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Post by The Doctor on Mar 17, 2017 22:21:03 GMT
It does perhaps suggest the Movie line does not have the budgetery support it had in years past.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 17, 2017 22:26:41 GMT
It's interesting isn't it. Something's changed. I wonder if that's down to the new annual film release cycle, or that AoE toy sales were very poor.
I could understand it if there was big reuse in the kid lines, but this new 'premier' collector line is full of reuses too. It's so funny that they think they can sell old toys as premium collector items by repainting them.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 17, 2017 22:28:52 GMT
Meanwhile, over in RID and Generations, we are seeing the return of toys from previous waves returning later on rather than what we have got used to in the last few years with all new toys every wave.
Interesting developments.
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Mar 17, 2017 22:28:57 GMT
Much as I hate the BH Predacons, it would be cool to see a repaint or retool of Ripclaw in this.
She was the one decent pred.
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Post by Toph on Mar 17, 2017 22:35:18 GMT
It's interesting isn't it. Something's changed. I wonder if that's down to the new annual film release cycle, or that AoE toy sales were very poor. I could understand it if there was big reuse in the kid lines, but this new 'premier' collector line is full of reuses too. It's so funny that they think they can sell old toys as premium collector items by repainting them. Well in this case "Premier" is just what we would think of as the mainline, or normal toys as opposed to the glut of kiddie marketed one/three-steps changers (which strangled AoE) It's the exact same thing as nuRiD calling their deluxes Warriors, to separate them from the step changers. It's not really meant to be any sort of "premium" line. Or at least if it is, then hasbro's got it's head stuck too far up it's ass. |
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Post by Baron B of Triple B on Mar 17, 2017 22:46:25 GMT
Was 'Premium' not what the 'First Edition' version toys were getting called in Japan? Or have I completely made that up?
I took it they were just expanding the use of that type of wording.
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Post by Toph on Mar 17, 2017 22:51:17 GMT
I took it that "The Premier Line" is what they were calling the standard deluxes, voyagers, and leader classes.
Edit- Aye, indeed it is. From the Wiki:
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 17, 2017 22:56:00 GMT
I think premier in this case is being used to say 'these are the best ones' as opposed to 'these are the first ones'. As in, the premium line for collectors like the Black series Star Wars figures are over the regular lines. I'd assumed this was because they were going to route of more paint apps to make them look like more expensive/better quality/more attractive toys. But I can't see how even an extra lick of paint can make those AoE moulds something they didn't quite turn out to be last time.
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Post by Baron B of Triple B on Mar 17, 2017 23:09:27 GMT
Yeah, it looks like it's now being used to distinguish between flip-changers and standard toys for the movie lines.
I can't decide if they're trying to polish a turd by making it sound fancy or just making it easier to differentiate.
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 17, 2017 23:16:06 GMT
I'm quite eager to get one just to see what they've done to justify the price increase. I've got all the AoE Dinobots, so I'd like to compare. A nice finish on those moulds could go a long way.
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Post by Baron B of Triple B on Mar 17, 2017 23:28:24 GMT
The Platinum and Black Knight decos showed how good they could be with proper colours. I'm not sure about the new colours though. That dull-blue and grey on Slash just makes him look fat.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 18, 2017 9:27:54 GMT
'Premier' and 'Black Series' are just words to train the market to accept what was once standard quality as the new 'luxury brand' and thus charge more money for it while lower quality toys inhabit the price points of the old standard. Nowt more to it than that.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 18, 2017 12:42:31 GMT
Yes but if you're going to put an old toy in a new box and pitch it at a market that knows full well what it is, you've got to do *something* to it to say that it's a 'definitive' or improved version. If you're starting from scratch and saying, this is our new premier toy line, then you might get away with it, but in this case they're reselling the same toys that came out three years ago at vastly inflated prices.
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Post by Toph on Mar 18, 2017 15:41:01 GMT
I think y'all are getting caught up on the textbook definition of "Premier" and equating it with "Premium," "Top Quality," or even "Masterpiece," instead of following hasbro's obvious intention to separate kiddie step changers from older focused mainline.
