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Post by browny87 on Feb 11, 2017 13:09:19 GMT
i think this series has involved a helluva lot of work from the new guys, the recolouring cant have been easy.
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Feb 11, 2017 19:28:17 GMT
#5 must contain more than WW 0-6 because I just looked at the tpb & it is thin. Also Don did splash pages in it out of order so they need to place cover image in to make the page count 25 pages. But didn't see the error in the DW tpb i've got.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 12, 2017 7:00:34 GMT
Argh! I was just enjoying the newly coloured content of issue #3 (we should stop calling them recoloured - you can't recolour something that has never been coloured), and then I thought too much about the choice of content and it broke my brain.
The Christmas story out of order at the start of the issue (featuring Sandstorm alive in a volume that comes after 'Time Wars' in which he dies) is clearly just there to distract continuity geeks from the fact that 'Two Megatrons' has not been included between 'Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire' and the Pretender Classics origin. Where on Earth _are_ they going to put the story in which real-Megatron kills Straxus-Megatron if not between the story that shows Straxus-Megatron arrive on Cybertron and the final story with real Megatron at large on Cybertron?
Or are they going to leave it out altogether?
How are new readers supposed to make sense of a newly arrived Megatron and one who claims to have been hiding out on Cybertron for years, in the same book without the story that explains the differences?
Argh.
Martin
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Feb 12, 2017 8:23:05 GMT
Should be in v17 but under a flashback.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 12, 2017 8:35:15 GMT
It makes no sense.
Do you think maybe it was intended to go in issue #3 but the colouring wasn't done so they stuck #198 in instead?
Martin
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Post by Kingoji on Feb 12, 2017 15:59:51 GMT
Bove has made a couple of Furman-requested edits to some of the already coloured Raiders pages for sake of overall cohesiveness, which I suppose will get him some unwarranted complaints.
In answer to the above, he colours the pages in the order Hachette request them. Two Megatrons is on his current to do list, but there are a couple others for him to do before it. So it's certainly not because he was running late or anything.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 12, 2017 16:15:31 GMT
I think the colouring for Survivors is excellent, but dislike the Race with the Devil colouring (with all due respect to the artists, of course). I just think the style isn't suited for the US style. It was designed originally to be coloured UK style, and doing it US style is a complete construction. I mean, it's well done, it just looks wrong to my eyes.
It's also a shame Hatchette didn't take out the 'last time' page borders, which also weren't designed as part of the original art.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 12, 2017 16:24:50 GMT
Bove has made a couple of Furman-requested edits to some of the already coloured Raiders pages for sake of overall cohesiveness, which I suppose will get him some unwarranted complaints. I guess it depends on context. I mean Furman being the original writer gives him more legitimacy in that. But then again I think of the George Lucas Star Wars special editions! As long as it's sane and sensible and not stuff like inserting multiple references to Fun Pub multiverses, I'd be happy. But then again, other 'sane' edits, like the American US reprints recolouring Soundwave to blue and giving him a faceplate instead of a mouth make me furious! I trust JPB to do right by us. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 12, 2017 16:32:31 GMT
JP's work in issue #3 was all excellent in my opinion (unlike the poor IDW recolours of the US strips which already prevent the series from being a 'definitive' reprint). I was careful of my wording not to imply late delivery of commissioned work but rather a poor editorial choice in printing stories out of what is clearly the correct order perhaps because they haven't had time to produce all the coloured strips yet. There are plenty of full colour stories they could have printed first - there was no need to make that volume issue #3 if the stories needed to make it coherent weren't yet ready.
I would however take issue with the suggestion that long-term readers being unhappy with new edits is necessarily 'unwarranted' (provided any complaints are directed at the decision-maker rather than the workman). Particularly if it is to try to retcon UK strips to match RG1. (I hope it isn't.) IDW have already done enough damage trying to fix what wasn't broken.
I'm not being picky for myself, but for new readers who I personally feel deserve to experience the original stories rather than ones that have been tinkered with - except where a significant improvement is made such as by colouring something that was originally intended to be coloured but never was.
And pointing out the omission of 'Two Megatrons' isn't really being picky - it's a massive hole in that volume's story.
Martin
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Post by Bogatan on Feb 12, 2017 17:15:59 GMT
I think Furman has said the choice of issues in issue 3 was to do with page count. 198 being a relatively stand alone single issue story (from vague vague memory) was deemed a suitable gap filler. Or its the other way asround and Underbase saga and Time wars wil lbe one volume with out the space for 198 in the middle so was bumped to the next available volume.
Minor fixes I'll be fine with (forget lucas and his special editions, just look at the remastered TOS and TNG) but hope for no meddling with to story beyond running order and then only if it cant be helped.
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 12, 2017 18:53:14 GMT
It will always come down to page count. The sections (folded stitched groups of pages) that make up each volume will have set permutations for page count numbers, so filling those precisely is always going to mean a bit of rearranging. Otherwise you end up with redundant pages to fill at the end.
