers got to see of them for the first couple of months of the series.

Victory was done on the cheap. Star Saber's drawn-out transformation sequence must have blown their budget, they had to re-use it for the titles and to pad out the majority of episodes.

Edit: This post is going to get moved, isn't it?

Martin

[Jim]

Ok, I am diving into this for the first time and just watched the first episode!

The opening music is more ballad-like than I was expecting, but catchy.

The boat sequence is surprisingly brutal; I was expecting to see lifeboats, then maybe a line of dialogue about survivors (however unlikely given what was onscreen), but no. I like it when the baddies are sold as an actual threat.

It looks very good, even if the quality of the transfer to DVD isn't so great; if it were somehow restored this would look amazing.

I like Lander's introduction, and his simple but effective transformation. He was pretty much the only one who got any characterisation at all aside from Hawk, but that's ok, and I like the (so far) small cast. It's not an overwhelming intro episode which is good.

The back story sounds promising; the Autobots taking the form of humans and the Decepticon demons feels very appropriate and mythological (and Japanese) and I always like when TF stories have a "hiding among us" angle".

The fight scenes are really good too.

This is a great start!

-Jim

[blueshift]

Keep us updated on your journey!

I remember it doesn't kick into gear until they start introducing the Godmasters, but then again some of the early eps have some great stuff!

And if you keep notes, that could be a good article in itself, with pre-conceptions (and splurging out 'what you think you know' about it vs how it ends up)

[Jim]

Episode 2 is not quite as good, not as cohesive, but it does continue to sell the Decepticon Pretenders as a real threat. I didn't expect Shuta's dad to be killed off.

The horror stuff at the start is surprising (demonic chanting resurrecting stolen human corpses!), and the Decepticon's lair is suitably hellish. I can see why Hasbro wouldn't have wanted to import and dub this at the time, aside from whether it fit with the US cartoon.

Magic seems to be a real thing here which Transformers use, which I'm not sure I've seen before in a Transformers series? I guess you can hand-wave with "sufficiently advanced technology" and all that, but that's not how it's written!

Cab was clearly being introduced as an ongoing character, and he seems quite likable (Shuta isn't the annoying brat I was fearing, either). I don't quite get the Karin Islands, but it's no big deal, the important stuff is in the dialogue.

Hawk is still generic hero leader, and it would be nice to spend more time with the others - both Lander and Diver are already more likeable just from glimpses.

-Jim

[blueshift]

Oh yeah the stuff with Shuta's dad was great, wasn't it. Forgot about that! Also on rewatches you'll spot some interesting stuff popping up in this ep and early on that becomes far more important later!

[Jim]

Less to say about episode 3; I like how the series is building slowly and setting things up. It feels more long-form than I expected. Case in point, the return of the zombies this episode which I expected was just a throw-away failed scheme never to be heard of again based on the beginning of the previous one, but they're back and improved (and capturing planes of living people to make into stronger zombies is suitably macabre). Poor Trevi fountain.

It's early days with Minerva; there are signs of her being potentially annoying but so far they've done a decent job with the boys.

I continue to like the use of Seacons as cannon fodder. It makes me wonder how many potential Piranacons there are out there... Though I don't think we've seen Snaptrap yet, so maybe there's just one of him with lots of limbs...

Incidental music is good!

It's a small detail, but I liked that Metalhawk's exit from the new Autobot base is a cave with a waterfall tumbling out of it into a lush green forest. It feels... nice.

-Jim

[Jim]

Episode 4, here come the Headmaster Jrs!

Minerva isn't annoying in herself, but she mostly seems to have to hang back while the boys do stuff, which is disappointing.

I like the hints at the broader picture with Chromedome off-world with the other Autobots fighting what sounds like a tough, if not losing, war.

Metalhawk pointing out that he expects them to learn a lesson at a time and make mistakes was refreshing, I expected more conflict. He seems like a good teacher!

It says something about the previous episodes that I wasn't 100% sure the baby would make it!

