Star Wars

[Bogatan]

Ahahahahahahahah! Jar JAr just flying punched some kid.

[The Doctor]

Nov 8, 2015 14:46:50 GMT Fortmax2020 said:

Or the illogic of Shockwave!

My girlfriend had now watched Episode IV for the first time.

I hope you called it by the true name (Star Wars) rather than the pish-made up name of A New Hope (added after the original release, fact fans).

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

Of course.

[Andy Turnbull]

Good.

But I must smite you for calling Star Wars by the wrong name in your forum post.

[Bogatan]

Ignoring everyone elses posts, but sat down on Monday and watched Episode 3 fo the first time since cinema 10 years ago. In my memory it was the high point of the prequels but after rewatching all 3 and clone wars I think it might actually be the weakest part on the whole.

Theres nothing as awful as every scene between Anakin and Padme in Episode 2, though they arent much better, but overall it feels rushed. Anakin is a dick, but his change just too sudden. Yoda and Obi Wan seem to give up largely because the plot requires them too rather than because its in keeping with either character. Obi Wan had just won and Yoda had barely lost to the emporer. Now was the time to take out the Emporer, not go in to hiding for 20 years. It might have made sense if Obi Wan had been serious injured in the battle, but no.

And the less said about Padmes death....

Clone Wars was amazing though, really salvages a lot of the movies.

[Bogatan]

Gotta watch rebels season 1 nd whats aired of 2 then the original trilogy now.

[blueshift]

Nov 11, 2015 19:30:21 GMT Bogatan said:

Ignoring everyone elses posts, but sat down on Monday and watched Episode 3 fo the first time since cinema 10 years ago. In my memory it was the high point of the prequels but after rewatching all 3 and clone wars I think it might actually be the weakest part on the whole.

I'm the same. I liked it best at the time, but in hindsight, yeesh.

[Bogatan]

The Anakin/Padme parts utterly ruin 2* so against all percieved wisdom it's episode 1 that is standing up best. I have to admit that I might have been the only person over the age of 16 that actually enjoyed it to start with and actually liked Jar Jar, but it still holds up. The only really bad parts are Anakins "Oh the ships on autopilot and is taking me exactly where I need to be to save the day, woohooo!" and then I honestly was wondering if the director had misinterpreted the script and the lines were meant to be read in a more knowing, sarcastic or something else kind of way. Then I realised Lucas wrote and directed it. So its a straight up choice between Lucas or the kid wwere that bad.

Oh and the CGI is looking a little ropey too.

*I still say re-edit episode 2 focussing almost entirely on Kenobis story and leave only enough of the other story to make sense of their presense in the finale and it would be a cracking movie.

[blueshift]

Nov 11, 2015 21:34:58 GMT Bogatan said:

The Anakin/Padme parts utterly ruin 2* so against all percieved wisdom it's episode 1 that is standing up best.

Again, me too! I genuinely think Episode 1 is the best film of the prequel trilogy, though it's more 'winning by default' than 'best'. It could have been a good film with a bit more brutal editing. 2 and 3 are fundamentally flawed, I think.

(I've said it before and I'll say it again. Qui-Gonn should have survived and taken on the role of Dooku. Grevious shouldn't have been in it at all. With that change, suddenly half the problems are fixed).

[Bogatan]

Yeah it would have tied together the three films better and allowed for a more believable change to the dark side for Anakin, but would have required a convincing turning of Quigonn too.

I was surprised on rewatching just how disconnected 1 is from 2 and 3. 2 TCW and 3 are teh prequels while 1 feels like part of a prequel prequel trilogy and I suppose the time diference between 1 and 2 isnt that much less than between 3 and 4 so it almost is.

[blueshift]

Nov 11, 2015 21:52:12 GMT Bogatan said:

Yeah it would have tied together the three films better and allowed for a more believable change to the dark side for Anakin, but would have required a convincing turning of Quigonn too.

Well, the whole point of Qui-Gon was that he was this maverick Jedi as opposed to all the other old stuffy Jedi. The whole point of Dooku was that he was this powerful old Jedi that all the characters trust because he was such a nice guy in the past and has a great rep, but we've never heard of him before. They're basically the same character. It's not crazy for someone like Qui-Gon to set up with the Trade Federation to bring down the Sith that's controlling the Republic.

(See, Dooku's explanation that that was what he was doing to Obi-Wan in 2 felt interesting. Like, he was a good guy too and knew more of what was going and taking a stand against it but inadvertently got tricked by Palpatine too. Then they made him an evil Sith at the end for no reason, and that didn't affect the plot at all in any way shape or form and just made it less interesting).

[Andy Turnbull]

When we rewatched the trilogies again, we all agreed (Burns, Nick and myself) that The Phantom Menace does hold up better than the other two.

Making Qui Gon a villain would have been better, but still we got Christopher Lee so not all bad.

Grievous was a horrible mistake though.

Andy

[Jim]

Nov 11, 2015 23:02:08 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

When we rewatched the trilogies again, we all agreed (Burns, Nick and myself) that The Phantom Menace does hold up better than the other two.

