Masterpiece toys you want to be made.

[kayevcee]

I think there'll be more Autobot cars alternating with Decepticon jets and, as you said Andy, Blaster and the Autobot cassettes. I think we could see Reflector and Perceptor as well, although to be honest I don't know how you would improve on the original Perceptor toy. There's a couple of excellent looking 3P Reflectors already, but they're awfully small and spectacularly expensive.

Could we see more Dinobots? I think so, maybe after a re-release of Grimlock. Swoop and Snarl I can see doing well just due to their shiny-factor, but Slag and Sludge might be tough sells for a rull run. That's only through my experience with Toy-fu, where we were always left with piles of Slag and Sludge, but that might just be because the original toys were quite durable and most people who liked their Dinobots still had theirs from childhood.

Masterpiece Insecticons? The reissue certainly sold out quick enough, but would the MPs have to be sold together? Is there an "unpopular" Insecticon?

I'm not sure how they'd handle MPs of big fellas like Grapple and Inferno- they could use lots of the same parts, sure, but they'd be awfully big if they were trying to keep to a standard scale. That's why I'm not sure we'll see MP Trailbreaker and Hoist either- they'd be a lot bigger than the cars and they're not massively popular characters.

I don't think Shockwave is on the cards (at least for the next couple of years), as they would basically be competing against a bootleg that's already widely available- this was why Hasbro and Takara refused to reissue combiner teams for years and only just put out Devastator. Megatron is another tough one for reasons already articulated. I think one of the IDW tank designs might work as long as he looks enough like himself in robot mode, which most people will be keeping him in anyway.

Who are we forgetting? Jetfire, Roadbuster and Whirl can't be done as they were licensed from other companies. Likewise the Deluxe Insecticons. Triple Changers would be an engineering nightmare. Minibots? If the vehicles are to be in scale (different scale for the jets, naturally) then Huffer would be nearly as big as Prime. Assuming there are enough Huffer fans to justify a release.

-Nick

[The Huff]

Well, a Masterpiece Huffer was sort of designed. And I'd buy it if I had the money!

[Bogatan]

If Hasbro is going to sell a full line of MPs they can't all be $100 sets. Fine for Prime and Soundwave with tapes, but even Thundercracker and Acid Storm at $70 is pushing it, the majority of the line will have to be smaller and cheaper. If Sideswipe gets released by Hasbro it will surely be under $40 possibly as low as $30. After all it is just a 2005-2008 era Voyager with better paint apps and a little bit more articulation,

I forgot about the insecticons and Reflector. But as they are small and popular Decepticons yeah they've got to be in line.I'd look at individual Insecticons for under $40 a piece if the same size as Autobot cars, $100 for a box set if they were smaller.

Swoop seems the most likely just because it would be the smallest of the lot.

I was thinking about Inferno and Grapple and the problem I see is that you cant do the long fire engine with ladders in anything like scale with Prime or Sideswipe without the robot mode being taller than MP01 Prime. If you choose a smaller fire engine type vehicle you end up with the same problem as the Universe version, you turn Inferno from a tall thin robot into a short chunky robot, with a large front of truck/chest instead or small one. As far as they go the Universe versions look pretty good alongside the new MP toys anyway.

I wonder if they could make a G1 Megatron that doesnt "officially" turn into a gun, but a tank with oddly gun like parts (and maybe has the potential for a fan mode that is a bit gun like.) Have tank tread on the legs but keep the outside of the leg looking like the grip of a gun. The cannon keeps the proportions of the the gun barrel. You could probably make a tank like that that looks like the boxy cybertronian vehicles in the cartoon flash backs and historical data files, but better.