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Feb 12, 2017 20:02:44 GMT
re #198. I always read this pre #194 because it is Optimus learning why he risks his life to save the Earth, so this flows into Time wars then Underbase saga. They could have printed Prime Bomb instead. or Dreadwing down & Chain gang
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Post by Kingoji on Feb 13, 2017 14:03:17 GMT
The edits to the already coloured Raiders are very minor (like, a single panel if I recall) and are to better match what came later in the UK material. Things that didn't match in the first place are now going to match. However other things that were wrong in the story are being kept wrong depending on how much of a presence that error had.
My comment about unwarranted complaints was directed more at the members of the fanbase who tend to freak when archive material isn't represented exactly as-was.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 13, 2017 15:40:57 GMT
Will the reprints include little Micromaster silhouettes??
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Post by Benn on Feb 13, 2017 16:36:18 GMT
Oh I hope so.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 13, 2017 18:00:43 GMT
I seem to remember a coloured panel where Guardian was coloured purple rather than yellow, so I'm guessing that might be what Simon wants fixed, which would be OK, though it could have been taken as a purple-for-character-in-background rather than purple-for-character-who-is-actually-purple.
Am I remembering the story correctly?
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 13, 2017 18:25:31 GMT
Will the reprints include little Micromaster silhouettes?? I hope so. -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 17, 2017 8:08:44 GMT
May or may not be related, but Mr Bove is asking on FB if anyone has access to The Complete Works, Part 2.
-Ralph
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Post by inflatabledalek on Feb 17, 2017 12:11:19 GMT
Ive got scans of the whole thing, if anyone wants to act as an go-between I'll be happy to zap him anything he needs.
That's a good call on Guardian's colour, I was trying to think of an easy one panel continuity fix on that story and of course, the most obvious one for a colourist didn't occur to me. I think that's entirely fair within the remit of producing a full colour version for the first time.
EDIT: Or I could just approach him on twitter myself like a grown up...
Double Edit: Tweet sent! Perhaps they want the alternate last page for the bonus features? In which case the altered page with Geoff Senior art from the first one might be of interest as well...
Or it's nothing to do with this series at all and I'm over thinking.
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Post by browny87 on Feb 17, 2017 12:54:49 GMT
its Mr Furmn who needs it, and JP is helping him out! it is for DEFG1 (as furman is calling it) and he has what he needs , but has said he may need moer help in the future!
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 17, 2017 13:04:49 GMT
I hope this is an effort to include the different ending from Complete Works Part II as well as what was printed in US #4.
-Ralph
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Post by inflatabledalek on Feb 17, 2017 13:24:27 GMT
Cool he found what he wanted. This gives me renewed hope they'll be looking to cover some of the changes made to the UK dialogue by the UK team after all (I suppose the big one needed to make sense of things reading both series in order is Gone But Not Forgotten).
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Post by jameso on Feb 17, 2017 13:49:55 GMT
Hearts of Steel is included? In a volume with actual in continuity issues? Not how I would have done it.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 17, 2017 15:15:20 GMT
It's more the fact Hearts of Steel is in there and not G2.
That pisses me off.
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Post by Benn on Feb 17, 2017 15:22:01 GMT
It's wrong, pure and simple.
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Post by inflatabledalek on Feb 17, 2017 15:39:50 GMT
It's more the fact Hearts of Steel is in there and not G2. That pisses me off. Yeah, especially if Hachette/Furman are assuming readers can cope with two completely different continuities in the same book without being confused. That means there should have been no problem including two completely different continuations to the Marvel series as separate books (well, three if they include the Annual text stories in the series. Well, four depending on how you count Peace...). I'm not a fan of Hearts of Steel but I don't begrudge its inclusion (by its very nature we're all going to have volumes we're not so keen on), it just feels a bit "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh G2". |
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Post by jameso on Feb 17, 2017 17:27:20 GMT
If it was up to me I'd be doing the whole bang - G2, Ghosts, the IDW live action movie stuff, Beast Wars, everything. But doing Hearts of Steel and not G2, yeah, bollocks. And if they really want to do Hearts of Steel do it surely in some kind of self contained 'what if' book with the animated Movie adaptation or something. Come to think of it, are they doing the animated movie adaptation?
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Post by Benn on Feb 17, 2017 17:30:37 GMT
Oh yeah, there's two adaptions of the Animated movie that'll need to go in, isn't there?
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Feb 17, 2017 21:31:00 GMT
But the Movie doesn't happen. RG1 happens after 2005 & The Movie doesn't happen. So Galvatron can't go back for v6 because 1991-2012 Megatron was on Earth all the time.
Hearts of steel being printed because they'll be doing Infestation 2. So that just covers 6 issues.
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Post by Kingoji on Feb 17, 2017 23:25:28 GMT
The movie does happen. The timeline is established with many branches. If the movie didn't happen there would be no Target: 2006, nor any of the following future material. And the future material set after Time Wars is just another different branch. So is Earthforce, RG1 and G2. The movie may not apply to all of them, but is definitely vital to most.
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