Politics

[blueshift]

Frankly I think it's still strange that everyone is running around claiming countries aren't trying to interfere in other country's elections. Of course they are! Who isn't at it?

[Toph]

Well, the FBI has been running a criminal investigation of the Trump Administration's ties to Russia.

Today Trump had Attorney General Pete Sessions fire FBI Director James Comey (and chief investigator on this matter).
The reason cited is Comey "disgracing" Hillary Clinton over the Email Investigation (that's some titanium chrome balls, right there).

They did not inform Comey, or the FBI. They announced it to the news before they told the FBI. Comey found out from TV.

Just to put the gravity of this in context, this happened once before in american history.
Nixon had the FBI Director fired for his investigation of the White House Taped.
Nixon ordered the Attorney General to fire him. He refused and resigned. Nixon then ordered the Deputy AT. HE refused, and resigned. Nixon kept going down the ladder until the director was fired.
Three days later Nixon resigned.

*This* is what broke Nixon.

And now we wait and see if Trump survives what ended Nixon.

[blueshift]

I feel that we have already passed Nixon. Politicians have realised that the public is very passive and even outrage is impotent. Everyone is getting away with far more on a daily basis.

[legios]

I'm not entirely convinced that it was the act of firing the Director that ended Nixon's tenure - I think it was the fact that the machinery of state effectively refused the orders. What happened in that case had very much the appearance of the President issuing illegal orders and the legal establishment refusing to follow them, which combined with the fact that much of the country already felt that Nixon was conducting criminal activities and defaming the Presidency made it merely the final straw in making his presidency untenable. In this case the appearance of it is more that the President did something that looks unwarranted, but the rest of the machinery of state supported him and accepted that it was a legal order. Whilst in practice it may well be the same thing - a very partisan backstab to remove someone who won't simply come to heel, shut up and do what he was told, the context around it has a different feel.

I'd love to see it bring the current US Presidency to an end - mostly for the fact that it'd be a shame for Trump to get to finish his campaign of making himself massively rich whilst in office (presumably he already has his "hide the money in a tax haven so it can't be confiscated if I ever lose power" scheme sorted out - after all, there are enough banana republics in history for him to learn that lesson from you would think). I'm not certain that the circumstances are right for it to have the same effect as in the Nixon case, sadly, though.

Karl

[Toph]

Oh my goooood... inept press secretary Sean Spicer HID IN THE BUSHES ON THE WHITEHOUSE LAWN in the wake of the Comey firing, while white house aids searched for him.

They just finished a press briefing, and he wasn't giving it. It was his underling, and she was actually competent.

You can't make this up.

(As for Nixon, I know it was everything building, but it was the Saturday Night Massacre that was the final straw. Nothing like that had ever happened. And it just screamed out his guilt, as it does Chump)

[The Doctor]

We live in Interesting Times.

-Ralph

[Bogatan]

Its the hope that kills you.

My Dad has been very anti labour for the last few years and fully bought in to the anti corbyn narrative, yesterday hes watching the news which is covering Labours manifesto and... he didn't hate it. Literally one less than normally biased bbc news programme covering the actual events of the day was enough get him to at least consider an alternative to the tory version of Labour.

And it kind of felt like that was a commonish reaction.

I know it will still all end in a tory landslide next month, but just for a moment it was nice to feel a little bit of hope.

[The Doctor]

The BBC coverage of the election thus far does not feel impartial at all. For one thing, why are they still giving so much coverage to UKIP, who have NO MP's???

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

BBC coverage is heavily biased towards UKIP, err I mean the Conservatives.. sorry, Team T. They have some sort of nonsense line that they are covering UKIP as over the last two major elections they had a siginificant national result. Like the Greens. Who they are not covering.

[browny87]

ill be voting labour, i have no hope of them winning or even gaining any ground on the tories but as a public sector worker i can't vote for anyone else. The amount of naive people who vote Tory is terrifying, if/when they privatise the NHS ill move to spain or somewhere, its about the only benefit the government gives us!

[The Doctor]

Ah but free movement in the EU will be gone so no moving to Spain!