[Shockprowl]

I like your ideas about Megatron, Andy. I think as long as the robot mode is iconic G1, it would be ok, for me at least. But on the gun question, I've remembered that Hegemon is a decent looking Megatron from a gun. His legs in particular look nice, compared to MP-05 Megatron's legs which are awefuly skinny. A Hegemon style Megatron upgraded with Masterpiece exactness could be a winner. I think they'll do a Megatron. He's the Decepticon leader, and the second best known character in Transformers. I know there aren't any repaints, but every collector remotely interested in Masterpieces would get one, if they have the spadoolies. The re-scaled line needs a Megatron to stand against Optimus Prime. It's the way it has to be!

Autobot Cars I personaly would love to see are Jazz, Wheeljack, Mirage, Ratchet and Skids. I don't think we'll ever see a Skids, not well-known enough. Ratchet I would think is a definate at some point as you can have Ironhide out of the same mold without any drama. Could a Wheeljack mold be altered to Sunstreaker? The arms are very different... Mirage and Jazz are popular well-known characters, collectors would deffinately buy them, but very few repaint possibilities.

I'm worried about Shockwave now, good point Nickos made about them not wanting to do one because of the 3P Quake Wave that's out for not tooooo silly money, which would appear to be pretty decent quality. I'm wondering if I should save up for a Quake Wave! I need a Masterpiece Shockwave damnit!!!! He, Jazz and a new Megatron are top of my list!



On repaints/reuses of Masterpiece molds. How many reuses do you think they look at? How many make a mold/character good for them to do? Two main characters? eg Sideswipe and Red Alert? More? Do a decent number of collectors buy the more none-G1/same-character-repainted-differently repaints? eg Soundblaster, Tiger-Sideswipe (sorry can't remember his name). They obviously have a winner with the Strike Planes mold and the Prowl mold. What other golden egg molds are there for them? I can't think of any as reusable as Strike Plane and Prowl, except maybe Ratchet/Ironhide.

[Toph]

Like Ralph, I don't see the point of the Masterpiece line. For one offs, like the original Optimus it makes sense. But as an wntire line, plus the scaleback they really have lost their way.

To me, Masterpiece means perfect. Or as close to perfect as it gets. Starcream (pre-retool) is the only nearly perfect one that exists.
It has as perfect an alt mode as a transforming toy can get. It has a robot mode that perfectly fits starscream.
Megatron was just rediculous. The original Optimus was a great representation of the robot, but failed at the vehicle.
Grimlock, likewise was a great robot, but completely failed at being a dinosaur. Them following the cartoon is where they lost their way, to me. Starscream was a much better ideal for them to live up to.

Remolding Starscream to make him less perfect just so he looks more like a 30 year old cartoon makes no sense.
Hotrod is the worst of the MP line to date (Seriously, the original toy was way more fun). It can't even clear it's wheels off the ground, and feels half-assed in every form it attempts.

The more the Masterpiece tries to be the cartoon, the less interested I could possibly be in it. I cannot fathom why I should buy an $80 Sideswipe when I got the already perfect Universe Sideswipe for $12.
and since grimlock, they haven't done a character that interests me.

[Shockprowl]

Each to their own 'far as I'm concerned about Masterpieces. And Doc' and Crazy bring up some interesting points. For me, Masterpiece Line has evolved. In Soundwave, Laserbeak, MP10 and Sideswipe I feel they've found a great blend between cartoon, comic, original G1 toy and the 'ultimate' representation of what that G1 character 'should' look like. I've always been an '84 obsessive, with a bit of '85 and '86 thrown in, and up 'till recently 'Classics' filled that obsession nicely. But there have always been problems with Classics. Terrible molds such as Ratchet/Ironhide, the Strike Planes being too small (in my mind's eye), huge voids in no Trailbreaker, no Skids, no decent updated Shockwave etc. With Masterpiece Soundwave, suddenly my collecting has been turned on it's head. An '84 collection in the Masterpiece line? Dare I dream?! I think there is a lot of repetition between Classics and Masterpiece, but if they keep doing figures of Soundwave's quality, that don't mean I have to sell my children to buy them, then Masterpiece may be the way my collection goes. Although I'm pained by the thought that it'll take me a million years to have the set of figures that I crave. I've come so close to achieving that set in 'Classics', but now 'Classics' has been over-taken! Heh, makes you wonder... I bet Has/Tak know exactly what they're doing.

