Masterpiece toys you want to be made.

[Toph]

I have a huge post down in the game section about FoC Grimlock and how much it sucks, but I made a lot of points that are valid for MP as well.
A lot of my frustraition boils dow to that there are so many fans who are anal and obcessive about model perfect vehicles. And those fans are not only tolorated, but accepted, and almost treated as the norm.
But I see plently of times, anyone who feels the same for animals of any form, they're largely ostricized. Often told that it doesn't matter, or be happy with what you get.

However... this, and FoC Grimlock... saying those are tyrannosaurs is exactly the same thing as putting a block with doors and windows on wheels, calling it a porche, and telling model perfect fans to be happy it's Jazz.
To ignore major elements of what makes a tyrannosaurus a tyrannosaurus, is the same thing as leaving the mane off Razorclaw and still saying he's a lion. Really? What makes him visually a lion, then, without that detail, and not just one of the many more generic cats that's anything hasbro says it is, that plagued G1?

But even that, I'm not now, nor have I ever asked for an exact replica of a t. rex. Just something that is recognizable as a robotic t. rex. More or less something along the lines of this: www.tfu.info/2004/Autobot/Grimlock/grimlock.htm
FYI, they completely botched the picture in an effort to be "moar geewun!" The toy is not ment to be posed like that, and it shows. However, my net's not working tonight and that's the only thing I could access.
Either way, it's got a head that's proportioned more accurately, has a tyrannosaur-ish shape, smaller arms, and stands with it's tail high and proud. That's... that's really all I want. Everything else is completely classic Grimlock. What you would expect of him. These same things could easily be applied to one that transforms very much more like the original toy.
Yeah, some things are exaggurated, but this is a robot. The reality is things like a Tyrannosaur head, or a lion's mane look better when exaggurated (As long as it's not rediculous like the FoC game art having his dino feet as large as the entire body), not undersized.
But then, also that toy was designed by someone who actually understands dinosaurs. MP and FoC were not.

Either way, that was an awesome post you made.

Also, that gap in the tail could easily be compensated by enlarging the robot shins a bit, and lengthening the rest of the tail, and having it on the outside of the legs in robot mode which would also have been more G1 accurate.
I've encountered simular problems applying dinosaur anatomy to my G1 styled dinobots, and learned the art of dino origami.

[Shockprowl]

I think, as you chaps have said, it comes down to most folkes knowing a lots about cars and not knowing much about dinosaurs. Which, until we start riding dinosaurs to work, will always be the case.

But I can understand your frustration CJ!

[Philip Ayres]

Feb 26, 2013 6:33:41 GMT Toph said:

But even that, I'm not now, nor have I ever asked for an exact replica of a t. rex. Just something that is recognizable as a robotic t. rex. More or less something along the lines of this: www.tfu.info/2004/Autobot/Grimlock/grimlock.htm
FYI, they completely botched the picture in an effort to be "moar geewun!" The toy is not ment to be posed like that, and it shows. However, my net's not working tonight and that's the only thing I could access.
Either way, it's got a head that's proportioned more accurately, has a tyrannosaur-ish shape, smaller arms, and stands with it's tail high and proud. That's... that's really all I want. Everything else is completely classic Grimlock. What you would expect of him. These same things could easily be applied to one that transforms very much more like the original toy.

That Grimlock is easily one of the worst TFs I've ever played with

[kayevcee]

Swoop would be awesome too, actually. Regular and "anime" colours. They could even do one in Predacon colours as "Divebomb" to be extra wanky if the mould is popular enough.

-Nick

[Shockprowl]

I love the phrase "to be extra wanky" !

[The Huff]

Re. Grimlocks T-Rex mode I've always thought of the Dinobots as transforming into 'machines' that just resemble certain dinosaurs but were never supposed to be autentic or a disguise. That was for Beast wars.

[blueshift]

Feb 26, 2013 11:15:23 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Feb 26, 2013 6:33:41 GMT Toph said:

But even that, I'm not now, nor have I ever asked for an exact replica of a t. rex. Just something that is recognizable as a robotic t. rex. More or less something along the lines of this: www.tfu.info/2004/Autobot/Grimlock/grimlock.htm
FYI, they completely botched the picture in an effort to be "moar geewun!" The toy is not ment to be posed like that, and it shows. However, my net's not working tonight and that's the only thing I could access.
Either way, it's got a head that's proportioned more accurately, has a tyrannosaur-ish shape, smaller arms, and stands with it's tail high and proud. That's... that's really all I want. Everything else is completely classic Grimlock. What you would expect of him. These same things could easily be applied to one that transforms very much more like the original toy.