-Jim

[duffism1981]

A slight spolier but Turtler (Snaptrap) is the only sentient Seacon with the rest being expendable drone types.

[The Doctor]

Aug 27, 2017 20:03:43 GMT Jim said:

Episode 4, here come the Headmaster Jrs!

Minerva isn't annoying in herself, but she mostly seems to have to hang back while the boys do stuff, which is disappointing.

I like the hints at the broader picture with Chromedome off-world with the other Autobots fighting what sounds like a tough, if not losing, war.

Metalhawk pointing out that he expects them to learn a lesson at a time and make mistakes was refreshing, I expected more conflict. He seems like a good teacher!

It says something about the previous episodes that I wasn't 100% sure the baby would make it!

-Jim

It is a series which has the feel of 'there are no safe characters' which is quite a feat to pull off in what is essentially a vehicle to sell children's toys!

-Ralph

[blueshift]

Aug 27, 2017 20:03:43 GMT Jim said:

Minerva isn't annoying in herself, but she mostly seems to have to hang back while the boys do stuff, which is disappointing.

Don't despair, that's deliberate and gets addressed!

[Jim]

Indeed, it's already made up for in the next episode!

Episode 5 is excellent, the gradual build up is paying off. The series is turning out to be much more well-written than I expected; I thought it would be a bit more chaotic and over-stuffed with characters, with largely stand-alone episodes and a making-it-up-as-it-goes-along 80s cartoon kind of writing. I was very wrong!

The Decepticons Headmastes start to get a back story, and it's not entirely unempathetic with Wilder the survivor of a rival bike gang moving in on his gang's turf. Given how Shuta was roundly put down by Metalhawk for his "eye for an eye" bit in the previous episode it's a nice touch that Wilder explicitly says he wants "an eye for an eye" here.

Minerva's character arc is good here; saving the dog in the holographic sim but then failing in real life (they actually killed the dog!) was a bit of a twist on the stock story. Pis the dog is her Uncle Ben!

Good action pieces here too - there's a nice Shuta transformation early on, Cab's offensive use of his fire engine mode (first the foam, then using the ladder as a club), and Diver's here-comes-the-cavalry moment were great.

There's also a nice comedy moment where Minerva compares Cab and Shuta to animals just before the door opens and Hawk comes in, and he assumes they're excited because they think he has a mission for them.

I am also warming to the Autobot Pretenders' roles as the experienced warriors and level-headed teachers.

This is really great!

-Jim

[Jim]

Episode 6 is pretty good, too.

Wilder's beating of Chris is surprisingly brutal and bloody. The Headmaster Jrs get to shine, and again there are some good action sequences. Is Minerva the first of them to make use of a gun? She does it wonderfully casually!

More gradual mythology building with the glowing orb in the Decepticon's lair doing something active; I'd wondered what was up with it. That "three energies" thing seems significant, too.

I am becoming a fan of the incidental music; is the super-expensive History of Music box set the only way it has ever been released?

-Jim

[blueshift]

Aug 28, 2017 10:52:43 GMT Jim said:

Episode 6 is pretty good, too.

Wilder's beating of Chris is surprisingly brutal and bloody. The Headmaster Jrs get to shine, and again there are some good action sequences. Is Minerva the first of them to make use of a gun? She does it wonderfully casually!

More gradual mythology building with the glowing orb in the Decepticon's lair doing something active; I'd wondered what was up with it. That "three energies" thing seems significant, too.

I am becoming a fan of the incidental music; is the super-expensive History of Music box set the only way it has ever been released?

-Jim

There was an even more rarer Japanese record in the 80s!

I have all of History of Music, pretty sure I got it from someone here?


One of my beef with all of the fandubs of this show so far is that they change the music. The music's amazing!!!!

[blueshift]

You know, one thing I really appreciate about the show is that

SPOILER: Click to show

the Autobots don't actually know who their enemy is for a large part of it. We the audience see the Decepticons all palling about and being a proper family unit, but the Autobots don't even realise Giga and Mega exist until episode 24 where Overlord shows up to mash Ginrai into paste. Hawk probably thinks their main problem is still the Decepticon Pretenders and the approaching Black Zarak.