[Bogatan]

I suppose the recent turn of events MP wise being good or bad depends on what you want from a masterpiece.

For me it has always been easy. Toys that as close as possible follow the originals design, while removing the need to remove parts and adding articulation. Also the robot mode should as best as possible combine the best elements of the toy while also capturing some of the animation models look. Prime and Megatron achieved this, which in Megatrons case even if you dont like it was an almost miraculous feat

. 

Feb 16, 2013 20:03:49 GMT Toph said:

Like Ralph, I don't see the point of the Masterpiece line. For one offs, like the original Optimus it makes sense. But as an wntire line, plus the scaleback they really have lost their way.

To me, Masterpiece means perfect. Or as close to perfect as it gets. Starcream (pre-retool) is the only nearly perfect one that exists.
It has as perfect an alt mode as a transforming toy can get. It has a robot mode that perfectly fits starscream.
Megatron was just rediculous. The original Optimus was a great representation of the robot, but failed at the vehicle.
Grimlock, likewise was a great robot, but completely failed at being a dinosaur. Them following the cartoon is where they lost their way, to me. Starscream was a much better ideal for them to live up to.

I agree with the first point. MP1 and  Megatron as one offs are so different, like ultimate collectors editions, that dont belong to a toy line, they aren't to be played with or even posed much.

The revamped line is so different because they feel like toys. Which to me is awesome.

Starscream is an odd case, It wasn't a masterpiece figure like Prime and Megs, but it wasn't what the MP line is now. It would have fitted better under the Binaltech line, because the accuracy of the vehicle mode overrode everything else. The robot mode was compromised in various little ways even before whole tail fins on the hips completely altering the robot mode.  Even though I liked it a lot it wasn't at all what I wanted from a masterpiece toy. MP Prime Megs, Starscream and the Binaltech line all sacrificed fun for engineering, the details and transformations were amazing but they weren't fun toys, because as much as I love complex transformations if a kid has to stop mid play and spend 10-20 minutes transforming a toy it stops being fun.

And while Starscream is the weakest MP for me Grimlock is till just about my favourite. Again alt mode doesnt factor as much in my decision, but because Grimlock spent so much time in Dino mode I'm glad they didn't try to mess around, they too the Diaclone toy and didn't mess with the design. Making a proper Trex might have looked awesome but necessarily like Grimlock.

Feb 16, 2013 20:03:49 GMT Toph said:

Remolding Starscream to make him less perfect just so he looks more like a 30 year old cartoon makes no sense.
Hotrod is the worst of the MP line to date (Seriously, the original toy was way more fun). It can't even clear it's wheels off the ground, and feels half-assed in every form it attempts.

The more the Masterpiece tries to be the cartoon, the less interested I could possibly be in it. I cannot fathom why I should buy an $80 Sideswipe when I got the already perfect Universe Sideswipe for $12.
and since grimlock, they haven't done a character that interests me.

As I said the new Masterpieces feel like toys, the can be transformed quickly despite being complex, even the new Thundercracker seems to transform quicker and easier. The new version while still the most flawed Masterpiece figure I own actually feels like a masterpiece toy and feels like G1 Thundercracker so I'm thankful for the change. The heads a better scale, the feet look better the arms look better. And yes by better I do mean more animation model like. I didn't own the vast majority of any Transformers line until Micromasters and Action Masters. So for almost every toy that appeared in the cartoon regularly especially season 1 and 2 I grew up with that as my idea of the character rather than the toy. Thats why I want every MP toy to be somewhere between the toy and the model, that way every one should see something they like.

Rodimus was a nice try, but would have been better just being Rodimus or Hot Rod.