They want a word that pushes "older collector intended" without calling it Adult Collectors Items (which is even more incorrect).
Hasbro rebrands their scales and classes every few years, sometimes with completely nonsensical things (why are like fifty different types of toys called Titans, and why is the largest "normal" class called Leader when leaders are rarely ever used?). No one had issues adapting to deluxes being relabeled Warriors for nuRiD. This is pretty much the same deal.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Mar 18, 2017 17:35:05 GMT
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 18, 2017 17:57:37 GMT
I do see where these horns are coming from. It gives the impression of the original G1 helmet while having the 'knights in armour' excuse to fall back on.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 18, 2017 18:41:38 GMT
Hasbro rebrands their scales and classes every few years, sometimes with completely nonsensical things (why are like fifty different types of toys called Titans, and why is the largest "normal" class called Leader when leaders are rarely ever used?). No one had issues adapting to deluxes being relabeled Warriors for nuRiD. This is pretty much the same deal. Except that this comes with a very hefty price hike. I think that is what is twisting knickers with some fans rather than what they're called, in my opinion. -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 18, 2017 18:42:26 GMT
I do see where these horns are coming from. It gives the impression of the original G1 helmet while having the 'knights in armour' excuse to fall back on. All I can see is Death's Head II and now I can't unsee it. -Ralph |
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Post by Baron B of Triple B on Mar 18, 2017 19:08:44 GMT
Hasbro rebrands their scales and classes every few years, sometimes with completely nonsensical things (why are like fifty different types of toys called Titans, and why is the largest "normal" class called Leader when leaders are rarely ever used?). No one had issues adapting to deluxes being relabeled Warriors for nuRiD. This is pretty much the same deal. Except that this comes with a very hefty price hike. I think that is what is twisting knickers with some fans rather than what they're called, in my opinion. -Ralph Personally that's part of what's doing it for me. 'Here's the same thing you bought a couple of years ago in a different colour for double the price.' I got Leader Grimlock for less than £15 last time. In fact that's the bugger that started me collecting shortly before my birthday. 2 years later and £10k+ in the hole and I'm still here. How did that happen? How did a movie mold start me collecting? |
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Post by Toph on Mar 18, 2017 19:20:18 GMT
I haven't seen or heard about any price, period. So I can't comment on that, only what's obvious.
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 18, 2017 19:44:30 GMT
In the new premier packaging the Delxues are $20 and Voyagers $30. Which for us over here means more than a straight equivalent. Probably £22-£25 for Deluxes and Voyagers will be over £30.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 18, 2017 21:39:54 GMT
Except that this comes with a very hefty price hike. I think that is what is twisting knickers with some fans rather than what they're called, in my opinion. -Ralph Personally that's part of what's doing it for me. 'Here's the same thing you bought a couple of years ago in a different colour for double the price.' I got Leader Grimlock for less than £15 last time. In fact that's the bugger that started me collecting shortly before my birthday. 2 years later and £10k+ in the hole and I'm still here. How did that happen? How did a movie mould start me collecting? I think it's when you try something that's been on your radar but not been fully into it or not into it for a while and you try it and think: "I like that" and want more. Oddly, sometimes when you have experienced more of whatever it is, the first thing doesn't seem as good, perhaps because experience has deepened. -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 18, 2017 21:45:23 GMT
I haven't seen or heard about any price, period. So I can't comment on that, only what's obvious. I may be misremembering, but I think RFC commented on US prices rising for the Movie line: deluxes up to $20, voyagers up to $30. In the UK, deluxes were a steady £10 (though some shops tried selling Animated deluxes for £12) for many years until 2012 when Generations deluxes (or the small amount we got) were £13. IIRC that continued through to DOTM. From Combiner Wars onwards, deluxes have shot up to £16-23 (depending on the shop). For the 'premium' TLK toys, Argos in the UK has deluxes listed as £25 and Voyagers for £33, which is another huge jump! By comparison, TR Voyagers are around £25-27 (depending on the store) What's happening in the UK the last 5 years is that Transformers has moved into the more luxury, ie 'expensive' toy market, which has coincided with falling incomes across the country. I have no data as to whether overall UK sales have went down or up during this period, however. -Ralph |
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Post by Toph on Mar 18, 2017 22:01:57 GMT
I've been expecting a price hike to $20 for some time now.