Making Qui Gon a villain would have been better, but still we got Christopher Lee so not all bad.

Grievous was a horrible mistake though.

Grievous is rescued by Clone Wars; he's a genuinely imposing villain in there and there are some great lightsaber duels with him - he should have just been in that series so that his death could be in there too.

Similarly, Dooku has some good stuff in there. In fact, Jar Jar too - there's at least one really good episode built around him saving the day basically with slapstick.

I recently saw the season 6 / lost episodes, and it struck me what a weirdly toned series it is given how you know what's coming. There's an arc where a clone discovers that something's not quite right after another has an illness which prematurely triggers his murder of a Jedi, and it's almost unbearable given the inevitability of how it will play out.

-Jim

[Bogatan]

The Lost Missions do play like the show knew it was ending, chucking out all the stuff that will make what happens in 3 make more sense. So I was surprised to read that it was just what was finished when Disney axed the show. The end of season 5 also makes it seem like the show was meant to be ending soon, when they already had scripts for season 9 in the works.

I guess its just luck they had decided to deal with the the clones programming and Yoda learning to live forever, because both do massively improve the end of episode 3.

[Philip Ayres]

I never minded Grievous that much. Seen worse things.

Phantom Menace holds up v well I think: what you have to remember is what's on screen is all smoke and mirrors for what's actually going on in the film. One of my friends where I was working completely failed to get that Palpatine was Sidious and both were the Emperor which means all that passed her by.

Clones: The Kamino stuff is good as is everything from about when the arena battle starts. Definitely from "This party's over" and VERY definitely when Yoda shows up on the Gunship.

There's some good stuff in Sith, mostly involving lots of clones and Jedi dying, and I like the generally darker tone but bits of it aren't holding up well at all.

[blueshift]

Nov 12, 2015 12:26:52 GMT Philip Ayres said:

I never minded Grievous that much. Seen worse things.

My issue with Grevious is that he comes out of nowhere and is suddenly in charge of the baddies and everyone is worried about him. He basically replaced Dooku and doesn't add anything new. It feels like they fell out with Christopher Lee and just replaced him with Dooku v2 even though that's clearly not true.

[The Doctor]

Yep. Using the back half of your second film to set up a big new villain only for him to be killed off 10 mins into the third one to be replaced by someone else who you have to have watched a cartoon to know who he is...is not good storytelling. But George said it was all planned out the whole time coughbullshitcough.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

SW Parody LP covers

www.instagram.com/whythelongplayface/

A work of genius

[Philip Ayres]

Star Wars Detours: the lost sw tv show

screencrush.com/lost-star-wars-tv-show-detours/

[Andy Turnbull]

Prequels rewatched again.

The Phantom Menace is still the best of the three, Clones is nigh unwatchable when Anakin and Padme are on screen together. Sith is a mess but less painful than Clones.

Andy

[Bogatan]

Watch yourself some Clone wars, they make everything better.

[The Doctor]

Before that watch the Holiday Special and of course the two amazing live action Ewoks films.

-Ralph

[Baron B of Triple B]

Dec 27, 2015 18:43:45 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

Prequels rewatched again.

The Phantom Menace is still the best of the three, Clones is nigh unwatchable when Anakin and Padme are on screen together. Sith is a mess but less painful than Clones.

Andy

ROTS isn't that bad. The opening is good and the last hour or so is compelling with Anakin's turn to the dark side. If you sidestep the acting then it's not bad.

AOTC is atrocious. I watched it last week before TFA, it was the first time I watched it since the cinema and I hadn't remembered it being that terrible. It's like watching a video game that hadn't been scripted properly. Everything is just bland CGI with no thought given to any of the characters. Padme fancying Anakin is creepy as hell after TPM as well.

[blueshift]

Dec 27, 2015 23:47:34 GMT Baron B of Triple B said:

ROTS isn't that bad. The opening is good and the last hour or so is compelling with Anakin's turn to the dark side. If you sidestep the acting then it's not bad.

In many ways, though I feel thats the one I liked most coming out of the cinema, it's the one that's fared worst with me on a fridge logic scale.

Mainly its the way they just chuck Christopher Lee and then replace him with an identical villain for no reason but to sell more toys. Also the entire plot requires every single character apart from Sidious to be a complete idiot. It's the sort of plot that would never have happened if it wasn't a prequel. Can you imagine an original film with such a nonsensical plot? ("Let's not fight the chief villain together! Let's just give up! Let's give this baby away!")

[Baron B of Triple B]

Dec 28, 2015 0:04:25 GMT blueshift said:

Dec 27, 2015 23:47:34 GMT Baron B of Triple B said:

ROTS isn't that bad. The opening is good and the last hour or so is compelling with Anakin's turn to the dark side. If you sidestep the acting then it's not bad.

In many ways, though I feel thats the one I liked most coming out of the cinema, it's the one that's fared worst with me on a fridge logic scale.