For what its worth I'd put Rodimus on the old side of the divide, yeah its smaller, but from a design perspective it has more in common with Prime Megs and Starscream than it does with Grimlock Thundercracker MP10 Soundwave Sideswipe and red Alert.

Also not really on topic, but its a little unfair to compare an $80 MP import to a $12 retail deluxe. Given that MP sideswipe is basically the same size as Classics Prime it's actually bigger than current voyagers. And current imported voyagers from BBTS cost anywhere from $50-70. So in the event Sideswipe gets a US release its probably not going to be that expensive in comparison to the Universe Sideswipe.

Feb 18, 2013 17:56:09 GMT Shockprowl said:

Each to their own 'far as I'm concerned about Masterpieces. And Doc' and Crazy bring up some interesting points. For me, Masterpiece Line has evolved. In Soundwave, Laserbeak, MP10 and Sideswipe I feel they've found a great blend between cartoon, comic, original G1 toy and the 'ultimate' representation of what that G1 character 'should' look like. I've always been an '84 obsessive, with a bit of '85 and '86 thrown in, and up 'till recently 'Classics' filled that obsession nicely. But there have always been problems with Classics. Terrible molds such as Ratchet/Ironhide, the Strike Planes being too small (in my mind's eye), huge voids in no Trailbreaker, no Skids, no decent updated Shockwave etc. With Masterpiece Soundwave, suddenly my collecting has been turned on it's head. An '84 collection in the Masterpiece line? Dare I dream?! I think there is a lot of repetition between Classics and Masterpiece, but if they keep doing figures of Soundwave's quality, that don't mean I have to sell my children to buy them, then Masterpiece may be the way my collection goes. Although I'm pained by the thought that it'll take me a million years to have the set of figures that I crave. I've come so close to achieving that set in 'Classics', but now 'Classics' has been over-taken! Heh, makes you wonder... I bet Has/Tak know exactly what they're doing.

I'm not sure how far they will take it, as long as its selling it'll keep going I guess. I'll certainly stick with it as long as it doesn't go the way of Alternators and Binaltach doing repaints that dont make sense.

[Deleted]

aye but with the fiasco of MP10 & TRU, can we really trust any future releases of Masterpieces to not be delayed again

[Bogatan]

Well the Takara releases are delayed often enough too, so a bit of a wait doesnt concern me too much. And the US at least has gotten almost all MPs so far and the last few dont seem to have done too badly. SO that should encourage TRU.

[Toph]

Feb 21, 2013 3:23:00 GMT Bogatan said:

Also not really on topic, but its a little unfair to compare an $80 MP import to a $12 retail deluxe. Given that MP sideswipe is basically the same size as Classics Prime it's actually bigger than current voyagers. And current imported voyagers from BBTS cost anywhere from $50-70. So in the event Sideswipe gets a US release its probably not going to be that expensive in comparison to the Universe Sideswipe.

I would have to disagree with that. I think it's completely fair. They're two separate toys that do the exact same thing. They represent the exact same character, have basically the exact same robot mode, and represent very simular cars.
One cost me $12 to own, and fits in my collection. The other would cost me $80 to own, and does not offer anything to me that the $12 version does not.
Optimus does not really have a G1 counterpart in the normal mainline. He has a few really cheap-halfassed versions, and the awesome Classics voyager, but that's not really overly G1. So he really doesn't have competition.
Grimlock, likewise doesn't really have any competition, outside of the classics that's bbased on a different design (The pretender).
MP Starscream didn't have direct competition. He and Classics did two different things. Classics followed the cartoon/comic art model, while the MP took a much more realistic look to it. Now, remolding it to look cartoon accurate, it pretty much does the exact same thing the classics Starscream does.
Prowl would offer something different, as Classics Prowl took a different route for the character, and MP Prowl is going to be slavish.