I became oddly at peace with that when I realized that the equivalent toys from other lines (Marvel Legends, DCUC/Multiverse, other similar 6" articulated action figures) have been in the $20 ballpark for a few years now, and even at $20, a deluxe TF is still a better deal than them.
Though I still think TF should have a scale down. Bring back scouts as the "new" deluxe, by being the main focus and backbone of the line. characters like Movie Bumblebee, while "voyager" characters like Ironhide get pushed into deluxe, and Optimus and Starscream for voyagers.
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 18, 2017 22:10:23 GMT
I knew I had £33 in my head from somewhere, I forgot the Argos listings.
I do agree with CJ though. Bit of extra paint and Deluxes being the same price as 6 inch Marvel Legends or Black series - the Transformers still look like good value to me.
I know your argument is that the price rise has been rapid, Doc, but has it been the same for other lines? What was a Legends figure five years ago?
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Post by Toph on Mar 18, 2017 22:31:12 GMT
Well over here the earliest new legends (not sure if they're five years old yet?) were $10, and came with an accessory that tried to pass as a minicon.
Then they dropped the accessory "minicon" at the start of CW, but didn't raise the price. Though price fluxuates more recently, bouncing between $10-$12.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 18, 2017 23:28:41 GMT
I knew I had £33 in my head from somewhere, I forgot the Argos listings. I do agree with CJ though. Bit of extra paint and Deluxes being the same price as 6 inch Marvel Legends or Black series - the Transformers still look like good value to me. For me they aren't good value as the plastic quality is inferior to circa 2014 and I'm not seeing any extra paint apps, with stickers now reappearing and many toys feeling light with lots more voids than pre-2012. I still think plenty of Transformers are good fun toys but I feel I am getting much less at a much higher cost. For me, Lego represents far better value for money. I tend to only buy Transformers when they're on promotion/sale now. I also am far more selective due to my feelings regarding quality v pricepoints so buy significantly fewer a year than I used to. I vote with my wallet. I didn't buy RID Warriors when they were £18 but when Asdaland reduced them to £12 I bought a couple and enjoyed them. I thought they were worth £12 in the current market but no way in heck would they have been worth £18. -Ralph |
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 19, 2017 7:51:00 GMT
For me they aren't good value as the plastic quality is inferior to circa 2014 and I'm not seeing any extra paint apps, with stickers now reappearing and many toys feeling light with lots more voids than pre-2012. Yes, but you're talking about the current Generations figures. In this case we're talking about the premier movie line, which *appears* to have a platinum type level of quality finish from the photos we've seen so far. That's why I'd like to get one to see if that's the case - if so, then I can kinda see where the price rise is coming from, if they're just the same as the previous uses of the moulds then we'd certainly have reason for complaint. |
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,057
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Post by primenova on Mar 19, 2017 9:20:00 GMT
If you search Transformers on argos all the generations & movie toys have gone & only get RID/rescuebots
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 19, 2017 9:54:40 GMT
For me they aren't good value as the plastic quality is inferior to circa 2014 and I'm not seeing any extra paint apps, with stickers now reappearing and many toys feeling light with lots more voids than pre-2012. Yes, but you're talking about the current Generations figures. In this case we're talking about the premier movie line, which *appears* to have a platinum type level of quality finish from the photos we've seen so far. That's why I'd like to get one to see if that's the case - if so, then I can kinda see where the price rise is coming from, if they're just the same as the previous uses of the moulds then we'd certainly have reason for complaint. I'm not convinced a price hike of over a fiver is justified by extra paint. Bung in extra weapons or use better plastic or have less hollow spaces if there's a price rise that large! 'Platinum' is to just a way to charge consumers vastly more money to accept what used to be standard in the first place. These may very well be nice toys. We shall see. But I'm not paying £25 for a deluxe. I'll wait for sales or buy some cheaper Lego instead. -Ralph |
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