That Grimlock is easily one of the worst TFs I've ever played with

Where's this sudden backlash come from, I thought everyone loved him!!!

[Philip Ayres]

To clarify: I love MP Grimlock

Energon Grimlock, which Jetty linked to, is a pile of donkey doo.

I sold mine rather quickly.... I believe Nick Roche of this parrish is it's current owner

[Bogatan]

Feb 26, 2013 13:34:50 GMT The Huff said:

Re. Grimlocks T-Rex mode I've always thought of the Dinobots as transforming into 'machines' that just resemble certain dinosaurs but were never supposed to be autentic or a disguise. That was for Beast wars.

Yeah this has always been my take. And their origins also go some way to explaining it.

In Sunbow they decide to build some reinforcements and mostly because Wheeljack is a bit out there, they pt to make them look Dinosaurs. At no point is accuracy a factor its all about making power soldiers with what ever materials they have available.

And the comic origin uses the on board computer of a crashed ship that has no knowledge of biological life forms.

This goes for all animal G1 forms except the tapes because presumably they always transformed in to winged or four legged robot forms. Even if the intention was to have a form of disguise, its a machines best effort  to mimic biology.

As for the toy, I just see it as a product of it's age, even if scientific knowledge had moved beyond that image of a Trex in the late 70s, the public perception may not have, or the designer could have been throwing in a Godzilla/monster movie homage. And once that was set as the design of G1 Grimlock that was its design, for good or bad. Any unnecessary changes from the  original designs of the toy and cartoon/comic model should be avoided. 

[Toph]

Feb 26, 2013 11:15:23 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Feb 26, 2013 6:33:41 GMT Toph said:

But even that, I'm not now, nor have I ever asked for an exact replica of a t. rex. Just something that is recognizable as a robotic t. rex. More or less something along the lines of this: www.tfu.info/2004/Autobot/Grimlock/grimlock.htm
FYI, they completely botched the picture in an effort to be "moar geewun!" The toy is not ment to be posed like that, and it shows. However, my net's not working tonight and that's the only thing I could access.
Either way, it's got a head that's proportioned more accurately, has a tyrannosaur-ish shape, smaller arms, and stands with it's tail high and proud. That's... that's really all I want. Everything else is completely classic Grimlock. What you would expect of him. These same things could easily be applied to one that transforms very much more like the original toy.

That Grimlock is easily one of the worst TFs I've ever played with

I never said the toy was good. Just that the design updated G1 Grimlock with a more modernish and more accurate take on a tyrannosaur.
Throwing the concept out because of the toy is like saying you can't do a toy based on the cartoon/marvel design for Optimus, because the Robot Master or Classics Ultimate Battle Optimus were crap.

[Deleted]

Just to add something to the mix... I'd buy both Masterpiece Metroplex and Masterpiece Kup. All I want from the series is something that allows me to realise my perception of the character.

I'm surprised there's so much love for G1 Hot Rod as the toy was the single biggest disappointment Transformers hit me with (little did I know that two decades later Revenge of the Fallen would be released). He was my favourite character from the movie and I had never seen the toy. With the movie being my only point of reference (SSVC didn't show the series in Germany) I was devastated to find, when I eventually encountered him, that I couldn't pose him in any of the ways I knew from the movie (shooting up at the shuttle, on a knee fighting Galvatron etc...). So for me, I forgave a lot of the shortcoming s of MP Rodimus because it ultimately allowed me to recreate the image of what Hot Rod looked like in my mind's eye.

If a Masterpiece captures the spirit of the character from any of the mediums and is well articulated (allowing the 'operator' to further recreate the image in their mind) then it's a done deal for me. If Metroplex was the size of Fortress Maximus, took 15 minutes to transform but 'felt' somewhere between his original showing and the FoC version then I'd happily shell out £300 for him... (+ whatever the divorce costs).

But back on topic, I'd like to see:
Kup (capture that grizzle - and do a better job than Prime)
Galvatron (no re-mould possibilities but I'm not a big fan of being sold the same toy with different paint anyway)
Ultra Magnus (make him suitably large in posture and capture that military )
Metroplex (as described...)
Omega Supreme (as above...)
Bumblebee (there's a very tasty 3rd party VW prototype doing the rounds that should scratch that itch)
Megatron (not a chance unless they break from their MO and I'll quit the line in protest in that case - keep MP Megs the desirable piece of awkward he is)
Ironhide (most likely as it fits into the scale and pricing the recent Autobot releases fall into)
Shockwave (although I'm such a big fan of FoC it'll be hard for me to let that figure go)

... Wow, that was a bigger post than I planned.