We're gonna have the same issue again with Jazz, should he come up.
Classics killed my interest in Alternators. The only reason I cared about Alternators really was they filled that hole. Then when the true Classics came along, they did a better job at representing G1 in an updated modern toy fasion than Alts did.
Post Classics, they pretty much do a better job at doing that than Masterpiece. For a fraction of the price.

So... I don't think it's unfair to compair two MP Sideswipe unfavorably to Classics Sideswipe. They do the same thing. One's uber expensive and doesn't fit into my collection, one I picked up years ago and am completely happy with. (We'll, as happy as I can be with one of the most boring non-characters out of G1).

But so far, MP does not really offer me personally anything that Classics does not. And I have a few of them, too. First Prime, Megatron, all three original seekers, Grimlock, and Hotrod. I do want the second Prime as it addresses my two complaints from the first (Too heavy. Diecast needs to be done away with. Also, too big). But aside from that, MP just gets less and less interesting as it increasingly does the same thing Classics does, only doing it waaaaay more expesnively.
I think it's a completely fair and valid point.

[Bogatan]

It's a valid opinion certainly if the line offers nothing you want that classics doesnt already, but it seems the change to the line is swaying many classics fans to the masterpiece line. And the fact Takara is trying a large scale adult collectors line is a great thing to my mind.

Even if I didn't disagree with most of that I would still argue that you are comparing an import toy to a retail one. The comparison is either MP Sideswipe to Henkei Sideswipe or a potential Hasbro MP Sideswipe to Universe Sideswipe. Either of which isnt nearly the price difference you are talking about. MP Sideswipe is produced for the Asian market right now, anyone who chooses to buy it is paying import and markup when they pay $80.

As it is though for me, Universe is a major update, that doesnt really capture that much of the G1 character, its a great toy and a great update but the legs, are too different, the chest rounded and so on. Certainly I see no difference between them and any other pair of Masterpiece and classics toys.

I'll be curious if Hasbro release Sideswipe and you buy it (or any of the new style MPs really), to see if your opinion changes once you have a play.

[Toph]

I wouldn't. He's still gonna be around $40, which is way too expensive for something that offers me nothing that the $12 universe didn't.
I don't like how it looks, for one thing. Looks derpyish, especially in the chest. Too flat. The original Sideswipe toy had a lot of curves and contures that the MP doesn. MP is just flat and boxy. As my sis has grown fond of saying: Blergle.
Note that while I don't like Sideswipe as a character, I adored his original toy (Didn't get one until G2, though).
If they can get it down to about $30 or cheaper, I'll definately get it. Between $30-$40, probably not. Anything over $40, it's so not worth waisting my money on. But unlike most, I don't honestly see this being any less than $40 stateside. Probably $50.

I may or may not fork over the money for Red Alert. And if they did a G2 version, I'd have to get that.
But, I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong. However, I don't see how buying or playing with this could alter my opinion. It does not fill any kind of hole in my collection, it's not an interesting character that I've ever cared about, it's just an expensive piece of plastic that does the same thing one I already own does.

Now, if we were talking about Soundwave, this would be a very different conversation.
Another character I don't care about. But it offers something that is not found in any other modern form. He fits up there with the original Optimus and Megatron. An iconic character. An alt mode that cannot be done in any other medium, and a direct update of the robot mode, in a way that any different alt mode would fail at (Although, Gen Scourge has shown us how clever Hasbro can be)
As much as I dislike Soundwave in general, it does offer something I couldn't get in a better medium.
Or a hypothetical Sunstreaker would also fall into this catagory, since Hasbro will never give us a sunstreaker that isn't a direct repaint from, or a tweaking of a sideswipe toy (No matter how clever it is, like the Universe).

Also, I still don't see where it's unfair to compair MP Suideswipe to Classics Sideswipe. Whether it's released by Takara and imported for $80, or released by Hasbro and sold domestically for $40, it still does not offer me anything that the $12 Classics Sideswipe that I already own does not. I see no difference.