Do they even know they're up against Devil-Z until they storm the Decepticon base near the end of the show?

(spoilering mid-show stuff for Jim and anyone else who hasn't seen it!)

[Jim]

Episode 7; this was fairly generic, but at least it was well done - the African park ranger's anguish was even a bit moving. It is very much Kid's Cartoon Africa though, and you have to smile at the narrator's closing "Africa - may it ever be peaceful!".

It was good to see the Autobot Pretenders interact with one another and show some character.

-Jim

[blueshift]

Aug 28, 2017 19:02:07 GMT Jim said:

Episode 7; this was fairly generic, but at least it was well done - the African park ranger's anguish was even a bit moving. It is very much Kid's Cartoon Africa though, and you have to smile at the narrator's closing "Africa - may it ever be peaceful!".

It was good to see the Autobot Pretenders interact with one another and show some character.

-Jim

I can't really remember much about episode 7 apart from it's an 'animals in danger!' episode. The show starts to ramp up as they introduce the Godmasters, and it's clear the showrunners get a handle on which characters are interesting and worth concentrating on.

[Jim]

Speaking of which, episode 8...

Skullgrin running through the field in the morning fretting about being late is a great image!

It feels odd taking Dreadwind and Darkwing (well, Buster and Hydra) seriously. The new threat of the Decepticon Godmasters is played up well, and Hawk looks very concerned, but it sort of fizzles out when they are beaten a little too easily. I was expecting them to make more of an impact - if not win, then at least cause some serious damage.

The kids continue to be likeable and are noticeably growing more confident and capable as Headmasters which stands in nice contrast to the Decepticon Headmasters (who are clearly bullied and intimidated by their Pretenders unlike the Autobots who are encouraged and nurtured).

More tantalising hints at the mythology - to whom do the Decepticon Pretenders report? What is the role of the glowing orb in their lair?

-Jim

[blueshift]

I really liked episode 8 (especially how they introduce the Godmasters) but yeah the Decepticons do pretty much retreat for the sole reason the episode is up (I guess you can assume they were just testing out the Autobot's abilities??)

Godmasters are pretty ridiculously overpowered. That's why I love them!

I think the biggest revelation is that Buster is male!!

Edit: screencap from the intro. I mean, come on!!

[Jim]

Looking at it in isolation like that, definitely! I already knew the title of the episode though, so I guess I just took him to be that androgynous anime type.

Episode 9; the big fight here (and it's a good one) feels more like what I expected from the previous episode with some large scale destruction and a near miss for the Autobots. If you treat them as a two-parter with the first encounter being a test like Blueshift suggested it works better, I think. The Autobot Pretenders' anxiety over the Godmasters is sold well.

Lord Giga and Lady Mega moving to the Pretender's base was good, and I enjoyed Mega's response to overhearing Gilmer's comment about her expecting her to get "hysterical" - calmly demonstrating her power by getting him to be a "punching bag" for Cancer. That was a nice touch.

Giga and Mega appear to be in charge, so I remain curious about the glowing orb. Don't spoil me!

-Jim

[blueshift]

Episode nine helps to sell the Godmaster brothers more, I remember liking Shuta's little breakdown at the end.

Also I love how the Decepticons feel like a proper init, just like the Autobots do. It's a different dynamic than Megatron plus stooges.

[Jim]

Yeah, the dynamics generally are refreshingly different. That's something I also liked about the first season of Animated.

[Jim]

Episode 10! Much smaller cast here for the introduction of Ginrai, and it works well, letting us get to know Ginrai before the Godmaster reveal. And he's quite likeable too, an ex-pat Japanese trucker who moved to America for the open space is a good idea.

The Godmasters being descendants of Mega and Giga is potentially interesting. The series really is unafraid to embrace mysticism with the mention of the Decepticon God, and it's interesting to me that the Autobots don't seem to have an equivalent.