[Toph]

I'd have to say that I love G1 Hotrod only for his vehicle mode. It was an awesome fantasy vehicle.
Cool looking robot mode, too. So far, neither classics, nor MP hit either mark for me. (Though Classics comes a lot closer)

[Toph]

What I'd like to see out of the MP line...
Beast Wars.

The BW MP line would actually come in twos. Each character would get two distinct toys.

First, a normal MP toy, like any other (Though making an attempt to keep in scale, where plausible), then, a "mini-masterpiece" line that's full of legends, cyb-commanders, scouts, and even some deluxe sized toys. Much more intricate than the normal legend and scout, though. More detailed, and more complex.
This "Mini" line would be largely in scale with the existing G1 Masterpieces.
The smallest characters, Rattrap, Cheetor, Waspinator, Blackarachia, Silverbolt would be Legend equivalent.
The medium sized, like Dinobot, Rhinox, Tigatron, Optimus, Megatron would be in Commander equivalent.
The large characters, Depthcharge and Rampage, would be scout equivalent.
And the autobot sized Optimal Optimus (With a swapable BM Megatron head) would be deluxe equivalent.

With multipacks like Rattrap vs Tarantulas, they could produce and release the smaller scaled figures more quickly and cheaply than the standard MP figure, while addressing the full sized MP figures at a much more typical pace.

I think this combination would please just about every fan (Except for those who still violently reject the existance of BW as the worst thing ever. Hard to believe, but they still exist). People who collect classics would have a BW line that's vaguely in scale to classics. The G1 MP collectors who're anal about scale, may not be interested in normal BW MPs, but would bite on the in-scale line. Those MP specific collectors would have the full sized line.
And Beast Wars fans had the full sized, and small sized line to choose from (And they would probably buy both)

[Shockprowl]

CJ, I think that's a brilliant idea!!

[Shockprowl]

Thinking about it, I hope they do some more '84 cars, 'cos Prowl and MP10 (when I have them!) are going to be badly outnumbered! Even if I manage to get Sideswipe as well, Soundwave, his 5 cassettes, the 3 Strike Planes, and Quakeshockwave still outnumber the Autobots. Need a Grimlock to ballance the power! I wish I'd got one when TRU hads loads for, what was it, 60 pounds or something? Blast!

[kayevcee]

The going rate has gone up a bit since then. You don't even want to know how much they are on Amazon marketplace.

I'm going to start my purchasing frenzy for Toy-fu 2013 soon, and I'll be watching eBay closely. Do you want me to keep an eye out for a loose one for you? There's one up just now. Send me a PM if you want me to start searching- and give me a ballpark figure for what you want to pay.

-Nick

[Shockprowl]

That's very kinda of you Nickos, good buddy, but I think I'm going to have to put MP Grimlock on the back-burner for a while 'cos I've got so much other stuff that I want to try to get, such as MP10, MP Sideswipe, the very expensive MP Cassettes, one or two 3P items, and, of course, MP Prowl! My future MP Autobots will just have to relay on their cunning to beat the Decepticons for a while! Thank you though.

[Toph]

I wouldn't count the cassettes individually myself. Rarely are they shown as being a match for one autobot by themselves. So it seems two=one

[Shockprowl]

Underestimate Ravage at your peril, CJ!

[The Doctor]

ROWR!

-Ralph

[Shockprowl]

Aaaand if you don't neutralise those two pesky little 'cons Rumble and Frenzy quickly, you're in a whole worlda hurt with Earthquakes and sonic attacks!

[Toph]

Ravage? Pha. All you need to do is lock him in a cage to debilitate him, or make him crash in a supersecret spaceship with a bomb, in order to kill him. Piece o' cake!

[Jim]

An interview translation with Shogo Hasui, current MP designer has turned up on TFW.