[Bogatan]

Probably just me being pedantic, if you were simply saying "why should I buy Masterpiece Sideswipe when I have Universe Sideswipe" I wouldn't have commented, if Uni Sideswipe does everything you want for that character then you're absolutely right why get another version you like less, but by bring up the price you make the price difference a factor. When you do that to me you should compare them on an equal footing or at least acknowledging the added costs on top of MP sideswipes Japanese retail price.

 I do think $30 is the price it would sell without issue at but I guess at $35-40, anything more will be a hard sell, fans will opt for paying $20-30 more for the Takara version and get it months or years earlier. Though $50 isn't out of the realm of possibility for TRU, it would just be a stupid decision.

I don't like how it looks, for one thing. Looks derpyish, especially in the chest. Too flat. The original Sideswipe toy had a lot of curves and contures that the MP doesn. MP is just flat and boxy.

Read more: tmukhub.proboards.com/post/new/7154#ixzz2LZn1Q1CM

I thought this before buying it, which is why I mentioned about being curious if you changed your mind if you did ever get one, because I did. Everything I had been unsure about from photos disappeared when I had it in hand when I realised it was a toy that could be played with almost as easily as the original toy and easier than the Universe one.

[Toph]

Ah, and you see it's the price thing that makes the case against it for me. If it were more reasonable, IE the difference between the Universe and Henkei Sideswipe, then the price difference wouldn't be an issue at all for me. It wouldn't even factor into my argument against wanting one. But the huge price differewnce between the two molds naturally (pre-import prices, IE what Hasbro would sell it for) is hard for me to swallow. Then crank up the inflated yen and massive import price hike to $80, then it becomes outright unreasonable for a toy that for me does 100% the exact same thing as Universe Sideswipe, only more poorly since it's too big, and too cartoony.

That said, I was thinking about this while I was in the shower. And to bring this back more on topic, my distaste for this becoming a cartoon line would go away completely if they expanded it outside of G1 exclusively.

If they added in Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and RiD then my interests would increase tenfold.
Also, since they have MP soundwave... it's unlikely but I would kill to see them take a swing at trying an MP BW Ravage. Predacon robot mode, and tape alt mode.

[The Doctor]

All of Jetty's thought exactly mirror my own! Uncanny!

-Ralph

[Toph]

Once in a while I'm useful!

[Shockprowl]

You are clearly the Scottish and Texan versions of the same person!

[Shockprowl]

Feb 22, 2013 0:57:07 GMT Toph said:

... it's unlikely but I would kill to see them take a swing at trying an MP BW Ravage. Predacon robot mode, and tape alt mode.

That's an excellent idea!!!

[Toph]

I can't even fathom that accent. >_<

[Shockprowl]

So, who's your money on for who'll be MP-20, after Prowl and his mold buddies?

Me thinks:

Ratchet/Ironhide.

[Bogatan]

I don't know, maybe time for a new decepticon. The tapes feel like a part of Soundwaves release rather than their own thing and Acid Wing is another repaint. Galvatron maybe, followed by Ultra Magnus.

The cons really need an Autobot car sized toy that can be repainted.

I would love MP Beast Wars. I just want a cartoon accurate Rhinox.

[Bogatan]

Its a odd how sometimes I want toy accurate, but then sometimes cartoon accuracy seems so important.

[Shockprowl]

Yes I know what you mean. I've gone full circle at least 10 times- over MP Sideswipe in particular. But Soundwave settled it for me. It's the blend I'm after. A ton of cartoon/comic accurate(which never used to be much of a consideration to me, but suddenly is now), decent representation of G1 Alt mode, but also a more than decent portion of 'up-to-date-original-toy' thrown in. Not asking for much, is it?

[Toph]

It depends on what is the superior form, for me. The Marvel designs for the most part were vastly superior to the toys. I'd rather have a marvel/cartoon accurate Ironhide, or a 3 dimensional Ravage, than toy accurate ones.