Mainly its the way they just chuck Christopher Lee and then replace him with an identical villain for no reason but to sell more toys. Also the entire plot requires every single character apart from Sidious to be a complete idiot. It's the sort of plot that would never have happened if it wasn't a prequel. Can you imagine an original film with such a nonsensical plot? ("Let's not fight the chief villain together! Let's just give up! Let's give this baby away!")

Almost all of it was in keeping with the prequel way of doing Star Wars though. Nothing's explained. Nothing flows. The dialogue is abominable. Every good villain is disposed of by an inferior, just because. You hate all the good guys. You hate guy who becomes Darth Vader but not in the intended way yet you need to watch because you know what it leads to.

[blueshift]

Dec 28, 2015 0:27:00 GMT Baron B of Triple B said:

Almost all of it was in keeping with the prequel way of doing Star Wars though. Nothing's explained. Nothing flows. The dialogue is abominable. Every good villain is disposed of by an inferior, just because. You hate all the good guys. You hate guy who becomes Darth Vader but not in the intended way yet you need to watch because you know what it leads to.

That's not a good thing though! I still maintain that they should have kept Qui-Gonn alive and replaced Dooku with him. It's the same character anyway! And get rid of Grevious, or have him as the no. 2 villain in 2 and 3.

Or... anything. God.

God.

Still need to see the new film.

[Baron B of Triple B]

Dec 28, 2015 0:29:18 GMT blueshift said:

Dec 28, 2015 0:27:00 GMT Baron B of Triple B said:

Almost all of it was in keeping with the prequel way of doing Star Wars though. Nothing's explained. Nothing flows. The dialogue is abominable. Every good villain is disposed of by an inferior, just because. You hate all the good guys. You hate guy who becomes Darth Vader but not in the intended way yet you need to watch because you know what it leads to.

That's not a good thing though! I still maintain that they should have kept Qui-Gonn alive and replaced Dooku with him. It's the same character anyway! And get rid of Grevious, or have him as the no. 2 villain in 2 and 3.

Or... anything. God.

God.

Still need to see the new film.

I'd have gone the other way if you're heading in that direction. Lee has charm, presence and captivity that Neeson can only dream about.

I like Grievous as a character but nothing about him is made clear. What the hell is he? Where did he come from? Who has he been taking out? Why has he been taking them out?

It's frustrating but it's quintessentially prequel.

[blueshift]

Dec 28, 2015 0:38:33 GMT Baron B of Triple B said:

I like Grievous as a character but nothing about him is made clear. What the hell is he? Where did he come from? Who has he been taking out? Why has he been taking them out?

It's frustrating but it's quintessentially prequel.

I really liked Grevious before the film came out, but he's such a nothing character. It really feels like they just did a copy/paste and replaced all Christopher Lee's lines with him! Suddenly Grevious, not Dooku was in charge of the rebellion and it was him who they needed to defeat and he was doing everything.


Harvest of Kairos all over again

[Shockprowl]

Dec 27, 2015 18:43:45 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

Prequels rewatched again.

The Phantom Menace is still the best of the three, Clones is nigh unwatchable when Anakin and Padme are on screen together. Sith is a mess but less painful than Clones.

Andy

I think if you took the best bits out of all three you'd get one decent film. I like the Maul lightsaber fight, I like Qui-Gon, I like the mystery of the clone army, I like the way Sidious slowly builds his plan for galactic domination and ultimate victory, I loved the huge battle at the end of AOTC, I loved the fights against Dooku, and Dooku himself, and was shocked by his early death (although the rest of the film needed him), I liked Sidious/Palpatine, and I like Anakin and Obi-Wan's fatefull duel. It's just all of it could -should- have been better. The cgi was not as good as more practical effects, some of the acting was poor, but mainly it was the overall plot arch, he just didn't get it right, it doesn't fit. And Anakin's fall, for me, was unconvincing. He went from being a fairly nice and heroic guy to brutally killing small children in the blink of an eye. And yeah, Anakin and Padame's love story was TERRIBLE.

[Shockprowl]

Dec 28, 2015 0:29:18 GMT blueshift said:

Dec 28, 2015 0:27:00 GMT Baron B of Triple B said:

Almost all of it was in keeping with the prequel way of doing Star Wars though. Nothing's explained. Nothing flows. The dialogue is abominable. Every good villain is disposed of by an inferior, just because. You hate all the good guys. You hate guy who becomes Darth Vader but not in the intended way yet you need to watch because you know what it leads to.

That's not a good thing though! I still maintain that they should have kept Qui-Gonn alive and replaced Dooku with him. It's the same character anyway! And get rid of Grevious, or have him as the no. 2 villain in 2 and 3.

Or... anything. God.

God.

Quoted for Truth, Blue', you brainy son-of-a-blaster.

Qui-Gon being manipulated into turning against the Republic would have been a convincing way for Anakin's fall to begin. Dooku could have still been in it, as a Sith. It also lacked a real motivation for Anakin to hate the Jedi. They needed to abandon or forbid him freeing the slaves on Tatoine (which he said he wanted to do but never did), with Obi-Wan the only one willing to help, which in turn would have allowed Obi-Wan to later convince Anakin to leave and help fight in the Clone Wars.