-Ralph

[browny87]

damn,ah well sucky Britain it is

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I'd love to see more Green MPs, and UKIP are the last party I'd vote for, but I disagree with the accusations of bias the BBC predictably get from all sides. No-one on this forum appears to think they have a left-wing bias, so I don't feel I need to address that here, but as for the alleged right-wing bias, I would point out that UKIP, unlike the Green Party, have Assembly Members in Wales and MEPs in Brussels because Wales and Europe have fairer (more proportionate) voting systems than Westminster. They don't have MPs only because it's first past the post.

Plus, Brexit is a big election issue, and even if you think everything they say about it is wrong, Brexit is UKIP's issue. If the election was called for environmental reasons, I'm sure the Greens would be front and centre.

I have great sympathy for the BBC at times like this!

Martin

[The Doctor]

I have no sympathy for the BBC and am angry beyond words that my licence fee money is used so they can promote racist hate organisations such as UKIP.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

This Tweet chain from a Guardian journalist on the links between Pro Leave and Trump' campaign makes interesting reading

[The Doctor]

As usual, nowt on the BBC. We can't be seen to upset our Tory masters, can we...

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Plenty of stuff in the right-wing papers that the BBC don't give time to either, to cries of bias from the right.

And I give you bbccomplaints.com/

I repeat my boring view that I think they have the balance right. Which doesn't mean the balance is in line with my own political views, which would be more in line with those represented by the Guardian. I know I'm left of centre, and the BBC would certainly be biased if it was aligned with my views.

Reading the Guardian sometimes makes me feel uncomfortable because it feeds my existing views. If everyone gets their facts from like-minded media outlets and commentators, it is a self-reinforcing cycle, and it's just as much a problem on the right. I prefer to trust outlets that allow competing views airtime. Though those outlets are accused of bias from both sides. And it does mean I have to put up with hearing from token climate sceptic scientists from time to time.

Martin

[Philip Ayres]

Just Voted!

[The Doctor]

Whatever your political views, Hubbers, please vote this week.

-Ralph

[browny87]

as a public sector worker I have to vote Labour(there are other parties available).I get that most people will but I just cannot fathom why people would vote for Teresa May, Corbyn isn't ideal but he doesn't shirk any appearances/repeat the same robotic 5 phrases/deliberately ignore any questions and wheel out a political party line.

I get people voting Farron - he's charismatic and fun.
I get people voting for Natalie Bennett - she was great in the debate and came across strong
I get people voting for Sturgeon and the SNP - I understand the process behind that
I get people voting for Labour - more people are struggling and having trouble with finances/living etc
I kind of understand people voting UKIP - Christ we voted to leave the EU so it proves there's a lot of "naïve" people

I don't get why people keep voting Tory, there aren't enough people in the UK who are influenced by their policies to benefit, it befuddles me it really does.

[Bogatan]

They believe the propaganda. I don't think the BBC is (that far) rightwing but its certainly not left enough to offset The Mail, Sun, Express, Times and any others Im missing.

I also sort of blame the lib dems. Based on the last 2 years they probably did enough to limit Tory austerity between 2010-2015 which convinced enough voters the tories weren't that bad 2 years ago.

Or people are just really stupid. A worrying amount (of mostly older) people at work, who otherwise seem perfectly normal and pleasant have said things roughly along the lines of "I'd vote for Trump/boris Jonhson, he seems fun" to make me fear for humanity.

[The Doctor]

Will turkeys vote for Christmas again? Sadly, I fear they will.

-Ralph

[The Doctor]

Cripes. If the exit poll is correct tomorrow will be Very Interesting.

-Ralph

[Pinwig]

Exit polls have been so reliable recently though...

[The Doctor]

I know but after the disappointments of the 2015 election, Brexit and Trump I want the pollsters to be right this time!!!

-Ralph

[Pinwig]

You mean a shocking twist that the exit poll is right? No one would expect that!

[The Doctor]

AAAAAAAARGGGGGGGHHHHHHH the first two seats announced aren't jiving with the exit poll. This will be a long night.

-Ralph

[Pinwig]

How far are you going with this? I'd love to play all night, but it's impractical for me.

[Bogatan]

Well Im up now now till I go to work.

[Bogatan]

Oh god, the hope.