Does not follow through with everything though. Give me Toy Accurate Jazz to cartoon any day. Sideswipe, too. Also, the Floro Dery designs were as rubbish as it got (I think Galvatron was the only one that was even remotely decent). I'd rather have a toy accurate Hotrod, than a cartoon one.
Then, sometimes both fail, as with Grimlock. It is not right in any definition of the term, for a dinosaur to be based on a design that's even more primative in concept than his original toy which was designed in the late seventies.

So, I'd rather follow what the best design is. And if neither are good, then it needs a redesign.

[Bogatan]

Ah that's were I lose interest if they redesign at character its not Masterpiece toy to me. Probably my favourite thing about MP is seeing existing designs as they looked in my childhood brain. Which is why Starscream doesn't work for me and Grimlock does. I understand Jettys reasons for disliking it, but personally an accurate dino mode just wouldnt have looked like Grmlock.

Generally with G1 I'm with Shockprowl I want the best blend of animation model and toy. If we get Ironhide and Ratchet I hope they do possess a toy robot mode as well as cartoon. It shouldn't be too hard to have the head retract and a face to appear in the chest.

But for Beast Wars I just want a TV show accurate set of characters and for Rhinox in particular that means quite a departure from the toy.

[Toph]

See, that's the same mindset I keep coming across everywhere, And I do not understand why. Why would a more anatomically accurate dinosaur not look like Grimlock? it's been done! And it still looks exactly like him!

Derrick Yanniger managed it, and he's one of the worst artists to ever put pen tn to paper! In fact, he was the first. The Energon Grimlock managed to do the same thing, and that (Until Masterpiece) was the most "G1" new Grimlock toy to date.
It doesn't take much. While I would vastly prefer something like Figeroua's Maximum Dinobots Grimlock design, all it really takes is a larger, more proportional head, smaller arms, the correct number of fingers, and it's posture corrected.
That's all I'm asking. That's all it would take. These are pretty much the exact things we've already seen done to the design. Hell, even the original Grimlock toy could do this.

And most people (Not you, Andy) act like I'm speaking the impossible, or sacrelige, or that I'm demanding him to look like he belongs in Beast wars. But this is not something unreasonable.

EDIT:
I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound pushy, or invalidating.
It's just that I get nothing but pushback (Not from you. You've gone out of your way to make me not feel that way) anytime and anywhere I bring up Grimlock being even remotely anatomically correct (Either for MP or FoC), and it's always... *always* the same argument. "Because it wouldn't be Grimlock," "It's not geewun enough" (never mind that FoC isn't even remotely g1), or "It would no longer be recognizable as Grimlock."
And I just do not understand this point of view.

[kayevcee]

I'd love to see MP Ratchet and Ironhide after the rather rotten Generations figures. Other than Trailbreaker and Hoist I can't think of any more easy repaints for the 'bots. Jazz and Stepper I suppose, but Stepper has proved too obscure to support a full release.

-Nick

[Toph]

I sold off both my Universe Ironhide and Ratchet, and vastly prefer the 2005 Botcon ones.

I would actually be interested in MP Ironhide and Ratchet, assuming they're the same size/price as Sideswipe and Prowl. Those would work perfectly in my collection.

They're going to run the well of viable MP characters pretty quickly, though.

I think Blaster and his tapes, Jazz, Sunstreaker, Ironhide/Ratchet, Wheeljack, Tracks, Cliffjumper, Hound, and Ultra Magnus, and their viable repaints (It doesn't matter if the character is obscure to us, they still do decent over there. Hell, they did Tigertrack, and you don't get much more obscure than that) are the only almost certain ones.

Potential would be Bumblebee (If they can find a way around the VW thing, or make him generic enough), Warpath, Swoop, Powerglide, Inferno/Grapple.