I thought this series and Headmasters before it was a continuation of the G1 cartoon continuity, so it seems odd to me that Diver wouldn't remark on the resemblance between Ginrai's Godmaster and Optimus Prime, who was presumably very well known?

-Jim

[blueshift]

They do touch on the reason for the resemblance in the clip show ova (don't think that's on the DVD but I can link it, it's pretty much just two characters explaining plot queries over clips, but has some interesting info

I don't think Optimus had quite the same mythic weight in Japan. He was pretty much just some guy in a long line of commanders, rather than the greatest who ever lived

[Jim]

Ah, that's a good reason, I like that and I think it's related to one of the things I like about this series - a bunch of characters that I imagine lots of people would dismiss as "nobodies". That period of the franchise post-movie is really great, I was thinking about this while watching an instalment of McFeely's The Basics the other day. I wonder how much of a fan I'd be if it weren't for the explosion of new characters and ideas with the movie clearing the slate.

Episode 11 - I always knew golf was the sport of evil people.

It's good to see the Autobot Pretenders hanging out in human form with Ginrai; Lander collects wine but does not drink! And yet Diver goes to chill the wine anyway...

I guess Ginrai's Kabuki moment is something that would make more sense to Japanese audiences.

Hawk dropping in on the Headmaster Jrs' tree house is nice.

Channelling Spielberg's best movie here with the mysterious aggressive big truck. The series is still unafraid of human collateral damage.

Even though there's a lot of action and a predictable arc for Ginrai, this episode is pretty good for character moments.

-Jim

[blueshift]

!!!! I'd forgotten all about the golf ball scene!!!

[Jim]

Episode 12! A lot happens here...

Great opening dream sequence. So there are four more Godmasters; I am assuming the three Autobot Powermasters + Overlord? Would that mean no Doubledealer? Boo... (rhetorical questions, don't spoil me!)

Taking a ship to Japan seemed a bit old-school until I twigged he needed to take the truck. The show has been quite good about those kind of practicalities, e.g. Diver having to be Lander's passenger last episode.

(It just occurred to me Phoenix is a bit the odd one out so far; everything seems to happen with Hawk, Diver and Lander and one of them will say "I'll contact Phoenix" if there's a situation. This observation is irrelevant to this episode though...)

Kidnapping Cancer was unexpected, and also a good idea, and his relationship with Minerva was well handled. Lady Mega's coddling of him at the end was fun and it really humanises the characters.

The fight scene at the end is more played for comedy; this is good, because we've already had a few serious ones with the Godmasters, the point of it was more about Cancer / Minerva, and it was actually funny.

Ginrai's comments on moving to America make me think there is a bit of an immigrant theme generally. Maybe I can contribute an essay to the fanzine, "Super-god Masterforce and the Immigrant Experience".

Anyway, another good one.

[Jim]

Episode 13, more good stuff here.

Characterisation is strong again with the humans on both sides.

The black wall the construction workers find while tunnelling is a nice image; it put me in mind of Quatermass and the Pit and the terrifying alien craft at the tube station (just thinking about that will probably give me nightmares tonight).

The big fight is excellent once again, and uses the characters well - Ginrai getting by on sheer power and a bit of luck, Metalhawk taking on more powerful opponents using skill and experience (and it's well choreographed, too).

This show is just so well made. I really wasn't expecting it.

[blueshift]

Aug 29, 2017 21:17:38 GMT Jim said:

This show is just so well made. I really wasn't expecting it.

Yeah, especially sandwiched between Headmasters and Victory, which are pretty generic

[Jim]

Episode 14; Ginrai goes public to find the remaining Godmasters, and Hydra and Buster turn it against him to discredit him. Pretty decent, but not a lot to say about it.

I liked Sam, giving Ginrai the benefit of the doubt and somehow smuggling a bottle of gin into his hospital room!

The Decepticon Orb speaks!

-Jim