Most pertinent quote to this thread:

MP is the most prestigious series and it is often seen as the series for the main characters, but we released those sub-characters last year. They did not appear in the cartoon very often and may not make the top 10 popular character list, but their vehicle mode is Lamborghini Countach and I thought it might appeal to the generations that Super Cars were the craze in their childhood. For MPs, the most important precondition is the faithful re-creation of cartoon robot and alternate modes, and we obtained the official license from Lamborghini and went ahead with the development.
Personally, rather than concentrating on one character, I'd like to have variety of characters lined up so that the world view of Transformers could be more enjoyable. If I concentrated on the ideals on Lambor, he would have been a 10.000 yen class product. There may be fans who would purchase him for that price, but considering the (relatively minor) position of the character, more people may not purchase him. Taking that into consideration, rather than concentrating on each character and releasing them at high price range, it was decided to have a fuller lineup including sub-characters and the 5,800 yen price was set. I pursued Masterpiece level figures within the restriction and Lambor and Alert are the results. Due to the cost restriction, initially I wasn't even sure if the shoulder cannons could be included. (*laughs) Thanks to the support from the fans Lambor was sold out. The nicely proportioned robot mode and the appeal of Lamborghini contributed a lot, of course, but I think his transformation is well done and the playability is also appreciated.

-Jim

[Shockprowl]

That's a fascinating read. I think he's got the right idea with the blend of cartoon/G1 accurate. He's doing a good job so far!

Jazz would be brilliant. As would Ultra Magnus. Bruticus I wouldn't go for I don't think. An MP Combiner? I'd be surprised if it ever came about to be honest. The expense for the collector! Bruticus is a great character alright, but he's had lots of attention recently. I much rather the more obvious Devastator. But again, it'd be enormous and very expensive.

2 smaller, and 2 larger figures still to come this year? Surely Prowl and his mold buddies must constitute the smaller figures. Otherwise that's a lot of MPs out in one year, which would be great, but unlikely. 2 larger figures? Hmm, interesting. He didn't give anything away about who they'd be, only who he'd like to do. Version 2 of Megatron maybe?

[Bogatan]

Prowl Bluestreak and Smokescreen make three smaller ones so does that mean two more on top of those three? Soundblaster could be one of the biggies.

The reasons I can see combiners is because they do sort of fit the designers brief, the Stunticons at least the four cars would would fit the same price point as the Autobot cars. They aren't A list but are popular. And theres a lack of memorable early Decepticons once you are past whatsalready released aide from more strike plane repaints.

The originals are simpler so the MPs can be a little simpler so theres room to add the limb mode parts. At least two of the 4 can probably be the same base mould with different car shell parts. The compromise would be Motormaster. To keep the scale it would have to be the size of Prime with Trailer which would not work. Scale it down to a suitable robot mode size and the truck will be tiny. The only real option is to make MM just the cab, the same size as Prime, but then to turn that into a robot mode that matches the cartoon model for MM and Menasaur would be interesting.

But if they could resolve MM the set released by Hasbro based on the last few MPs could be under $200. MM $60-80, cars $30-50. Certainly no reason it should be more than 3ps are charging for smaller combiners.

Bruticus or any other combiner would have some really crazy scale issues in alt modes, but if thats not an issue I can see them trying at least one combiner in the next few years.

[Stomski]

Masterpiece Longtooth, where the shell is integrated into the transformation, so it's kind of a shell-former with a 3rd vehicle mode...?

[The Doctor]

Actually, proper redoes of Pretenders would be quite nice.

-Ralph

[Shockprowl]

Always interested in what my Cyber-Chumbs long for, what drives their collections. Masterpiece, rightly or wrongly, is the premier line for the adult collector. Which characters would you like to see released?

[kayevcee]

Megatron (G2-style, IDW-style, I care not)
Jhiaxus
Skywarp (in the style of the new Starscream, Thundercracker, Sunstorm and Acid Storm)
Sunstreaker
Mirage

Honourable mention to Ratchet and Ironhide. I'm sure they'll appear at some point, but the chaps above are my priorities.

-Nick

[Shockprowl]

Good list chumb. Mine are:

1 Jazz
2 Megatron (G1 robot, poss tank alt mode?)
3 Ratchet/Ironhide (slightly cheating having 2 characters, but it's the same mold...)
4 Mirage
5 Ooooooh Skids, just ahead of Sunstreaker.

I would put Devastator on my list, but I don't think that'll ever happen in a billion years!

Gimme Autobot cars, baby!!!! A new MP Megatron is long overdue. Desperately overdue. I know what form he could/should be has been talked about extensively. I love IDW Infiltration Megatron, but he'd have to be G1 robot mode exact for me. But maybe not a gun, as iconic as the gun mode is. Quiet an engineering challenge!