For Decepticons, the well is even more shallow. Megatron, the seekers, Soundwave and the tapes are really the only guarentees. And they've been done.
So... potential... Shockwave? Galvatron? Non-combining constructicons?

I think if you get beyond all these, then the recognizability factor goes way down, and we'll probably start seeing characters that make sense for japan, but would be "wtf?" to us, like Chromedome. And japanese exclusive characters such as Victorysabre and Dezarus.

I don't think Hasbro would be extremely happy. I think they'd prefer to jump to Beast Wars before Takara gets into G1 characters that Hasbro can't market at $50-$100+ a pop.

[Bogatan]

Feb 26, 2013 0:48:20 GMT Toph said:

See, that's the same mindset I keep coming across everywhere, And I do not understand why. Why would a more anatomically accurate dinosaur not look like Grimlock? it's been done! And it still looks exactly like him!

Because Grimlock does not look like an anatomically correct T Rex. Nah its not even the Dino mode thats my problem. You can make a dino mode grimlock anatomically correct and it still looks like Grimlock if the design includes the correct elements. But it would significantly resize the robot mode. Looking at a quick google search it seems if done the tail was accurate it would no longer be large enough to house large robot mode legs, which to me are one of the most iconic parts and the main reason the classic version is disappointing for me.

It's the same thing with Bumblebee, the toy and the cartoon are a super deformed VW Beetle, but when I see a yellow Beetle on the roads I immediately see Bumblebee despite it being a different shape. but try making the bumblebee toy from a a real proportioned Beetle and it distorts the robot mode, the chest gets stretched and.. well you only have to look at the recent BB/CJ thing that came out in Japan, it may be a fine toy but its proportions dont lend it to looking like the g1 figure (I know it isn't meant to be but imagine it as a beetle and how it looks with those proportions and I don't think it would pass as G1 BB).

Okay just to visualise this for myself I took a Trex skeleton and a pic of MP Grimlock and messed around. Dont worry Im not taking this too seriously or anything, I'm taking any opportunity to use photoshop right now.


It still looks like Grimlock but I had to massively change certain elements to such an extent the robot mode would look crazy. More of less the legs are the same size as is the Dino head, everything else is stretched and squashed. The legs even ignoring the gap thats still in the dino tail, would be longer and thinner. The robot arms would appear even more massive on the rescaled torso and sit further towards the back and I'm really not sure what he reshaping of the dino tosrso would do to the robot chest.

and just so you can see the skeleton I used in case it is not an accurate one.


Maybe the designers could have made it work, maybe not. Certainly they could have done some of your suggestions, thought smaller dino arms would have limited the use of the bits it came with, 2 fingers would have been slaughtered. Remeber wveryone slating FP for mucking up Sideburns paint apps on the face because they didnt understand what FP had been doing? It would have been that all over again. Posture could have been better, but it would have changed the shape and area available to house the robot torso and legs and I'm guessing that would have been a huge problem to over come.

A bigger head would have been the easiest thing to do but as a Grimlock fan rather than T Rex fan I would have been sat here now complaining that he head looked to big. it also might not have helped balance in robot mode.

I'm sure when it comes to real world cars, the number of car fans in TF fandom means they do pay much more attention to car accuracy (and jet accuracy when MP3 was designed) even if that sacrifices elements of the robot mode. With a Dinosaur it seems they felt getting the perfect robot mode was more important. In the end they could have done what you want, but must have decided that what they did was the version that would most appeal to the largest market. Which is fair enough, though not so much for you.

[Bogatan]

Feb 26, 2013 2:36:24 GMT Toph said:

For Decepticons, the well is even more shallow. Megatron, the seekers, Soundwave and the tapes are really the only guarentees. And they've been done.
So... potential... Shockwave? Galvatron? Non-combining constructicons?

I honestly think that if the current line up to MP19 is selling well, really well, a combining team is not totally out of the question.